If you want to change the people in parliament who are voting on these deals, then you need a GE. That is the premise.

 

Of course, the EU is not going to offer us much more than we have so...

 

I suppose another GE could see the DUP/Con coalition break up, which would be more than welcome.

Yes, not really a surprise.

 

Some classic quotes over the last few days.

 

"Theresa May has fallen on her sword.... and missed". :lol:

 

and from Yanis Varoufakis: "Whether you're a Brexiteer or Remainer, this is a deal a nation signs only when it has been defeated in war. It's not a deal which is fit for purpose for any sovereign country." !!!

I also had a good chuckle at Sturgeon’s missed sword line. She’s been on fire throughout this farce

We must be the laughing stock of the world at the moment with this mess.

Latest news from our “You couldn’t make it up” correspondent. A group of Tory MPs have arranged a meeting with trade experts next week. The purpose? So that the MPs can learn what the Customs Union is. Yes, they are admitting that they hadn’t got a clue what they have been talking about for the last three years.

 

No, I haven’t accidentally posted this a couple days early.

Best of luck, hope it goes well, hopefully just a routine procedure and you'll be home pretty quickly!

 

I'm back! :)

Meanwhile, some news you may have missed as even the BBC hasn’t bothered to report it. Vote Leave has dropped its appeal against the Electoral Commission’s finding that it broke electoral law. Anyone else think the timing was meant to coincide with the time it became too late to do much about it?

Meanwhile, some news you may have missed as even the BBC hasn’t bothered to report it. Vote Leave has dropped its appeal against the Electoral Commission’s finding that it broke electoral law. Anyone else think the timing was meant to coincide with the time it became too late to do much about it?

 

We are apparently still in the EU, despite passing the 29th (I don't think a general anaesthetic could make me miss that much). ;)

We are apparently still in the EU, despite passing the 29th (I don't think a general anaesthetic could make me miss that much). ;)

That’s my point. The plan was to announce it when it was too late, but Evers overtook them. Here’s hoping it turns out to have been a massive own goal by the Quitters.

Anyone think there's a danger of a civil war in England over all this if things go further downhill?

We are apparently still in the EU, despite passing the 29th (I don't think a general anaesthetic could make me miss that much). ;)

 

Just wish this hadn't been the week the clocks go forward, depriving me of an extra hour's sleep... :mellow:

Anyone think there's a danger of a civil war in England over all this if things go further downhill?

 

Barely - it's a very small minority of people who would be in this camp and they'd struggle to organise a piss-up in a brewery. Mostly old, grump baby boomers and your extreme right-wing nutjobs.

Barely - it's a very small minority of people who would be in this camp and they'd struggle to organise a piss-up in a brewery. Mostly old, grump baby boomers and your extreme right-wing nutjobs.

 

Glad to see you're not stereotyping Leavers... :rolleyes:

Glad to see you're not stereotyping Leavers... :rolleyes:

 

Lots of different people voted Leave - I'm on about the vocal ones here. I've seen nothing across any form of media across the weekend that changes this stereotype for me. Infact it just intensifies it when you have Tommy bloody Robinson speaking at an organised event.

The ones who would seriously consider starting civil unrest over this would I imagine fall into those category. Particularly 'extreme right-wing nutjobs', who are incredibly dangerous people.

 

The first reason a civil war is unlikely is simple geographic maths. Remainers live alongside Leavers for the most part. While several areas were 60-40, there's no real battle lines to be drawn anywhere. Now you could imagine perhaps a great insurgency against the government for putting their livelihoods at risk that bypasses geographic lines and becomes more of a guerilla action, but then you have to consider who is capable of being in such a war and how many of the population are willing to die over this issue.

