THE FINALE.

 

Sutekh has returned. Mrs Flood is acting suspicious again. We still don't know who Ruby's mum is (yet). There's a 'Kind Woman' on another planet waiting with vital information :thinking:

 

Ncuti's first series comes to a close on Saturday, and after that cliffhanger, Empire of Death has a LOT to deal with (and at least we have an extended 54 minute runtime). SO EXCITED!!

 

Brand new episode of Tales of the TARDIS will be released on Thursday that will act as a bridge between the two episodes supposedly!

Oooh extended run time!

Is anyone off to the cinema to watch? My local Showcase has got 3 screens reserved for it but they're charging £12.50 a pop :blink:

Deary me...

 

I'll post more thoughts tomorrow when I've had some time to process it and think about it all, but for now I am Pamela Shipman.

 

oh dear indeed and after a great setup in the first half too.

I enjoyed parts of it. Bonnie was amazing throughout and Lenny Rush casually eating pizza as everyone was gushing was a highlight. 3

 

But... big reset (classic RTD), the ending was massively overegged (classic RTD) and it failed to really deliver any big shocks... other than there were no big shocks, or reveals.

 

Some good nods to the past though and Mrs Flood continues to be intriguing. But it was all over the place; Ruby's mum being able to not be seen by Sutekh was because she was completely ordinary... and death plus death = life (apparently)...

 

Better than most of the Whittaker finales though... but it could and should have been alot more

I didn't hate that, in fact I rather liked some parts (even Mel who's probably my least favourite companion ever), but it was a total mess of ideas and fell prey to RTD's usual flaws - big stakes, nonsense resolution, complete reset. Kind of liked his trolling of fans with the Ruby's mum result. Sutekh far less interesting a villain than his original story becoming just a one dimensional monster.

Gatwa played a much better take in The Doctor here too but if he hadn't been crying every five minutes throughout the series his tears here would have had a more powerful effect.

Decent finale but again still gaving trouble properly landing the ending, which to be fair is always the hardest part.

Edited June 22, 20241 yr by Severin

I think RTD tried to have a big The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang moment trying to open the Moffat playbook with that finale in terms of storytelling, and honestly some parts of it were great, but some parts really weren't at all.

 

What really let Sutekh down was the time jump, going from the incredible build up in The Legend of Ruby Sunday, destroying everything and turning it to dust... to just chilling in UNIT HQ however long later just waiting for the Doctor and Ruby to show up because he's nosy and wanted to know who her mother was? Give me strength. The scale and the impact of all the devastation was best told through Ncuti's scene looking down on Earth from the TARDIS. That was a moment. Had chills watching Ncuti deliver that, but had it not been for that, Sutekh literally ended up posing zero threat and there was zero consequence whatsoever because everything was reversed in the end anyway. The scene with Ncuti looking down on Earth and screaming at what was happening really should have been the cliffhanger last week, at least letting it feel like time had actually passed. Some beautiful visuals with Sutekh being dragged through the time vortex and ripping it open bringing life back, but oh lord everything else in between was a bit of a mess.

 

Then onto Ruby's mother... ffs. I don't mind that her mother actually ended up just being a normal person in the end, but what does bother me is all of the inconsistencies that now come up because it seems like RTD focused more on creating a mystery for Ruby rather than how it was all going to pay off and be resolved in the end. Sure, have some fun trolling the fans if you must, but at least make it make sense. :drama: Why would a random 15 year old girl in 2004 be in a cloak like that walking through the snow, being so ominous? Why would her pointing at a lamppost that just so happened to be a road sign - with nobody else around - result in that being how Ruby was named? Why would there be no DNA trace (taking Sutekh out of the equation completely) of a normal, human, registered nurse that works for the NHS? Polar opposite to this two-parter itself, there are just too many problems with the setup of the mystery itself to be able to sit back and fully appreciate the end result.

 

That said, there were parts of the episode I absolutely adored. The scenes in the remembered TARDIS were great, Mel was great, Ncuti was SENSATIONAL and 100% carried the episode. He has such a presence on screen that just leaves me thirsty for so much more. Millie was amazing too and there's no denying that final scene in the TARDIS with the two of them was very emotional, but I can't help feeling it would've had even more gravitas had the series been just a couple of episodes longer, with more time to flesh her character out and properly attach ourselves to her.

 

I do feel the Susan references throughout this series will probably carry on into the next series, and she'll make an appearance at some point in Ncuti's era, but like Mrs Flood they're probably playing a long game with that one (at least I hope; it would be bitterly disappointing for there to be so many blatant references to her like there hasn't been probably in the entirety of the revived show for it to amount to nothing). Mrs Flood... starting to get on board with the clownery of her imitating former companions. Dressed like Clara, and then like Romana in that final scene (interesting that her door number is 4 too :thinking:).

Not bad at all. Could have done without the buildup of the mystery of Ruby's mum (I was at one point convinced it was Rose Tyler) but they really over exaggerated that with a boring outcome. Still much better than anything we ever had in the past 10 years.

