I said I wouldn't mention it again, but the song's now out and I'm seeing the same influx of negativity about Katy working with Dr Luke.

 

I'm not enjoying reading about people effectively saying that Dr Luke should be blacklisted from working on any project that the people he's working with deem appropriate for him to work on. I genuinely have no idea why someone who hasn't been convicted of anything can't have a hand in the writing or production of this, and I find it frustrating that it keeps getting brought up. Katy Perry is a woman. She is singing the song. She obviously feels happy with men collaborating with her, that really should be the end of that discussion until further evidence materialises.

 

This isn't targeted at any particular person: I just genuinely feel that if Katy or Dr Luke (or anyone who has been maybe wrongly accused of something before) were reading these sorts of comments, they might feel a bit confused and/or upset.

 

It seems there are only a few people that agree with what I'm seeing, but it's all a bit tough for me to read when I'm loving the song and curious about people's opinions on the song (and not the writing team).

On the quality of the song itself, it absolutely doesn't reinvent the wheel and I don't think Katy's ever claimed that it has or that was her aim with the song. It's simple, fun pop music with the same formula that's worked for her before. It would be a different story if Katy was sat here claiming this was the beginning of a total artistic reinvention, but she's not.

 

On Dr Luke, I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything you've said there. With no convictions and a lack of evidence to suggest otherwise, mostly Kesha fans (and those that get caught up in online discourse none the wiser taking what they see at face value) are continuing to show themselves up as people that would rather live in a land of fiction where somebody should be persecuted forevermore - by association too - irrespective of the facts we have in front of us. Regardless of past friendships between artists (a pretty poor excuse to stoke further performative disappointment) if Katy herself is in a comfortable, safe working environment then let her be.

At least three major popstars have directly spoken out about their time working with Dr Luke and the negative experiences they faced. Are we saying that P!nk, Kelly Clarkson and Kesha's lived experiences are now fictional? That's a very damaging stance to take in the light of movements such as MeToo which proved how much harder it was for women's voices to be heard against more powerful men.

 

None of us know what happened behind closed doors and we probably never will. Who knows if it was as extreme as rape or if it was a dominating man calling the shots and denying the women a say. Regardless of the fine details however, THREE popstars speaking out about him has to raise at least the slightest bit of suspicion? And so to then associate him so closely on a song about sisterhood and raising females up just seems so counterproductive. Of course Katy is allowed to do this, especially if her experiences with him have been great, but also, don't just sing of female empowerment: enact it and show it with actions and decisions in solidarity to the (at least) three women that have said that he was not a nice person to work with. Work with him all you want, but we as listeners don't need to support the decision, critics can pan the quality of the music, we can expect more from her as an artist so far into her career.

 

The court standings and convictions are one thing (how many times have they got it wrong in history) but at least acknowledging (not believing if that's your stance, but acknowledging) the truths of at least three females who have worked closely with him, three women that are contemporaries to Katy, is a whole other thing and for her to not recognise that is frankly disappointing. It's not a performative excuse to believe multiple women saying they wouldn't work with him again, it's a sense of morality for others that share the same space as you as a woman fighting to be heard in the male dominated music industry.

 

Yes there is no proof in the court documents but there is the lived experiences of (at least) 3 women and that's enough for me to be wary of him and not want him to be profiting from a song about women, for women.

Well said, and Katy was heard about the matter in court as well so she is very well aware of the big picture. Ignoring it completely is just a bad look.

 

It is also much asked for people to completely forget and ignore everything AROUND the comeback - the world and pop culture doesn't happen in a void and everything that happens within it has effects on others. She cannot transfer the "Katy Perry of 2013" to year 2024 and be like "yep this is it, this will do". New trends are being born, the public decides what is hot or not, careers catapult into stardom and, on the other hand, fade away all the time. It is completely FINE to observe things beyond just the musical perspective and even if we take a look at the music and music only, this isn't Katy's finest hour.

Edited July 15, 2024Jul 15 by Sour Candy

I get the angle the of seeing from Dr Luke point of view if you did nothing and weren’t convicted then it would seem absurd people can’t work with you. Everybody knows how people like him operate. There have been large predators in the film and music industry and it’s always the same type of allegations in the same way. It’s pretty clear convictions or not what this guy has done. From Katy it was surely desperation. She wanted to recreate when she had hits and he often helped her she saw others working with him and assumed it wouldn’t be a big deal. Really though it eliminated a lot of goodwill that comes with a break and time away. Yes the average person won’t know about it in detail but for a song to a succeed it needs to be getting somewhere first to reach the average persons radar.

