Why are you just regurgitating government propaganda without thought or comment?

 

 

It's a news story that made the papers today. It's not particularly government propaganda. Frost's speech has been widely reported.

Edited February 18, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

How about you instead post the news that the propaganda piece above is deflecting from? The piece that confirms that HMG will not be punishing it’s own opening position paper after all presumably because it either a) doesn’t exist or b) contradicts every public statement they’ve made since 2014.

 

 

Yes I know they're doing that. It's so Boris can keep his cards close to his chest and not let the EU know what his bottom lines are which seems a good idea really. You never enter a card game with them knowing your hand already do you?

Edited February 18, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

It is categorically none of those things.

 

The EU is being very transparent about its position. It’s papers were published this evening. The EU has been transparent all along and thus far has won every step of the way.

 

You can’t hold your cards close to your chest when you have no cards to play. The EU are capable of reading the news and watching TV. They see everything that has been said by propaganda merchant after propaganda merchant. They know that businesses are threatening to leave. They know what the demands of the SMMT, Trade Unions, CBA, Governments of Scotland, NI and Wales are all saying. The only thing there is to hide, is the UK government hiding it’s true agenda from the British people and how much damage their ideological pursuit will cause the country

The Government last night announced their new immigration policy for everyone from 1/1/21`and it will be fairly tough. Apparently discussed on last night's BBC2 Newsnight. Someone said the new points system is a bit like that used now for PIP and ESA benefits.

 

 

70 points are required.

 

Essential: 20 points for having a sponsored job (not self employed), 20 points for that job being at appropriate skill level, 10 points for speaking English

 

Additional points graded by salary, having a Msc, PhD or job being in designated shortage such as nursing. So who decides your job is in shortage, or that you are working at an appropriate skill level? Sounds like even more paperwork for employers and red-tape bureaucracy.

 

One big standout is that someone self employed won't be admissible to the country with this points system since that won't count as being employed. Seems to target self employed builders, plumbers etc.

Edited February 19, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

Non-EU "self-employed" people never had any legal grounds to obtain a work visa anyway..

 

Not much seems to be changing really. Same bureaucracy but with a points system.

Edited February 19, 20205 yr by *CENSORED*

There's also a special job list that shows which ones are in shortage at the moment. Statistics decide that.

The Government last night announced their new immigration policy for everyone from 1/1/21`and it will be fairly tough. Apparently discussed on last night's BBC2 Newsnight. Someone said the new points system is a bit like that used now for PIP and ESA benefits.

70 points are required.

 

Essential: 20 points for having a sponsored job (not self employed), 20 points for that job being at appropriate skill level, 10 points for speaking English

 

Additional points graded by salary, having a Msc, PhD or job being in designated shortage such as nursing. So who decides your job is in shortage, or that you are working at an appropriate skill level? Sounds like even more paperwork for employers and red-tape bureaucracy.

 

One big standout is that someone self employed won't be admissible to the country with this points system since that won't count as being employed. Seems to target self employed builders, plumbers etc.

If EU countries reciprocate, I would struggle to get enough points to work their teaching English as a foreign language. To make it worse, the Home Secretary is still boasting about taking that opportunity away from me.

There's also a special job list that shows which ones are in shortage at the moment. Statistics decide that.

Yeah this. Most countries operate one, it’s fairly normal. My concern is what the government will classify as a job that is of sufficient skill.

 

What the Tories often deem to be low skill labour is actually where we are most desperate for migrant workers. Eg Farming, Care Homes, Nursing, Cleaning. Many of the jobs natives consider to be beneath them

If EU countries reciprocate, I would struggle to get enough points to work their teaching English as a foreign language. To make it worse, the Home Secretary is still boasting about taking that opportunity away from me.

Unfortunately from what I understand the EU is approaching this on the basis that anything the UK does to its citizens will be fully reciprocated by the EU to UK citizens.

Unfortunately from what I understand the EU is approaching this on the basis that anything the UK does to its citizens will be fully reciprocated by the EU to UK citizens.

 

And that is completely understandble. :(

If EU countries reciprocate, I would struggle to get enough points to work their teaching English as a foreign language. To make it worse, the Home Secretary is still boasting about taking that opportunity away from me.

 

On a related side note. Have you considered maybe looking at Asia? Countries like China, Vietnam, Korea are crying out for ESL teachers. The usual requirements are have a passport from a native English speaking country(so being EU is not a requirement), hold a TEFL or CELTA and a degree(in anything), and whilst I don´t have a crystal ball, I don´t see the requirements for a work permit changing in the several years at least as they are crying out for competent teachers.