 

I dont think I'm sold on this Doctor, and UNIT is just so strong in comparison it weakens his presence. I feel like we waited so long and only got 8 episodes and I feel no kind of way towards this Doctor or Ruby in any sense. I had no idea who Mel was before the specials and this Season but I feel more connected to her.

 

I think they need to work on the casting as for me that's what's let it down.

Not bad at all. Could have done without the buildup of the mystery of Ruby's mum (I was at one point convinced it was Rose Tyler) but they really over exaggerated that with a boring outcome. Still much better than anything we ever had in the past 10 years.

 

I dont think I'm sold on this Doctor, and UNIT is just so strong in comparison it weakens his presence. I feel like we waited so long and only got 8 episodes and I feel no kind of way towards this Doctor or Ruby in any sense. I had no idea who Mel was before the specials and this Season but I feel more connected to her.

 

I think they need to work on the casting as for me that's what's let it down.

 

Capaldi was within the past ten years and he, Missy and Bill gave us one of the greatest ever episodes with his two parter goodbye episode!!! Those two are in discussion as possibly the BEST Doc Who episodes ever!!!

Ah we just love a RTD reversal in a final don't we, where everything is forgotten and put back to normal :kink:

 

Ruby's mum reveal was emotional but only that otherwise it was a complete let down? Building up for nothing (even if the intention was there to show how special each and every person is in their own way I guess).

 

I rewatched Pyramids of Mars this week, both the original and the Tales of the TARDIS version and found Sutekh more of a threat there than in this episode. Visually stunning but after last week's build up, his appearance in this episode left a lot to be desired.

 

I am massively intrigued by Mrs Flood. Please be someone from the Doctor's past, I don't care who now but I do want to know who she is. We know that Romana, The Rani and Susan haven't appeared in the modern series yet so one of the three would be fabulous.

Mmm, I had my doubts this would fully stick the landing as Doctor Who finales usually do and this was no exception x

 

There was some good stuff - Mel's gradual corruption was great, the scene watching the universe and the Doctor realising was fantastic and hit a lot harder than his other emotional moments (I do agree that I wish there was fewer of these throughout the season as it would've made the moment hit harder) and Sian Clifford is always great to see.

 

On the whole though, it sadly suffered from the classic hallmarks of a rushed finale as has already been noted - one being the reset button which seemed garbled and rushed even for Doctor Who. Taking down the God of Death was clearly super easy, barely an inconvenience (if you get that, you're my friend), the show isn't for babies, it shouldn't be afraid to at least have some damage done in the path to victory.

 

I suppose I should've seen the 'actually she's not that special' trope coming as Disney did the same with Rey in Star Wars. I get it, but it feels very smarmy and just a sign that they've clearly wrote themselves into a corner as no answer would've been enough. If this is indeed the last we see of Ruby (I'm guessing it isn't though haven't caught up with recent spoilers), then I'm not sure she'll be anyone's favourite companion, as headstrong as she is, she generally seemed pretty surface level, which I suppose is the point, but I would've liked to see a bit more development. I feel like a lot of the 73 Yards questions have gone unanswered and it makes it all seem like it was just all a fantasy which is a real shame as that remains a high point of the season.

 

I guess if you're into happy sappy endings you'd like it, but I just prefer things being a bit darker and it left me rather underwhelmed (though still an improvement on any of Chibnall's). I do feel this season had some brilliant moments, but more episodes would've allowed so much more ideas and development to flourish rather than this rushed conclusion, it's a shame.

 

Mrs Flood actually on the good side it seems, gotta be a friendly timelord surely x

I’m going against the grain. I really enjoyed that and didnt really feel let down at all. Yes, it was an RTD reversal but surely everyone knew that would happen as soon as Sutekh killed everyone? I love that Mrs Flood is still a mystery and seemingly unconnected to Sutekh-leave us wanting more!

 

It’s interesting that you bring up Rey from Star Wars, Chez, that totally went through my mind too. But I think Ruby’s mum being ordinary works much better, with companions from Rose all the way to Clara always having a special destiny and being super important we’ve come to expect the same thing and it was refreshing that it was ordinary. With Rey, it felt like a let down as it was a mystery that Star Wars had never done before and was a clear case of no cohesion in the planning of the films, particularly when they made the twist even worse in the following film. But RTD had this planned, he played on audience expectations and even wrote that into the characters over the series. We were all kind of groaning at Christmas when Ruby had a mystery surrounding her so it’s kind of refreshing that it wasn’t some big deal.

 

Of course, a little suspension of disbelief is required but that’s also something always need when watching DW.

 

I found it very thrilling and satisfying. I’m pumped for the next series, something I haven’t said about Doctor Who in almost ten years. They have to give us Susan in the next one!

