July 16, 20213 yr I don't know where I stand with 11-15 year olds getting the vaccine from an ethical perspective. I suspect we will have to jab them to get higher immunity but certainly for 16-18 year olds we ask them to pay national insurance, taxes, wear masks if they're working in a shop.. so we treat them as adults but don't want to give them the same responsibility and I don't agree with that. I think the 18-29 take up in the UK is only about 55%, can see it getting higher but it's going to be a slog and going to take weeks/months. The way I see it is that we start vaccinating from birth for nasty shit and when they hit adolescence then we add in others like HPV. I don’t see how different Corona is from some of the later vaccines that are already on our schedule. Yes the risk of death is lower but there’s still long Covid that Hits even the younger ages groups and there is some very rare extremely nasty form that the virus can take in kids that I forget the name of. It’s rare but is very lethal. Ultimately if we want it to become like the flu we need to give the most mobile population protection. That’s the under 40’s. Going old protects the health care system but going young will stop the outbreak from spreading as easily. I couldn’t agree with you more. Johnson is a Moran. He and his government don’t have a clue. The thing is this doesn’t have to happen and it’s a choice as a result of very bad decisions. No other country is taking this reckless and dangerous approach. In addition, there is a new variant called the Beta variant (originating from South Africa) that is currently affecting France and this shows just how easy it is for new variants to develop. As a result, fully vaccinated people will still need to quarantine upon return from holidays in France. This is the only positive change in policy I’ve heard all week from the government.The problem is that this France thing is horse shit as well. It mixes the messaging by putting one amber country under other circumstances but begs the question of if there’s a variant why ain’t it being red listed if it’s so bad? The answer is simple. Because Beta isn’t a threat. This is some vindictive retaliative shit going on from Johnson and is at best a PR stunt to make people think like he’s acting. Beta has been in Europe for months thanks to the UK (as usual) because it’s been in London and the SE for yonks. This entire year the UK has had Beta cases. When I was home at Xmas there was surge testing in London trying to track it!!! You can’t suddenly tell me a country with poor links to ZA is currently the problem for Beta. Where do you think France got it from? Alpha and Delta are both more dominant than Beta. We’ve had beta and gamma cases in Germany for six months or so as well and it has never been more than a few a week, it’s never become a dominant strain or a threat. Just as It’s not in France. Delta is hugely dominant and still growing here on the continent and that’s the case for France too. There’s no noise out of France about Beta taking off because well it’s just not as transmittable as the OG Johnson Variant and Johnson Variant 2.0. (The current word from France that I heard was that Beta has been around but is currently in major decline as delta marches. The RKI in Germany has tracked both Beta and Gamma for months and have rich datasets showing that it never seeded here) Just more mismanagement of travel by Johnson.
July 16, 20213 yr I think the theory around the Beta stuff is Delta beats it from a dominance perspective, but that could change now we have far higher levels of vaccine protection. So it’s a wait and see moment. Going by the same methodology it should be on the Red list, but suspect it’s a mix of knowing some MPs are going there and pissing loads of people off cos they now have to quarantine.. But who knows really as the travel list methodology is just plucked from nowhere!
July 16, 20213 yr But beta isn’t new in Europe or the UK. It’s been tracked in Berlin since the start of the year and on a bad week is 1.5% of the samples sequenced. This week beta and gamma combined was 0,5%. Sure were one city, but Berlin is the most populated City proper in the EU and if, in spite of ample opportunities to run riot in an unvaccinated population it hasn’t, I don’t see what threat it can really pose now. If it was such a threat, France would be on the German VoC list (we put Portugal on it over delta and threatened to do the same to Spain) and the fact that the RKI aren’t worried and mainland France ain’t even a risk area for us (ie it’s Green) makes me think it’s bullshittery by Johnson. The RKI updates weekly and move extremely fast and transparently. We threw the UK on the VoC list before anyone else did. They are super risk adverse when it comes to variants that aren’t dominant in Germany. It’s horseshit. And no This isn’t a UK bad DE good thing. This is a the RKI is consistent, transparent, fast, and reliable and I trust them immeasurably more than the UK Gov thing. Especially when as you say the methodology in the UK is absolute garbage Like I’m fully prepared for the UK gov to have finally called one right and we will see what the RKI does over the coming weeks because it wasn’t in today’s update. Fully prepared to retract and admit they finally called something right but they’ve not exactly got a good track record
July 17, 20213 yr Melbourne back in lockdown due to the Delta strain outbreak being brought across from New South Wales.
