February 22, 20223 yr What can you expect the Tories to do, when they are bought and paid by the Russians anyway, especially Common Sense's Bojo the Clown?
February 22, 20223 yr What can you expect the Tories to do, when they are bought and paid by the Russians anyway, especially Common Sense's Bojo the Clown? Yes, and those of us on the left are usually smeared as 'apologists for Russia' which really sticks in the throat when you see how much dirty money the Tories are happy to accept. There is a massive difference between the powerful elite in Russia and its people, many conflate their own Russophobia and Sinophobia when discussing these matters - something that Putin and the Kremlin weaponise against the west by saying to their citizens 'see: told you they were evil and hate us'. The victim mentality is a powerful propagandist tool. As always the weak and powerless will suffer most.
February 22, 20223 yr Yes, and those of us on the left are usually smeared as 'apologists for Russia' which really sticks in the throat when you see how much dirty money the Tories are happy to accept. There is a massive difference between the powerful elite in Russia and its people, many conflate their own Russophobia and Sinophobia when discussing these matters - something that Putin and the Kremlin weaponise against the west by saying to their citizens 'see: told you they were evil and hate us'. The victim mentality is a powerful propagandist tool. As always the weak and powerless will suffer most. To be fair, there are a disappointingly large amount of "left" figures who are associated with sites like Russia Today, Grayzone, are Marxist-Leninists perhaps. They've been really playing up the 'Ukraine has far-right fascists, Russia might be justified' angle. This is probably more prevalent in America, where they attack American imperialism but cannot fathom what Russia is doing is imperialism when it clearly is.  In Britain it seems like our left is more along the lines of Stop The War types like Corbyn- and I must say Corbyn is woefully uninformed on this issue, he always was a bit weak on foreign policy but he's equated this to Iraq and called for NATO to step back... I'll take uninformed pacifists over red fascists though. Of course Russia is an evil far-right oligarchy that rules with an iron fist over its unfortunate citizens and anyone supporting them is not a true leftist by any stretch, and though I cannot see it happening I hope that somehow their hubris in this matter backfires on them.
February 22, 20223 yr Well that's unfortunate - I personally think Corbyn has always come across as well-meaning and perfectly harmless- but yeah, clearly wrong in this case. I mean, maybe if he was reflecting on the 1990 invasion of Kuwait - but I don't think so as there isn't any doubt that the first Gulf War was completely justified and thus his conclusions would not quite have been the same. I don't know why everything seems to come back to the 2003 Iraq War, it has clouded and poisoned the judgement of so many people you'd usually expect to have a decent take. Meanwhile, Peston remains DIM as ever - wonder if the penny will drop later today? @1496140100316639247
February 22, 20223 yr The biggest reaction seems to have been Germany putting the paperwork to approve NordStream2 in a pile on the desk of the Berlin immigration office. Basically guarantees that it won’t be seen again for at least 3 years And that’s it. A pipeline that isn’t even pumping gas at the moment. Everything else is toothless   But the answer is absolutely not appeasement of a war criminal. Can someone order Corbyn some books on the build up to WW2?
February 22, 20223 yr The EU is introducing sanctions against several hundred members of the Duma. The UK is introducing sanctions against *checks notes* three people.
February 22, 20223 yr Putin abosultely needs China, of course he waited till the Olympics is over. they would have been displeased. The West threatening a few oligarchs as some sort of actual incentive is more an incentive that it'll all blow over like Crimea did in Putin's eyes. He wants assurance Ukraine won't join NATO, Ukraine not giving it. Russia still controls our fuel supplies one way or another. Gas/Electric bill emails anyone about the price rises? Doubling in price?  Corbyn is and always was a deluded muppet when it comes to states like Russia and others. Happy to chit-chat and chew the cud with mild pleasantries and no actual deserved criticism. Nobody wants War. But if you don't resist loss of democracy (the least-bad system) then you shouldn't be surprised when it suddenly disappears. Unless you have nuclear weapons of course, then no-one will invade you and you have the comfort of not worrying about those that don't. I'm a pacifist, but I'm a realist too. Expecting dictators to play by the rules is insane. It's not as if we haven't had recent examples of how evil power-mad nutters are, and how gullible people are with propaganda and how easily they are persuaded over to the Dark Side.... Eurovision. Russia should not be banned. The booing in Italy from the audience will be a mild embarrassment that they will avoid by being kicked out and giving Putin another "victim-based" speech. Ukraine have already banned their own entrant for visiting the disputed region, where admittedly thousands of people have died in the last 8 years on both sides. Not to mention a plane-load of foreign tourists shot down by Russian-backed separatists, which everyone seems to have forgotten about already. Russia's been responsible for deaths for years and the West did bugger-all about it, and interfering in democracy, and a puppet boob of a US President that licked his arse, so it's hardly a shock that threats about nothing much of consequence didn't exactly work. Plus all Western governments in Europe are going to have inflation problems and voters pissed off, so Putin gets to sow discontent amongst the Western alliance again, it's always been his aim and his game.       Â
February 22, 20223 yr The EU is introducing sanctions against several hundred members of the Duma. The UK is introducing sanctions against *checks notes* three people. Lightly better than nothing but only lightly
February 22, 20223 yr The United States has come out swinging   @1496218939847847951  So basically everyone has done more than the UK. Johnson is corrupt and needs to be removed, to a jail cell, immediately
February 23, 20223 yr The Republican party in the USA including Donald Trump seem to be almost exclusively praising Putin. Fox News has more venon for Justin Trudeau than Putin for example.