 

I don’t think the song is bad at all, but nothing she released was going to do well. She probably would have flopped either way but working with Dr Luke just didn’t even give her a chance now you got Katy Perry fans out there trying to defend a predator and it looks terrible for everybody. Personally I like her and think she gets a lot of unnecessary negativity and has done for sometime but you can’t overlook how this just gives ammo for people to dunk on you and not support the new material.

She only started working with him again when the case was settled out of court and both he and Kesha released a joint statement putting a line through it.

I'm not even saying that I know every minute detail (I didn't actually know about P!nk and Kelly's comments until now - and that required me to be specific with my googling).

 

From what I can see, their comments were along the lines of "meh, I don't feel bad for him, he's not a good person" and "that's karma for being an arse to work with". I can't see anything where they alluded to anything beyond that. I can't find anything from the other hundreds(?) of people he's worked with saying these sorts of things. They also worked with him in the 2000's (Kelly worked with him in 2009 and apparently told him where to go...) It is very possible that he learnt his lesson there. Some people are difficult to work with/clash/whatever. As far as I can see, this doesn't really have anything to do with gender. A sample of three people isn't really enough for me to say he's a risk to work with (just like I refused to judge Lizzo based on three people complaining about her).

 

I stand by my views. I've never met Dr Luke, Katy, Kesha, Pink or Kelly. I don't know what they're like to work with, I can only see what image is portrayed from what they choose to share or what the press paints... Plenty of people haven't gelled with colleagues I've worked really well with, I don't expect everyone to work well with Dr Luke.

 

I'm not trying to defend a predator. I'm not even like a Katy Perry stan or anything (I have zero intention to go to any of her shoes): I just don't find it comfortable reading an onslaught of negative comments for choosing to work with someone, where none of us can see what has happened behind closed doors.

 

I can just about understand why people might hold different views (given the MeToo context), but until we have more evidence, or other come out with the same kinds of allegations, I have zero reason to be disappointed in Katy deciding to collaborate with a person she has collaborated with many times before.

 

I'm also not oblivious to the fact that convictions are not always correct, I'm literally just saying that we don't have the evidence, and all it takes is for ANY of us to be falsely accused of something by a few people (and one of them to be a serious allegation) for a majority to then judge us - that is what I do not agree with. I hope noone saying these comments gets accused of something they haven't done, because I'm 100% sure it will not be pleasant to go through.

People get too unnecessary involved creating their own BS. Just focus on the music.

Appearing on the Call Her Daddy podcast this week, Katy was asked about her decision to collaborate with Dr. Luke.

 

“I do wanna ask you about one collaborator in particular,” said host Alex Cooper. “I know a lot of people have expressed disappointment and were really upset that you decided to involve Dr. Luke on this album. Why did you choose to work with him?”

 

Katy replied, “Look, I understand that it started a lot of conversations. He was one of many collaborators that I collaborated with. But the reality is, it comes from me.”

 

“I am speaking from my own experience. When I speak about ‘Woman’s World,’ I speak about feeling so empowered now as a mother, as a woman, giving birth, creating life, creating another set of organs, a brain, a heart — I created a whole ass heart!” she said. Katy welcomed her daughter, Daisy Dove Bloom, with Orlando Bloom in 2020.

 

Stating that she’s “still a matriarch,” Katy added, “So, I created all of this with several different collaborators — people that I’ve collaborated with from the past, from the “Teenage Dream” era, from all of that.”

 

I mean, at least she's addressed it in some form I suppose but meeeeep. That's really not gonna help her cause whatsoever.

So, she basically didn't say....anything?

In some ways I really want her to just honestly address the question.

 

What we got there didn’t really give any reason at all but I’d respect her if she just said Teenage Dream was a huge success and she wanted a taste of that again so she got Luke back onboard. The reason she did it was obviously because she expected or wanted a commercial comeback and assumed he was the one for it. I don’t necessarily think it would help her cause or win people over but backtracking and playing the mother card also really isn’t it (and then mentioning Woman’s World of all songs).

 

It’s going to take some beating for a female pop album from a major star to be so terribly handled. It really is quite fascinating to observe. :lol:

Edited September 4, 2024Sep 4 by Jordanlee1402

I have zero reason to be disappointed in Katy deciding to collaborate with a person she has collaborated with many times before.

She's essentially said what I said here. She's working with someone she has experience collaborating with. It's not really her place to speculate on what hasn't been proven to happen to one other person. Why add fuel to the fire?