July 17, 20213 yr But beta isn’t new in Europe or the UK. It’s been tracked in Berlin since the start of the year and on a bad week is 1.5% of the samples sequenced. This week beta and gamma combined was 0,5%. Sure were one city, but Berlin is the most populated City proper in the EU and if, in spite of ample opportunities to run riot in an unvaccinated population it hasn’t, I don’t see what threat it can really pose now. If it was such a threat, France would be on the German VoC list (we put Portugal on it over delta and threatened to do the same to Spain) and the fact that the RKI aren’t worried and mainland France ain’t even a risk area for us (ie it’s Green) makes me think it’s bullshittery by Johnson. The RKI updates weekly and move extremely fast and transparently. We threw the UK on the VoC list before anyone else did. They are super risk adverse when it comes to variants that aren’t dominant in Germany. It’s horseshit. And no This isn’t a UK bad DE good thing. This is a the RKI is consistent, transparent, fast, and reliable and I trust them immeasurably more than the UK Gov thing. Especially when as you say the methodology in the UK is absolute garbage Like I’m fully prepared for the UK gov to have finally called one right and we will see what the RKI does over the coming weeks because it wasn’t in today’s update. Fully prepared to retract and admit they finally called something right but they’ve not exactly got a good track record Talk on the news this morning from a scientist who said it's because Beta doesn't work as well against AZ. So there is the risk we import on a large scale and it becomes dominant here and is less effective against the vaccines.
July 17, 20213 yr But again my point is that the UK has had Beta since Christmas and this isn’t new for France, the rate of it in France is falling and if it’s so bad they should be Red listed. There’s less holes in a fishnet
July 17, 20213 yr Maybe it's because of my age but I knew no one who had it first time around, a few in winter although no one I was personally close to just people I was aware of who I heard about having it, and absolutely loads of people who've had it in the last 6 weeks. Edited July 17, 20213 yr by RabbitFurCoat
July 17, 20213 yr Over 54,000 cases today, up again from yesterday. I don't agree with the "what else can we do?" attitude at all. There is loads we could have done to reduce infection whilst gradually opening things. Not flinging everything open at once for a start. Rotten government, catastrophic handling of covid. THE END.
July 17, 20213 yr I think this is also a point that is being missed, people assume everyone's behaviour is going to change come Monday.. I'd argue it's already been changed since June 21st and possibly before. I've noticed a change in tone from the media this week too- be interesting to see how this continues. So what do we do? Just keep restrictions on our daily lives forever? If we can't open up in the middle of summer then I'm not sure we're ever going to be able. I completely agree the Government have messed up lots of times and as I've stated countless times before, I disagree with some of the policy come Monday. New Zealand has been fully open for ages. Australia too for the most part. If every nation followed a policy of immediate lockdown of people entering and leaving countries it would only be the nations that start off the pandemic that get hit, and they should get huge economic penalties and repercussions for keeping it secret. The issue is everyone ignored sensible policies to reduce the spread of pandemics because they didn't want to hurt the economy, and so we are where we are. Economically worse off with a huge death toll and under constant Lockdown. That hasn't happened everywhere. It's all about investing in making sure it doesn't happen/or get a hold if it does cross borders. The UK has put all its eggs in one basket and we still have Johnson allowing new strains in because he wanted a trade deal with India - which he didn't get. If Johnson says or does something, it's virtually 100% guaranteed that it's a bad idea and things will get worse, because he doesn't care. We could have come out of Lockdown relatively safely this summer if he hadn't been such a complete twat. I can't understate how much our situation is all his fault, and his chums. He's the f***ing Typhoid Mary of modern times. I suggest stop fretting about "when" we'll be able to open up. The answer is "never" when you've got a moron being a moron in charge. If he wasn't here it wouldn't be an issue at all....
July 17, 20213 yr Guys this site is amazing - https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/local I just searched Scotland and various counties within and cases are REALLY decreasing here. I can't say the same for England but I'm sure they'll follow soon after the 'Freedom Day' (ugh) rise this week.
July 17, 20213 yr New Zealand has been fully open for ages. Australia too for the most part. If every nation followed a policy of immediate lockdown of people entering and leaving countries it would only be the nations that start off the pandemic that get hit, and they should get huge economic penalties and repercussions for keeping it secret. The issue is everyone ignored sensible policies to reduce the spread of pandemics because they didn't want to hurt the economy, and so we are where we are. Economically worse off with a huge death toll and under constant Lockdown. That hasn't happened everywhere. It's all about investing in making sure it doesn't happen/or get a hold if it does cross borders. The UK has put all its eggs in one basket and we still have Johnson allowing new strains in because he wanted a trade deal with India - which he didn't get. If Johnson says or does something, it's virtually 100% guaranteed that it's a bad idea and things will get worse, because he doesn't care. We could have come out of Lockdown relatively safely this summer if he hadn't been such a complete twat. I can't understate how much our situation is all his fault, and his chums. He's the f***ing Typhoid Mary of modern times. I suggest stop fretting about "when" we'll be able to open up. The answer is "never" when you've got a moron being a moron in charge. If he wasn't here it wouldn't be an issue at all.... Yeah but they’re not open though are they, as their borders are shut? Open if you have an Aus or NZ passport, but even then if you’re a National and abroad it’s hard to come back. And the two most populous states in Australia are in lockdown now too. Not saying the Tories haven’t made mistakes as they haven’t but it’s pretty hard to control this Delta variant. Everyone is struggling with it, even those with great border and pandemic policies. Fingers crossed our cases level off, the Euros effect of people meeting is in full swing here and will be for another week or so.