February 23, 20223 yr The United States has come out swinging @1496218939847847951 So basically everyone has done more than the UK. Johnson is corrupt and needs to be removed, to a jail cell, immediately The UK's sanctions are pityful. I'm sure they will do more in the future, but I think that will only come from pressure within the Tory MPs who are not tied up to the oligarchs. Like others have stated, there's room for being a pacifist but Putin has clearly lost his head. He's a madman and as long as he has China behind him, he probably feels invincible. If he gets hold of Ukraine then who knows what he might decide to do next. His obsession with Ukraine is mind-boggling.Â
February 23, 20223 yr Well it’s not mind boggling looking into the recent history and the end of the Cold War but he clearly doesn’t care now he’s in his 60s and is prepared to do what it takes to get a legacy and that makes him a very volitile character!
February 23, 20223 yr Well it’s not mind boggling looking into the recent history and the end of the Cold War but he clearly doesn’t care now he’s in his 60s and is prepared to do what it takes to get a legacy and that makes him a very volitile character! Well yes, he's always been unhighed, but this just makes no sense from a financial or strategic point of view. I can't see it being of any gain to the Kremlin, other than to cemet Putin's ego and his own legacy. Tje West is so compromised by Russian money that he feels he can do what he wants - I guess this is a major POV why lots of people are against Chinese influence too, as in 10-20 years time it could massively compromise the West.
February 23, 20223 yr I would say dominance of the Black Sea would be good for Russia geopolitically and economically and the movement of NATO and westward democracy is not what Russia wants on its borders as their political culture is completely different to the west.
February 23, 20223 yr I would say dominance of the Black Sea would be good for Russia geopolitically and economically and the movement of NATO and westward democracy is not what Russia wants on its borders as their political culture is completely different to the west. It would be very good for Ukraine though. Zelensky seems to be using this crisis to leverage some further security guarantees and by god I hope he gets them. Ukraine could be so much more than the dirt poor poverty-stricken nation it is had it been admitted into NATO and the EU like the Baltic states had. And yes, I am placing the blame of that at foreign policy experts and diplomats afraid of offending Russia because of belief in geopolitical realism as you describe. Economic interdependence helps prevent wars. A more prosperous Ukraine wouldn't be having this happening.
February 23, 20223 yr I dont think its worth the world worrying about those two regions in Ukraine Russia has invaded, I mean most of the population there is pro-Russian probably anyway (correct me if I am wrong). I just hope any pro-Ukrainians have got out of the invaded regions already. I dont think Putin will invade any other part of Ukraine, as he will face lots of hostility there from pro-Ukranians. Edited February 23, 20223 yr by Ring Kollo
February 23, 20223 yr Putin has been sounding more and more unhinged by the day, and is despwrate to restore the USSR-sized Russia. He eants the ehole lot, plus whatever else he can get away with. He knows he is untouchable, thanks to nukes plus Russia, plus his threats to satellites and underwater cables.
February 23, 20223 yr Oh no, the violation of another countries territorial integrity is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the world to worry about.  That might be the worst take I’ve ever read in this section of the forum
February 23, 20223 yr Oh no, the violation of another countries territorial integrity is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the world to worry about. That might be the worst take I’ve ever read in this section of the forum I meant its not worth the world worrying too much. I mean it is still is very wrong of Russia to do this, there should have been a referendum in the two regions about which country they want to be part of.
February 23, 20223 yr @1496587959881113600 Please remember that Russian tanks reached Tbilisi the last time this particular playbook was cracked open. If you think Putin is stopping at the current ceasefire line you’re either incredibly naive or, well…
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