 

Then you have to imagine what the starting point is and which side. I'm going to use the recent protests from each one to help measure this. In the event of a hard Brexit, perhaps a huge Remain protest like the one last week could go awry? Possibly but all reports of that one say that it was good-natured, I don't think Remain has anywhere near the critical mass of people who would get violent outside of an actual apocalypse caused by Leave. And as much as I'm a dirty EU-loving firebrand, I don't think leaving will be so disastrous that society breaks down. On the other hand, would Leavers do it on a protest that turns violent on revocation? Probably... not. The... much smaller March for Brexit also was from some accounts, mostly peaceful and those who did disturb the peace by being racist were told to stop by the more sane Leave attendees.

We have the hardcore leavers, who are fewer in number, and then those who voted Leave to 'stick it to the government' out of desperation at their situation being shit. The former would really care about a revocation, but like Rooney said, they don't have the numbers. The latter meet the desperate requirement to actually start a war, but I don't believe they are unified by any cause and it's certainly not Brexit right now. While they may yet pose a more serious problem for the government if it doesn't start helping the poorest in society, I don't think cancelling Brexit would be the catalyst that sets them off.

 

In summary, unlikely. Britain's common people have no history of revolution to use as a precedent either.

I think the feeling of not being listened to/ignored will be hijacked by the far-right, a movement that has already been growing in recent years right across the planet. We've seen that already with Tommy Robinson and UKIP and let's not forget that during the 2016 referendum a Labour MP was murdered by a far-right extremist. I don't think civil war is the outcome but civil unrest is entirely possible, there were damaging riots as recently as August 2011 across many cities so it is not something to just dismiss as insignificant.

I do believe that far-right groupings are some of the most dangerous groups right now. The real bad ones are insidious in attempting to appear reasonable, constantly forcing their opponents to act as the reasonable ones while they themselves take no such measures. Certain Youtube channels and other means of online communication give them a dangerously high reach to people who clearly don't have the critical thinking necessary to see that they are being fed lies.

 

Civil unrest is certainly possible, but I don't think it'll be any bigger than the 2011 riots at their height. I feel that the far-right is actually very maligned and unaccepted in the UK. Maybe I underestimate their reach in Britain, but compared to what I know of the movements in America and various ones across Europe, Britain's far-right seem more on the fringe at this moment. There are no serious fascists, UKIP are neutered, and any of them that are hiding in the Conservative party are just that.

I do believe that far-right groupings are some of the most dangerous groups right now. The real bad ones are insidious in attempting to appear reasonable, constantly forcing their opponents to act as the reasonable ones while they themselves take no such measures. Certain Youtube channels and other means of online communication give them a dangerously high reach to people who clearly don't have the critical thinking necessary to see that they are being fed lies.

 

Civil unrest is certainly possible, but I don't think it'll be any bigger than the 2011 riots at their height. I feel that the far-right is actually very maligned and unaccepted in the UK. Maybe I underestimate their reach in Britain, but compared to what I know of the movements in America and various ones across Europe, Britain's far-right seem more on the fringe at this moment. There are no serious fascists, UKIP are neutered, and any of them that are hiding in the Conservative party are just that.

 

The far-right in the UK does seem very niche, but I think what's dangerous is the fact that often people can be very swayed by what happens in the media and to what the likes of the nut-jobs are saying. I think it helps that largely a lot of people see the likes of Farage, UKIP and Tommy Robinson as joke figures. Even some of the more ardulent Brexiteers that are secret UKIPers are going that way in the media too. I guess the one dangerous thing to consider is this current UKIP party is more EDL than UKIP. If there was a general election and there was not a majority, but worry would be a potential Tory-UKIP.

 

The irony being I suspect there will only be real civil unrest if there is a no-deal Brexit. I suspect the major inconvinence, uncertaintiy and panic could cause some civil unrest.

The Revoke Article 50 petition has now reached six million signatures.

The Revoke Article 50 petition has now reached six million signatures.

 

And?

 

Surely you don't expect the gov't to revoke Article 50 on the basis of it? :huh:

 

At the moment they can't even decide to make a cup of tea! :lol:

 

I signed it 10 times from different accounts :lol: