I wish I could have moved back home for lockdown. It is in a different country, but still, it would've been a much better situation.

 

Unfortunately I had to stay here for hospital appointments in April...that I then ended up having over the phone anyway. Yay.

Each country will have their own strategy and timelines, it’s a useful benchmark but every country is going to have a different set of economic challenges. Take football for example- France and the Netherlands have outright banned it until September. England, Germany and Spain have taken a different approach and are trying to get it back sooner. It’s just different strategies. We were hit much harder than Ireland in terms of the outbreak but some of the rules they are relaxing, we already have relaxed so it’s just going to be different.

 

The biggest risk is that things are done too fast and too close together. I think from a strategic point of view the government might want to get certain industries such as construction, retail, manufacturing back on track and continue to furlough other industries such as aviation, tourism and hospitality as clearly those are going to need a lot more TLC..

I honestly I am so confused by countries allowing football games to continue. The most obvious cash above health example in my opinion.

 

There are so many risks involved and it is such an unneeded addition to society in these times. Imagine closing bars, yet allowing football matches to go on (without viewers but still)

I honestly I am so confused by countries allowing football games to continue. The most obvious cash above health example in my opinion.

 

There are so many risks involved and it is such an unneeded addition to society in these times. Imagine closing bars, yet allowing football matches to go on (without viewers but still)

 

I agree with you on this point, we can have zero contact with family and friends but football is allowed to go ahead it is shameful and breaches our human rights.

But in that case you can blame the whole world, as nobody paid attention. It's 99.9% clear that China tried to hide how bad things were to the rest of the world initially. The fact is while Chinese doctors may ahve said how bad the virus was, Government's negotiate with the State Authorities and not the Science/Medical community, so unless the line was coming from the China it is unlikely any adjustments will have been made.

 

I don't have a problem with blaming most of the world's politicians - it's peer-group-pressure waiting to see what others do first, trying to avoid doing something unpopular that will harm the economy, self-delusion, and a history of cutbacks until virtually no-one was prepared to deal with the reality of a pandemic when it's been on the cards for decades that there would be one.

 

Pessimists don't get you killed, optimists do. Most politicians are optimistic to the point that they have no grip on reality and just automatically blank out things they'd prefer not to think about while dealing with day-to-day problems that don't kill you but might lose them votes.

 

Blaming (rightly in this case) the country of origin of a disease does not in any way mean you can ignore objective reality in your own country. All governments have medical expert advisors who should have their finger on the button of pandemics and be prepared for one, it's their most important job bar none. If you hire morons or Yes Men (and Women) it's your own fault for not hiring people who know what they need to talk about and who are prepared to tell you unpleasant facts even if you'd really rather think about something else. Yes Men (and Women) also get you killed. I have zero sympathy and zero time for people who don't do their job properly when something this important is on the table. I've spent my entire working life observing politicians (albeit local ones) and people in positions of power, and I know how human nature works, and how some idiots blag their ways into jobs far in excess of their capabilities. I nominate President Trump and rest my case......

 

I'll grant some nations are better-prepared than others, though, and have a degree of ability to do what they need to do, while others flail about like headless chickens because they've dropped themselves right in it through short-termist thinking and their own arrogant self-belief that they are right, it'll never happen, just moaning old gits looking on the dark side creating a climate of fear. To which, the old gits can now turn round and say "I told you so and you didn't listen".

 

Everybody I work with knows my jovial cynicism (I've outlasted all the politicians and leaders over the years), and also know that I speak my mind, look for solutions to any problem even when I think it's a ridiculous decision that has caused the problem, but I always reserve the right to whisper down the line those 4 little words: "I told you so". Everybody needs to hear it now and again, it's good for the ego :D

I agree with you on this point, we can have zero contact with family and friends but football is allowed to go ahead it is shameful and breaches our human rights.

Nothing has been confirmed that football is going ahead at all.

I honestly I am so confused by countries allowing football games to continue. The most obvious cash above health example in my opinion.

 

There are so many risks involved and it is such an unneeded addition to society in these times. Imagine closing bars, yet allowing football matches to go on (without viewers but still)

 

See, I am very biased as I have vested interested in sport and particularly football, so I would love to see it return. And I think it will. If we don't try and get elite levelsport back then there is little/no money which will help grassroots sport. We are likely to be faced with clubs going out of business if we don't try. This is awful for communities in the longrun. If you can't get it up and running once the testing infastructure is in place, it's going tobe very difficult to get it running at all.

 

Plus from a logical perspective if there is stuff to keep people entertained and off the streets then it's far more likely to keep people off the streets.

 

I don't have a problem with blaming most of the world's politicians - it's peer-group-pressure waiting to see what others do first, trying to avoid doing something unpopular that will harm the economy, self-delusion, and a history of cutbacks until virtually no-one was prepared to deal with the reality of a pandemic when it's been on the cards for decades that there would be one.

 

Pessimists don't get you killed, optimists do. Most politicians are optimistic to the point that they have no grip on reality and just automatically blank out things they'd prefer not to think about while dealing with day-to-day problems that don't kill you but might lose them votes.

 

Blaming (rightly in this case) the country of origin of a disease does not in any way mean you can ignore objective reality in your own country. All governments have medical expert advisors who should have their finger on the button of pandemics and be prepared for one, it's their most important job bar none. If you hire morons or Yes Men (and Women) it's your own fault for not hiring people who know what they need to talk about and who are prepared to tell you unpleasant facts even if you'd really rather think about something else. Yes Men (and Women) also get you killed. I have zero sympathy and zero time for people who don't do their job properly when something this important is on the table. I've spent my entire working life observing politicians (albeit local ones) and people in positions of power, and I know how human nature works, and how some idiots blag their ways into jobs far in excess of their capabilities. I nominate President Trump and rest my case......

 

I'll grant some nations are better-prepared than others, though, and have a degree of ability to do what they need to do, while others flail about like headless chickens because they've dropped themselves right in it through short-termist thinking and their own arrogant self-belief that they are right, it'll never happen, just moaning old gits looking on the dark side creating a climate of fear. To which, the old gits can now turn round and say "I told you so and you didn't listen".

 

Everybody I work with knows my jovial cynicism (I've outlasted all the politicians and leaders over the years), and also know that I speak my mind, look for solutions to any problem even when I think it's a ridiculous decision that has caused the problem, but I always reserve the right to whisper down the line those 4 little words: "I told you so". Everybody needs to hear it now and again, it's good for the ego :D

 

I totally get there and I think you hit the nail on the end with the optimism comment with regards to politicians. It's the hope that always lets us down! :lol:

See, I am very biased as I have vested interested in sport and particularly football, so I would love to see it return. And I think it will. If we don't try and get elite levelsport back then there is little/no money which will help grassroots sport. We are likely to be faced with clubs going out of business if we don't try. This is awful for communities in the longrun. If you can't get it up and running once the testing infastructure is in place, it's going tobe very difficult to get it running at all.

 

Plus from a logical perspective if there is stuff to keep people entertained and off the streets then it's far more likely to keep people off the streets.

I totally get there and I think you hit the nail on the end with the optimism comment with regards to politicians. It's the hope that always lets us down! :lol:

 

I agree they need to be back up and running but I do think they need to come in conjunction with relaxation of other restrictions.

As far as the football authorities are concerned, yes money is the biggest factor. However, it all depends on whether the government gives their approval. Their motives will be different with one of the factors being the impact on public morale. There is no doubt that some people will feel that precious resources (including testing kits) will be taken away from where it is most needed while others will simply welcome the return of football as a distraction from everything else.

I agree they need to be back up and running but I do think they need to come in conjunction with relaxation of other restrictions.

 

Agreed, but it's still 5 weeks away and the landscape likely to be much different. It's clear they have been given a heads up on plans by the government (as it appears a few other industries have too) providing the case numbers go down. Horse Racing is gearing up to return too. 7th May will be interesting for sure..

 

As far as the football authorities are concerned, yes money is the biggest factor. However, it all depends on whether the government gives their approval. Their motives will be different with one of the factors being the impact on public morale. There is no doubt that some people will feel that precious resources (including testing kits) will be taken away from where it is most needed while others will simply welcome the return of football as a distraction from everything else.

 

 

I don't think testing is the issue, it's clear that we have the capacity to test and I am sure it will be opened up to more people over the coming weeks. I think the bigger issue is using health resources.

Also maybe unrelated, but maybe related, but shows a sense of perspective- I had a call with one of my Aussie friends currently living in the UK earlier. Australia has not been hit anywhere near as hard as the UK but they also have not adoptedthe furlough scheme like the UK have. So while things might be able to get back to normal quicker, loads more people have lost their jobs.

Agreed, but it's still 5 weeks away and the landscape likely to be much different. It's clear they have been given a heads up on plans by the government (as it appears a few other industries have too) providing the case numbers go down. Horse Racing is gearing up to return too. 7th May will be interesting for sure..

I don't think testing is the issue, it's clear that we have the capacity to test and I am sure it will be opened up to more people over the coming weeks. I think the bigger issue is using health resources.

 

I am quite surprised the case numbers have been so static they were 8,000 peak one day and have mostly been in the 4,000 range since. With the mass increase in testing it can only be a good sign.

 

 

Also maybe unrelated, but maybe related, but shows a sense of perspective- I had a call with one of my Aussie friends currently living in the UK earlier. Australia has not been hit anywhere near as hard as the UK but they also have not adoptedthe furlough scheme like the UK have. So while things might be able to get back to normal quicker, loads more people have lost their jobs.

The furlough scheme is one thing for which the government deserve some credit. The fact that it is relatively simple will mean that it is easier for companies who don't need the help to apply for it anyway, but it speeds up the process for companies that do need it. The things they need to look at again (in the short-term) are the people who are still left out because of the cut-off date and whether people on the minimum wage (or, perhaps, a slightly higher level) should be paid 100% of their pay rather than 80%. There should perhaps be a minimum payment as well as a maximum.

 

The big question, as with everything else, will be how to pay for it. This is going to add a huge amount to the national debt which is already a lot higher than the amount the Tories inherited ten years ago. That will be the time to look at highly profitable companies which have used the furlough scheme and how to get them to pay the money back. It may, for example, mean a higher tax on profits for any company that used the furlough scheme and/or an extra tax on dividends paid by those companies.

 

 

Yes but banning audiences will obviously anger quite a few die hard fans as well as motivate people to watch the games together. There's so much risks involved of having that 1 asymptomatic superspreader. I'm glad both Belgium and The Netherlands have banned the leagues. It'll for sure squander any goodwill towards clubs if they insist on proceeding the competition

 

The dutch football clubs have actually all got together and made pacts to support each other, the top 5 will go into europe and donate some of the proceeds, and the dutch government is very likely to to step in as well

Oops double

Where I live, people are out galavanting for the fun of it and not giving a crap about what’s going on. We need the same type of police force Spain and Italy have to put these idiots in line

How have they handled it badly post-lockdown? We literally did what most other countries in the world did whilst taking a logical step to social factors. Better airport screening should have been there post-locjdown, although I guess this was a resource factor and these ridiclous guidelines about exericse and being able to travel in your car if you are exercsing for the same time it took you to travel aside, mostly, they have done OK.

 

There's still much debate to be had about that anyway as governments (not just the UK, the rest of the world too) want us to get infected at a slow and managable rate, otherwise what's the solution, just sit inside all day? News on the vaccine is very promising and from what I've read, a lot of the pre-work helped through the vaccinne for MERS, but it doesn't account if the virus mutates, be it a milder or deadlier form.

 

Narrow it down to post lockdown to suit your arguement but I'm talking about overall and particularly before lockdown.

The furlough scheme is one thing for which the government deserve some credit. The fact that it is relatively simple will mean that it is easier for companies who don't need the help to apply for it anyway, but it speeds up the process for companies that do need it. The things they need to look at again (in the short-term) are the people who are still left out because of the cut-off date and whether people on the minimum wage (or, perhaps, a slightly higher level) should be paid 100% of their pay rather than 80%. There should perhaps be a minimum payment as well as a maximum.

 

The big question, as with everything else, will be how to pay for it. This is going to add a huge amount to the national debt which is already a lot higher than the amount the Tories inherited ten years ago. That will be the time to look at highly profitable companies which have used the furlough scheme and how to get them to pay the money back. It may, for example, mean a higher tax on profits for any company that used the furlough scheme and/or an extra tax on dividends paid by those companies.

 

Who knows how we will pay for it, tax rises will seem the most likely. Seems highly likely across the board..

 

Yes but banning audiences will obviously anger quite a few die hard fans as well as motivate people to watch the games together. There's so much risks involved of having that 1 asymptomatic superspreader. I'm glad both Belgium and The Netherlands have banned the leagues. It'll for sure squander any goodwill towards clubs if they insist on proceeding the competition

 

The dutch football clubs have actually all got together and made pacts to support each other, the top 5 will go into europe and donate some of the proceeds, and the dutch government is very likely to to step in as well

 

There’s no evidence to support this though, it’s all just pie in the sky stuff. You can’t just cancel everything, you’ve got to make an attempt to get things moving again even if there is a little risk involved (of which the plans thought out for the Premier League seen pretty well thought out if they signed off). I think most people understand banning audiences is going to happen but it’s going to be that way until there is a vaccine. It might upset some people, but the alternative is you kill football off. And any sport for that matter.

 

Narrow it down to post lockdown to suit your arguement but I'm talking about overall and particularly before lockdown.

 

But I meant specifically post Lockdown. Pre lockdown it’s obvious the Government screwed up- we went against the grain and opted for herd immunity without fully understanding the impact the virus. It was the wrong thing to do and rightly when all this is over, they will be held to account.

The thing with this app the government are going to introduce is not all people have access to the technology and also it relies on people putting in accurate data for it to work...what could possible go wrong!

The thing with this app the government are going to introduce is not all people have access to the technology and also it relies on people putting in accurate data for it to work...what could possible go wrong!

 

Well they will be relying on the uptake of people with smartphones to use it and that will negate the effect on people that don't. I'm sure there will be a big push. And plus we have gone for a Centralised model too so it's easier for the government to have control of our data. I read some countries used bluetooth wristbands for people that didn't have smartphones, but I dount we will go down that road due to the logistics and cost, at least not initially.

I am very much doubting the Iran numbers

I could honestly count on one hand the number of countries numbers that I actually trust.

 

Not to say that I think all countries are pulling a China and actively and maliciously outright lying as a deliberate PR and propaganda strategy. I just don’t think many countries have got a true handle on the true scale of the deaths, especially the community and care home deaths.