15 minutes ago, Iz 🌟 said:

It's nationalisation without compensation* day (for steel), based.

Emergency session for Parliament pushing through the nationalisation in Scunthorpe seems to be going well and well received across the political spectrum, always nice to see.

*sure, there is some cost associated from it, but from my understanding it's mostly ripping it out of control of the owners no matter what they say.

And how do they plan to make money without tariffs?

It’s pointless saving an industry if you’re not going to protect it while in operation. Without tariffs it’ll just continue to lose millions per months except now the taxpayer will be picking up the bill

jesus christ you're like a loaded spring waiting to seize upon any point to make your 'tariff good' dogma look good, even when it's about something happening that based on your posts lately, you should support, as it is a somewhat realistic approach to saving manufacturing in a part of the industry of a modern Western country.

With the market value so low, there's not that much cost, and for the future: do you know that it needs to make a profit? It's a keystone industry that can support defence and others within its operation, I can't say I know enough about where its steel goes to confidently make this assertion, but bringing it within the nationalised sphere is good strategically for the government, and protects its manufacturing jobs from the private market.

this is more about securing our own supplies of steel than affecting the economic market of steel anyway

44 minutes ago, Iz 🌟 said:

jesus christ you're like a loaded spring waiting to seize upon any point to make your 'tariff good' dogma look good, even when it's about something happening that based on your posts lately, you should support, as it is a somewhat realistic approach to saving manufacturing in a part of the industry of a modern Western country.

With the market value so low, there's not that much cost, and for the future: do you know that it needs to make a profit? It's a keystone industry that can support defence and others within its operation, I can't say I know enough about where its steel goes to confidently make this assertion, but bringing it within the nationalised sphere is good strategically for the government, and protects its manufacturing jobs from the private market.

this is more about securing our own supplies of steel than affecting the economic market of steel anyway

Definitely, but Liam has somewhat of a point (broken clock right twice a day type of thing). With the high tariffs on China from the US, they may flood the market causing many sorts of goods to become cheaper in other markets. Steel is a prime example as China have been flooding the european market (+ others) over the last few years causing a lot of difficulty for european steel makers. The only way to combat that would be to make the Chinese imports more expensie via tactical tariffs (I believe there are already some steel tariffs against China).

Nationalisation makes sense as if the government let it go under it would make the UK unable to make virgin/new steel. Also the site is currently owned by a chinese firm which makes the situation all the more ironic I guess.

Edited April 12Apr 12 by Envoirment

4 hours ago, Envoirment said:

Definitely, but Liam has somewhat of a point (broken clock right twice a day type of thing). With the high tariffs on China from the US, they may flood the market causing many sorts of goods to become cheaper in other markets. Steel is a prime example as China have been flooding the european market (+ others) over the last few years causing a lot of difficulty for european steel makers. The only way to combat that would be to make the Chinese imports more expensie via tactical tariffs (I believe there are already some steel tariffs against China).

Nationalisation makes sense as if the government let it go under it would make the UK unable to make virgin/new steel. Also the site is currently owned by a chinese firm which makes the situation all the more ironic I guess.

Sure, and there might be an argument for avenues of profitability, potentially including steel tariffs in the future should this actually go into full nationalisation... but I think it's a limited and relatively unimportant point to make right now, as under a nationalised industry, an interim good like steel isn't facing many of the same price pressures as other goods because it can go on in part to be used by other public bodies, and the company's profitability is secondary to its strategic importance, that's why today's legislation went through, which isn't nationalisation, just the Business Secretary now has control over the plant so that the Chinese owners couldn't shutter the plant and halt its important productions.

Plus I'm sure Liam is the type of person who likes to see governments do things, and this is a pretty clear example of the government just doing things very effectively when faced with an emergency; it's the type of action I would expect him to support. It's surprising that that is his angle because tariffs aren't even on anyone's radar on this topic, all the major parties are supporting this move, and nationalisation =/= protectionism.

Honestly the greater concern is that it's a strategy that goes against the good work that Miliband was doing to move our energy grid more renewable, if it turns out we're continuing to make steel.

I can’t think of the last time an arrest warrant has been issued against a British MP by another country -

BBC News

Bangladesh issues arrest warrant for British MP Tulip Siddiq

Siddiq is one of 50 names in an arrest warrant linked to allegations of corruption by her aunt, the former PM of Bangladesh.

There’s a strong possibility that this will end up with a by-election (the Liberal Democrats are already looking for candidates to stand according to the Tomorrow’s MPs Twitter/X account).

BBC News

UK and India agree trade deal after three years of talks

The deal will improve access for UK whisky and cars to the Indian market, and cut taxes on India's clothing and footwear exports.

Pretty astonishing trade deal where they’ve made Indian workers exempt from paying national insurance. This is like red meat to reform. Good lord

32 minutes ago, Liam S said:

BBC News

UK and India agree trade deal after three years of talks

The deal will improve access for UK whisky and cars to the Indian market, and cut taxes on India's clothing and footwear exports.