 

I've seen comments around "why doesn't she just be honest around why she worked with him", and she has quite clearly said it's because she's worked with him before. She answered the question she was given, she has no reason to say that was a poor choice based on one person's accusations (I'm disregarding Kelly and Pink as they don't appear to have detailed what their grievances are about, it could very well be that they just didn't get on) and she will NEVER say she doesn't believe Kesha, especially if not asked directly.

So she worked with Dr Luke because she worked with him before... and because she's feeling empowered as a woman and mother. Glad she's cleared up this whole saga!

So she worked with Dr Luke because she worked with him before... and because she's feeling empowered as a woman and mother. Glad she's cleared up this whole saga!

I don't know what you're all expecting her to say? :lol: It's like Kesha fans want it to be (or at least want to continue believing it for the sake of portraying someone as a villain) the case that she deliberately went out of her way to collaborate with Dr Luke to destroy her career?

 

Although she's not said much there, she's said exactly what she wanted and needed to say when asked about it and you can read between the lines. Wanting to replicate the success of previous eras by working with those you're familiar with when your career has been on the back foot for two consecutive albums is... very understandable. Has it worked? No. But that's a whole other can of worms lol.

I don't know what you're all expecting her to say? :lol: It's like Kesha fans want it to be (or at least want to continue believing it for the sake of portraying someone as a villain) the case that she deliberately went out of her way to collaborate with Dr Luke to destroy her career?

 

Although she's not said much there, she's said exactly what she wanted and needed to say when asked about it and you can read between the lines. Wanting to replicate the success of previous eras by working with those you're familiar with when your career has been on the back foot for two consecutive albums is... very understandable. Has it worked? No. But that's a whole other can of worms lol.

One. Million. Percent. This.

 

I have zero clue what went on behind closed doors. We see what the media and the people involved allow us to see. It's exhausting watching people dragging Katy for... Not really doing anything wrong at all?

My response doesn't come as a Kesha stan it comes as a Katy fan? I want to know why she is working with the same tired producers rehashing old material in sub-standard ways. I want her to answer why from an artistic perspective she's working with them and what other producers she rejected in favour of these. I want more from artists I have loved in the past because I'm connected to their music?

 

I also want to know why her response is so muted when she clearly knows away from the music there is a HUGE fiasco and drama from the Kesha stans and fans of pop females in general.

 

My main issue is the shit music. The Dr Luke stuff irks me because it seems so unnecessary to create such bland music which says nothing at all with someone she's worked with before (and happens to be in a legal case against her friend).

 

But she's clearly empowered working with him so as a Katy fan, I'm happy for her. Just wish she'd have explained further the artistic choices behind her decisions.

Katy has, and probably never will be, an artist that releases anything more than fun bops.

 

What exactly could she have said that wouldn't have added fuel to the fire? Say nothing, you're criticised. Say the bare minium, you're criticised. Say you're aware of allegations and thought "f*** it", you'll be dragged. Say you think Kesha's a liar, you'll be dragged. This was truly a no-win situation for Katy.

 

The quality of the material is subjective, me and Katy are clearly living in 2012, because I'm liking everything I've heard so far, and would rather she release this than something which she's not about.

Yeah, that's true actually. She's not exactly somebody I look to for artistic excellence (I mean does anybody?) - the fun pop bops are where she excels!

It's baffling how all this has happened considering she and Sam Smith are the only truly commercially viable pop stars Capitol (the label) has so she most likely had the money to do everything she wanted with this. Was the label like... "we give you a million dollars, go and create an album with Dr. Luke, that's a brilliant idea" and when all this Kesha-related farce unveiled, why wasn't it taken a back and started a new because everyone could see the PR catastrophe from a far. Has The Doctor such strict contracts that his songs must lead the project once agreed?

 

Well anyway, what happened is that they are already pulling the plug from promotion, the singles have sold and streamed basically nothing and the album is coming out in 3 weeks.

Edited September 4, 2024Sep 4 by Sour Candy

That's a terrible statement, though :lol:

 

She basically talks about random stuff not related to the question!!

 

"What do you think about working with Doctor Luke?"

 

"I'm a mother now! I had a child. Her name is Daisy. I am married to Orlando Bloom. Did I tell you I was once married to Russell Brand? But that didn't work out. I have been working on my dancing between this album and the last. This album is more retro, which is why it has a retro name. I wanted to go into space once. I wish we could go on vacations to the moon. Oh, golly. That would be sweet! I'm hoping to get a cameo on Doc Martin,like A List superstar, Si gourmet Weaver. Tonight I'm going to have a baked potato. I made a literal heart, yo!!"