Interesting to see how people interpret it all differently, because I am seeing a lot of comments on Twitter about Star Wars (RTD has confirmed this was his inspiration for the story now too) and how they believe RTD has completely missed the mark and the actual point of a story like this, whereas Star Wars got it spot on because it was something that had to happen for the sake of the character in question?

I enjoyed it a lot too! It wasn't perfect but it felt like a satisfying conclusion to many plot threads, and provided some great character beats that the shorter episode count hasn't found as much time for until now. The conclusion to the mystery around Ruby's mother provided the ultimate twist after everyone was speculating like mad...! That final 10 minutes or so was perfectly pitched.

 

Death reversing death was a pretty cool solution too, those scenes in the vortex with Sutekh were brilliant! Perhaps a longer runtime could've allowed for a couple more twists and turns in that resolution, but I liked that we got to see some more sinister moments from Sutekh still, like his takeover of Mel (played expertly by Bonnie!). Ncuti and Millie were powerhouses as they've been all season, and I think the more reduced cast of this episode worked in their favour.

 

It's been a brilliant series, the most I've enjoyed the show in a long time with a consistently high quality. Some room for improvement but it really feels like the show's in safe hands, and I've loved tuning in every Saturday night knowing there's a strong chance it'll be a high quality episode. No real duds across the season for me!

Interesting to see how people interpret it all differently, because I am seeing a lot of comments on Twitter about Star Wars (RTD has confirmed this was his inspiration for the story now too) and how they believe RTD has completely missed the mark and the actual point of a story like this, whereas Star Wars got it spot on because it was something that had to happen for the sake of the character in question?

 

No, I definitely don’t think Star Wars did it better. And I’m a huge Star Wars fan and even prefer it to DW but hands down this was done better. No one working on Star Wars actually talked to each other about who Rey was. They even changed her identity midway filming the final film. There was no plan and it shows. Whereas the reveal that she was no one did actually work during the Last Jedi, they didn’t stick the landing of it. They couldn’t commit to the choice because they were terrified of fan reaction. RTD clearly is not as he had shown since returning to take over. He’s attitude is that this is DW, deal with it and I love the energy.

 

Doctor Who has most often than not had a series long mystery since it’s 2005 return. This is why the reveal feels more satisfying. Star Wars never had a mystery before Rey so to troll the fans was a bit of a letdown. People rave about the reveal of Darth Vader being Luke’s father and sort of assume Star Wars is all about family mysteries. But the identify of Luke’s father wasn’t a mystery until that reveal. No one was wondering who Luke’s father was and Darth Vader had already been given an explanation. That’s why the reveal was so effecting, because no one was expecting it. I’m assuming of course, I wasn’t born in 1980. But the Rey reveal had been off the back of 2 years of speculation and wasn’t even definite enough that they couldn’t overwrite it in the next film. RTD has pulled a similar trick but the answers are definite and now cannot be changed. We have identities for the parents. We have an explanation as to why the mystery was built up-not perfectly but still.

I think the 'gotcha' moment of Ruby would've worked better if there wasn't things brought up that couldn't really be explained by her just being normal. How did she make it snow? (If it was psychological, I'd understand, but it wasn't, other people saw it) How did she create an alternate timeline in 73 Yards? Why is a 15 year old dressing up like a death eater and pointing at nothing if they're otherwise normal and not aware that anyone else can see them? They could've done an interesting link with the powers of the TARDIS attaching itself to an otherwise normal Ruby in a way to break it up from Sutekh's control which made her a bit more powerful than she expected before loosening.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't really like the companion being a mystery/ultimate saviour trope either, but if you're gonna set up a rug pull, you shouldn't leave things unturned. It's just not as clever or original as he wants it to be.

Feels to me like the 73 yards stuff will come back eventually. The snow I can’t explain but I guess that could be revealed later?

 

However I’ve seen so many comments about ‘why is Ruby’s mum dressed in a cloak if she’s just a normal teenager?’ and once again roll my eyes on the fixation on a mundane detail. She was abandoning a baby at the church. There was CCTV. She didn’t want to be seen. I don’t really need a full explanation of where she found the cloak, etc, it’s just not important enough.

Don't get me wrong, I don't really like the companion being a mystery/ultimate saviour trope either, but if you're gonna set up a rug pull, you shouldn't leave things unturned. It's just not as clever or original as he wants it to be.

100% agree with this.

 

Regarding cloak-gate too, I think it just takes you out of the illusion really when you now know the answers then look back at what's been shown to us. I can buy that she won't want to have been seen, there was CCTV, and we don't need any answers as to why she's wearing what she's wearing, where she found it, etc... but you'd think the costume department - and RTD if he had a say in all of it - would be in the know enough to come up with something a little more fitting for the time period that doesn't allude to her potentially being something/someone they know she's never going to be? If you're more concerned about trolling fans and the satisfaction of a gotcha moment, at least make it airtight.

Ruby’s mum was obviously as a Traitors cos-play event :D

 

… But 20 years out of time