 

Or does it have to be Europe?

Edited February 19, 20205 yr by mald487

Quite, Asia is the best market for TEFL teachers, that's where I am right now. Actually the Middle East tends to have the highest salaries but China's not far behind and what with the current situation will likely have a shortage once coronavirus clears up. Japan/SK are competitive and SE Asia is great for younger workers looking for a year or two out.

 

I think they aren't so great with giving older workers contracts though, which might run Simon into some trouble.

 

Teaching in the EU in that industry will now be great for Irish citizens, as they'll technically have first pick, although I imagine the industry will increasingly use non-native speakers within the EU now as quite a large part of Europe has a traditionally good English proficiency anyway.

 

I mean, it's representative of the whole issue though. Lots of people will want to (and I'd argue should, for the experience) live abroad at some point in their career. Now the opportunity to do so in the countries closest to them - uprooting yourself and moving to the other side of the world isn't for everyone - has been highly hampered for the British.

Quite, Asia is the best market for TEFL teachers, that's where I am right now. Actually the Middle East tends to have the highest salaries but China's not far behind and what with the current situation will likely have a shortage once coronavirus clears up. Japan/SK are competitive and SE Asia is great for younger workers looking for a year or two out.

 

I think they aren't so great with giving older workers contracts though, which might run Simon into some trouble.

 

Teaching in the EU in that industry will now be great for Irish citizens, as they'll technically have first pick, although I imagine the industry will increasingly use non-native speakers within the EU now as quite a large part of Europe has a traditionally good English proficiency anyway.

 

I mean, it's representative of the whole issue though. Lots of people will want to (and I'd argue should, for the experience) live abroad at some point in their career. Now the opportunity to do so in the countries closest to them - uprooting yourself and moving to the other side of the world isn't for everyone - has been highly hampered for the British.

 

 

Yeah I know there is a preference for younger teachers in some schools. However, in my language center we had guys in their 50s(I want to say early 60s as well but I´m not sure, and if you have experience to boot a lot of school will put that first.

 

But yes, I agree with your main point. The opportunity to go and live and work somewhere outside of your comfort zone has just been made significantly long winded for many, especially those who don´t want to move to the opposite side of the world or teaching English(it really isn´t for everyone :lol: )

 

The proposed system of requiring a high salary, job offer, English proficiency etc. demands that the prospective migrant already be the 'ideal migrant' that they may well end up being in five years, but before having set foot in the country. It doesn't work like that in real life. Many people come with no job offer, they further develop their skills and they work their way up.

 

I don't see how the vast majority of people in their 20s in their early career as young professionals could possibly migrate under the proposed setup. As for so-called low-skilled jobs, it's an unequivocal disaster.

 

I've said this before but what Britain actually deserves isn't lowered migration but a massive brain drain of its UK-born youth.

Yes, age is a problem in some Asian countries including China.

 

One reason for preferring Europe is that I have ageing parents. I want to be able to get back here reasonably quickly (and cheaply) if necessary. Even without that extra consideration, Europe has always been my preferred destination.

The proposed system of requiring a high salary, job offer, English proficiency etc. demands that the prospective migrant already be the 'ideal migrant' that they may well end up being in five years, but before having set foot in the country. It doesn't work like that in real life. Many people come with no job offer, they further develop their skills and they work their way up.

I'd argue that it does and this is how it's always worked in the UK for people outside the EU. But of course only the very talented minds end up moving abroad for work at a young age. The rest get there by moving up the career ladder in their own field and building connections from home first.

One of the biggest problems we currently face is the ageing population which of course impacts on two of the biggest expenditures the country has, of health and social care. It would therefore be an absolutely barmy step to enforce an abstract figure for salary on immigration because it will cause such a big impact on our health and social care system to the point it probably wouldn't be able to work.

 

It's such a regressive step and incredibly worrying when both systems are already on their knees.

 

Also, it's nice when your Government says you are low skilled. I’ll put it on the CV :)

 

EDIT: just seen that nursing would be excluded. However, social care will not?! Crazy.

And that is completely understandble. :(

 

 

And pretty childish if you don't mind me saying so. :( This isn't a primary school playground game.

And pretty childish if you don't mind me saying so. :( This isn't a primary school playground game.

The irony of this coming from a Brexiteer.

And pretty childish if you don't mind me saying so. :( This isn't a primary school playground game.

I thought Johnson was in favour of primary school games. Certainly that film of last week's Cabinet meeting would suggest so.

 

When one country introduces restrictions, it is hardly a surprise if those countries on the receiving end reciprocate.