Pretty astonishing trade deal where they’ve made Indian workers exempt from paying national insurance. This is like red meat to reform. Good lord

Which just shows why Reform are terrible for Britain. Focusing on a tiny point which is temporary vs what looks on the face of it, a pretty decent deal considering we have a poor hand to deal with. Not sure how this compares to the EU deal (or even if there is one) but that's your benchmark. The markets and currency have responded positively so on the face of it, it will be economically benefical for us.

24 minutes ago, Rooney said:

Which just shows why Reform are terrible for Britain. Focusing on a tiny point which is temporary vs what looks on the face of it, a pretty decent deal considering we have a poor hand to deal with. Not sure how this compares to the EU deal (or even if there is one) but that's your benchmark. The markets and currency have responded positively so on the face of it, it will be economically benefical for us.

It raises the possibility of making Indian workers more favourable to British for companies it risks increasing immigration further it’s an all round bad policy on many fronts and has been panned by most parties including a few left leaning ones. Believe it or not the markets aren’t the litmus test on whether a deal is good. economically beneficial how? What do India have to offer? You really think they’re going to go nuts over British whisky. From that wild Mauritius fleecing to this it’s not looking like we have people making deals in Britain’s best interest at all

3 minutes ago, Liam S said:

It raises the possibility of making Indian workers more favourable to British for companies it risks increasing immigration further it’s an all round bad policy on many fronts and has been panned by most parties including a few left leaning ones. Believe it or not the markets aren’t the litmus test on whether a deal is good. economically beneficial how? What do India have to offer? You really think they’re going to go nuts over British whisky. From that wild Mauritius fleecing to this it’s not looking like we have people making deals in Britain’s best interest at all

The impact on immigration will be absolutely miniscule. Any jobs they do get preference in will be for the AI industry, for which the UK is a growth hub and needs the talent. So I don't know, seems like a good way to grow the economy and have people splashing the cash in the UK. India is a massive economy and will only grow over the next 10-20 years. If you're telling me this is a bad deal cos someone from India is gonna come and take your job, that's not happening. Markets are a good indication because it shows how investors are reacting to the situation as they expect their money to grow, in turn make even more money.

It was rumoured that increased visas for Indians were on the table for this deal - this is not the case, no extra visas are being issued. From what I have read, the NI exclusion only happens in certain circumstances (like if they are workers temporarily sent to the UK by their company who are paying equivalent contributions in India) so that just makes international operations more flexible for multinational companies moving workers around rather than any sort of permanently hiring workers. If that was going to impact any hiring decisions the workers would already be offshored in India. It also just makes India equivalent to EU countries and the US in that regard, and India already has this sort of deal with a number of EU countries.

But I should expect Reform fans to not read into the detail of a good achievement for Britain and instead stamp their feet about an imagined reality where a good economic and trade achievement is actually the Labour elite planning to import yet more brown people.

The reciprocal NI arrangement is common in trade deals. The last government arranged the same thing with the EU. In this case, Indian staff of an Indian company who work briefly in the UK will not pay NI. They will continue to pay the Indian equivalent and will be entitled to Indian benefits. This is yet another story blown up out of all proportion by right-wing nutjobs.

Good achievement for Britain getting whisky tariffs down to 75% great job. So far the UK has given billions to Ukraine, used military planes to spy for Israel not responded to Trump’s tariffs leading to a one way tariff, got fleeced by Mauritius and India and you’re thinking this is a great deal. Not only is it another in a long line of bad deals I’m looking around and not seeing one remotely good deal for Britain. It all seems to be good for the other countries. Of course they’ll just further financially weaken the country then end up cutting things hoping people blame billionaires instead of their incompetence

29 minutes ago, Liam S said:

Good achievement for Britain getting whisky tariffs down to 75% great job. So far the UK has given billions to Ukraine, used military planes to spy for Israel not responded to Trump’s tariffs leading to a one way tariff, got fleeced by Mauritius and India and you’re thinking this is a great deal. Not only is it another in a long line of bad deals I’m looking around and not seeing one remotely good deal for Britain. It all seems to be good for the other countries. Of course they’ll just further financially weaken the country then end up cutting things hoping people blame billionaires instead of their incompetence

So you think the response to Putin should have been "Fine, take Ukraine. Are there any other countries you'd like to take over?".

33 minutes ago, Liam S said:

Good achievement for Britain getting whisky tariffs down to 75% great job. So far the UK has given billions to Ukraine, used military planes to spy for Israel not responded to Trump’s tariffs leading to a one way tariff, got fleeced by Mauritius and India and you’re thinking this is a great deal. Not only is it another in a long line of bad deals I’m looking around and not seeing one remotely good deal for Britain. It all seems to be good for the other countries. Of course they’ll just further financially weaken the country then end up cutting things hoping people blame billionaires instead of their incompetence

The EU is a trading bloc similar in size to the USA. That gives it a lot of power in trade negotiations. Now that we are no longer in the EU, the UK is a piddly little country desperate for any trade deals it can get. That is why, under the last government, we did such a terrible trade deal with Australia.