July 18, 20213 yr Yeah but they’re not open though are they, as their borders are shut? Open if you have an Aus or NZ passport, but even then if you’re a National and abroad it’s hard to come back. And the two most populous states in Australia are in lockdown now too. Not saying the Tories haven’t made mistakes as they haven’t but it’s pretty hard to control this Delta variant. Everyone is struggling with it, even those with great border and pandemic policies. Fingers crossed our cases level off, the Euros effect of people meeting is in full swing here and will be for another week or so. No surprise to see you rushing to defend the evil Tories :lol: The one party state media keeps shouting about the "new variant spreading in France", as that is the script that Blojo has given them, even though it is not new, it is not the dominant strain there, and it started in London :')
July 18, 20213 yr Yeah but they’re not open though are they, as their borders are shut? Open if you have an Aus or NZ passport, but even then if you’re a National and abroad it’s hard to come back. And the two most populous states in Australia are in lockdown now too. Not saying the Tories haven’t made mistakes as they haven’t but it’s pretty hard to control this Delta variant. Everyone is struggling with it, even those with great border and pandemic policies. Fingers crossed our cases level off, the Euros effect of people meeting is in full swing here and will be for another week or so. Yes but life, which is what we are talking about, goes on as before - apart from people coming and going into the country who have to self-isolate in a hotel, or not be allowed into the country. This is the case in some countries in Asia too, where technology and policies stopped Covid. The UK is a super-spreader along with poor countries and those with right-wing leaders. The reality is that those are the 2 choices: you either lockdown your borders and carry on as normal, or disrupt the economy and kill hundreds of thousands of your citizens by not Locking down. It's not at all about when it's SAFE to re-open. It'll never be safe if you opt for the second version because Covid will be simmering in other countries taking that route too, with the latest variant going rife. We've had our own variant that we've graciously shared with France, and now are in the hilariously self-unaware situation that we are forcing people travelling from France to self-isolate because of that variant while you can f*** around and do what you want in the UK - the origin of the variant which is being replaced by an even-more contagious variant. And so to todays latest headlines: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57877373 The new Health Sec who is keen to open up the nation to "self-judgement" has Covid the day it all becomes a marvellous new world where everything is sorted by herd immunity and vaccination. He's been in a care home this week. Oh, and his co-workers, the PM and Chancellor, decide they don't have to abide by self-isolation because they are rich and can't possibly work from home, which every previous PM and Chancellor has done. And I have been doing for the last 18 months. While caring for 2 vulnerable parents, and unlike those wealthy tosspots I don't have staff at my disposal to do all the things I have to do, when I need help it has to be paid for. The words "hypocrites" and "f***ing" spring to mind as they set yet another example to the nation that they don't have to follow the rules. How on Earth did a Health Sec who has been double-jabbed get Covid? Same way the PM got it, presumably, by being an utter selfish prick. This is like an episode of something Armando Ianucci might have written, only it's not funny cos it's all-too-real.... Again, I can't underline enough that we are in this position because of our brain-dead leaders who we as a nation put our faith and trust in, and who keep trying to change or ignore the narrative so that they don't appear as completely f***ing useless as they are.
July 18, 20213 yr Johnson couldn't possibly be expected to self-isolate. What would happen to all those hard hats and hi-vis jackets prepared for his photo opportunities over the next ten days? He can't do them over Zoom.
July 18, 20213 yr No surprise to see you rushing to defend the evil Tories :lol: The one party state media keeps shouting about the "new variqnt spreading in Framce", as that is the script that Blojo has given them, even though it is not new, ir is not the dominant strain there, and it started in London :') I’m not defending them, they’ve made some terrible decisions. But I don’t know what people want other than us being locked down again? Which I’m not even convinced would curb the spread.
July 18, 20213 yr I’m not defending them, they’ve made some terrible decisions. But I don’t know what people want other than us being locked down again? Which I’m not even convinced would curb the spread. Not to open everything up suddenly, as if the virus doesn't exist, would be, um, an otpion x
July 18, 20213 yr I really think it’s reckless and stupid to be lifting all restrictions in England tomorrow, it’s still too early, there’s still far too many people in hospital with covid! I think at least another 2-3 weeks should be enough to complete vaccination and it will be a lot safer then. Scotland are being a lot more sensible, keeping in place basic restrictions until at least august the 9th when vaccination will almost be completed. I feel the only reason boris Johnson is doing this is that he’s scared of the backlash and hate he’ll get if he delays it even longer, he doesn’t care what’s best health wise, he just wants to save his own skin. Tbh I don’t expect anything less from a clueless prime minister like him anyways.
July 18, 20213 yr Not to open everything up suddenly, as if the virus doesn't exist, would be, um, an otpion x Yeah I get that, but what do you tell nightclub owners etc. It’s easy for us to sit here and criticise but it must be awful if you work in the late night entertainment. I’ve said before I think it’s mad that masks will be dropped, and likewise the PM and Chancellor have turned round and self-isolated which was a massive misjudgement and a complete kick in the teeth to millions of others. I’m just of the opinion if we can’t open up certain industries now, we’re never going to be able to open them up and it’s not financially viable to keep stringing them along.
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