32 minutes ago, Liam S said:

Good achievement for Britain getting whisky tariffs down to 75% great job. So far the UK has given billions to Ukraine, used military planes to spy for Israel not responded to Trump’s tariffs leading to a one way tariff, got fleeced by Mauritius and India and you’re thinking this is a great deal. Not only is it another in a long line of bad deals I’m looking around and not seeing one remotely good deal for Britain. It all seems to be good for the other countries. Of course they’ll just further financially weaken the country then end up cutting things hoping people blame billionaires instead of their incompetence

And what amazing deals will Reform do? I'll tell you they will be absolutely shite or won't happen. Probably spending their budget making sure we have the correct flags up whilst completely oblivious to regional flags.

Guessing you've read the detail to the whole Trade deal on the Gov website with what the assessed overall impact is? I'll summarise, it's good. And even more laughable is Reform getting their knickers in a twist without fully understanding social security contributions.

They have to come up with a reason for why the Labour trade deal is bad, so they focus on this, a common arrangement in trade deals, because it vaguely looks like allowing the undesirables in. Yet they were also the people talking about Brexit benefits being able to do trade deals with the whole world. This is us... successfully completing trade deals with the whole world (well, one of its fastest growing markets!). The prosperity we get from this isn't going to be limited to whisky tariffs, sheesh.

1 hour ago, Liam S said:

Good achievement for Britain getting whisky tariffs down to 75% great job. So far the UK has given billions to Ukraine, used military planes to spy for Israel not responded to Trump’s tariffs leading to a one way tariff, got fleeced by Mauritius and India and you’re thinking this is a great deal. Not only is it another in a long line of bad deals I’m looking around and not seeing one remotely good deal for Britain. It all seems to be good for the other countries. Of course they’ll just further financially weaken the country then end up cutting things hoping people blame billionaires instead of their incompetence

Its funny how it never occurs to you that what YOU are doing with all of these posts could be reasonably construed as talking the country down, and that constantly criticising the UK's leader and leadership and consistently taking the most negative possible interpretation is exactly the kind of 'anti-Britain/anti-Britishness' that you also rail against.

Absolute Absolute joke about the NI I amongst others fuming

1 hour ago, Rough_edges said:

Absolute Absolute joke about the NI I amongst others fuming

Fuming about growing our economy. Not sure Reform fans will be happy until we’re all handing out rations and listening to white cliffs of Dover every evening.

16 hours ago, J00prstar said:

Its funny how it never occurs to you that what YOU are doing with all of these posts could be reasonably construed as talking the country down, and that constantly criticising the UK's leader and leadership and consistently taking the most negative possible interpretation is exactly the kind of 'anti-Britain/anti-Britishness' that you also rail against.

The country is already near rock bottom unfortunately I don’t command much power to change anything however the people that do are determined to reach that that bottom. I don’t expect someone who thought Starmer was doing a great job when his approval was minus 60 to have a balanced take but this is not a good deal. These aren’t deal makers or businessmen. If you think cheerleading selling the country down the river is a wise thing to do I’d suggest thinking how we got here in the first place.

17 hours ago, Suedehead2 said:

The EU is a trading bloc similar in size to the USA. That gives it a lot of power in trade negotiations. Now that we are no longer in the EU, the UK is a piddly little country desperate for any trade deals it can get. That is why, under the last government, we did such a terrible trade deal with Australia.

The UK was a powerhouse until it sold itself down the river due to this mentality. The UK had a bigger economy than China less than 30 years ago and is now celebrating being humiliated by India as a win. It’s diabolical. But this is a country scared of using tariffs. India is reducing tariffs down to 75% and Starmer is eating it up. What kind of nonsense is this? I would have 150% tariffs on everything from India until they show the UK some respect.

17 hours ago, Rooney said:

And what amazing deals will Reform do? I'll tell you they will be absolutely shite or won't happen. Probably spending their budget making sure we have the correct flags up whilst completely oblivious to regional flags.

Guessing you've read the detail to the whole Trade deal on the Gov website with what the assessed overall impact is? I'll summarise, it's good. And even more laughable is Reform getting their knickers in a twist without fully understanding social security contributions.

Nobody needs the detail. We know how it works. India are touting this as an incredible deal FOR THEM hailing the national insurance part in particular. A country with a reputation of exploiting visas now has an open goal to have dependents or set up companies and easily exploit the system. What benefit to the economy are you even talking about? There is no reason this will be any benefit. At best minuscule while causing more problems that eradicate such a small benefit. Of course you support bad deals you just think in terms of the markets. Maybe when everybody is wearing a mask and the air is rotten and a 1 bedroom box room costs 5k a month you’ll see sense but I doubt it. Who knows what reform will do but hopefully they’d be looking out for British interests not India’s.