5 hours ago, RabbitFurCoat said:

This is what I don't get about Reform and their supporters. They bang on about how the tories and labour are both the same and a full of useless incompetent liars etc. and there's some justification in that. Yet not only are the most useless and incompetent of those liars accepted into the party, they're actively celebrated, and then try to sell themselves as somehow being different. There's always been the argument of "stick a red/blue rosette on a donkey and X constituency will always vote that colour" but they're no different - you can put a turquoise tie on any old moron and every Reform supporter will come out to bat for them

I always imagine the same happened in the 1920s when Labour were the future now. A load of liberals just changed to a red Rossett or a blue one depending on the constituency.

Ch4 news were at the Reform Party conference and the amount of former tories they found was ridiculous - Johnathon Gullis sitting lobbying with the business interests was particularly horrible to see!

On 04/09/2025 at 19:48, Rooney said:

I wonder if this sort of stuff will ultimately be negative for Reform. In Farage's midst to make the party more electable, they essentially become the Tories.

It’s an interesting situation. While I don’t know if reform are psychologically astute you have to remember the last time a party other than Labour or conservatives won true power was 1906. With that in mind there has to be an element of they can’t really win, it’s a protest party, they’ll fall away/implode in the back of people’s minds. So if you have visibly known people switching sides, career politicians switching to reform it psychologically tells people they think they’re going to win. They want to sneak into a job etc. Plus you can’t really give the Conservatives a chance to regroup since if they do reform could again quickly go to looking like a temporary protest thing. If you keep seeing defectors it just further says no point supporting them which benefits reform the most. Away from that it is a bit of a Tory-lite vibe which I’m sure is off putting to some but probably not enough to lose votes.

On 05/09/2025 at 15:55, J00prstar said:

So since the person the Epping protesters were protesing has now been found guilty and removed from the hotel, I take it they will all be packing up and going home?

Given that they were protesting this situation and the situation has resolved itself, it woud surely be in violation of those claims if they stayed there and kept protesting everyone else in the hotel?

If anything the opposite it justifies the protests and suggests if they started earlier that girl wouldn’t have been assaulted and traumatised for life. Given the latest developments it seems their protests worked. A rare case of people power actually having an impact.

32 minutes ago, Liam Sota said:

It’s an interesting situation. While I don’t know if reform are psychologically astute you have to remember the last time a party other than Labour or conservatives won true power was 1906. With that in mind there has to be an element of they can’t really win, it’s a protest party, they’ll fall away/implode in the back of people’s minds. So if you have visibly known people switching sides, career politicians switching to reform it psychologically tells people they think they’re going to win. They want to sneak into a job etc. Plus you can’t really give the Conservatives a chance to regroup since if they do reform could again quickly go to looking like a temporary protest thing. If you keep seeing defectors it just further says no point supporting them which benefits reform the most. Away from that it is a bit of a Tory-lite vibe which I’m sure is off putting to some but probably not enough to lose votes.

If anything the opposite it justifies the protests and suggests if they started earlier that girl wouldn’t have been assaulted and traumatised for life. Given the latest developments it seems their protests worked. A rare case of people power actually having an impact.

Every single new-born baby is a potential criminal. They are also a potential brilliant surgeon, great entertainer, hugely successful author, or the person who eliminates cancer. What is your point?

1 hour ago, Liam Sota said:

It’s an interesting situation. While I don’t know if reform are psychologically astute you have to remember the last time a party other than Labour or conservatives won true power was 1906. With that in mind there has to be an element of they can’t really win, it’s a protest party, they’ll fall away/implode in the back of people’s minds. So if you have visibly known people switching sides, career politicians switching to reform it psychologically tells people they think they’re going to win. They want to sneak into a job etc. Plus you can’t really give the Conservatives a chance to regroup since if they do reform could again quickly go to looking like a temporary protest thing. If you keep seeing defectors it just further says no point supporting them which benefits reform the most. Away from that it is a bit of a Tory-lite vibe which I’m sure is off putting to some but probably not enough to lose votes.

If anything the opposite it justifies the protests and suggests if they started earlier that girl wouldn’t have been assaulted and traumatised for life. Given the latest developments it seems their protests worked. A rare case of people power actually having an impact.

How does it justify the protests?

Should we protest preemptively at schools around the country, given teachers are frequently identified as paedophiles?

38 minutes ago, Suedehead2 said:

Every single new-born baby is a potential criminal. They are also a potential brilliant surgeon, great entertainer, hugely successful author, or the person who eliminates cancer. What is your point?

His point is that he believes this country should be for white people. Let's call a spade a spade here.

Brown immigrants are all potential criminals so should be protested against and demeaned and treated poorly until they get the hint to fvck off. Meanwhile, home grown criminals? No preemptive or preventative action needed there.

1 hour ago, Liam Sota said:

It’s an interesting situation. While I don’t know if reform are psychologically astute you have to remember the last time a party other than Labour or conservatives won true power was 1906. With that in mind there has to be an element of they can’t really win, it’s a protest party, they’ll fall away/implode in the back of people’s minds. So if you have visibly known people switching sides, career politicians switching to reform it psychologically tells people they think they’re going to win. They want to sneak into a job etc. Plus you can’t really give the Conservatives a chance to regroup since if they do reform could again quickly go to looking like a temporary protest thing. If you keep seeing defectors it just further says no point supporting them which benefits reform the most. Away from that it is a bit of a Tory-lite vibe which I’m sure is off putting to some but probably not enough to lose votes.

If anything the opposite it justifies the protests and suggests if they started earlier that girl wouldn’t have been assaulted and traumatised for life. Given the latest developments it seems their protests worked. A rare case of people power actually having an impact.

I think the YouGov poll that Iz posted was pretty telling. Seems people view Reform as a protest, but they don't all trust Farage. They will obviously do well, but I'm hoping there are enough non-stupid people to stop the madness. I think there wil be so much tactical voting in the GE to stop them.

Might just be me, but I'm not sure their conference has gone down as well in the media as they may have been hoping. The morons can't even sign the national anthem right, which tells you all you need to know about this group of grifters,

1 hour ago, Suedehead2 said:

Every single new-born baby is a potential criminal. They are also a potential brilliant surgeon, great entertainer, hugely successful author, or the person who eliminates cancer. What is your point?

This makes sense to you? They aren’t new born babies. My point is Labour Party have indicated they’ll be shutting them down and potentially military barracks instead. Protests succeeded. Families can sleep easier at night much to the bizarre disappointment of some.

57 minutes ago, J00prstar said:

How does it justify the protests?

Should we protest preemptively at schools around the country, given teachers are frequently identified as paedophiles?

Ever heard of an DBS check? You argued against your own point.

56 minutes ago, J00prstar said:

His point is that he believes this country should be for white people. Let's call a spade a spade here.

Brown immigrants are all potential criminals so should be protested against and demeaned and treated poorly until they get the hint to fvck off. Meanwhile, home grown criminals? No preemptive or preventative action needed there.

Nobody is going compromise their families safety because of your naivety. If you can’t get your head around that, too bad.

37 minutes ago, Rooney said:

I think the YouGov poll that Iz posted was pretty telling. Seems people view Reform as a protest, but they don't all trust Farage. They will obviously do well, but I'm hoping there are enough non-stupid people to stop the madness. I think there wil be so much tactical voting in the GE to stop them.

Might just be me, but I'm not sure their conference has gone down as well in the media as they may have been hoping. The morons can't even sign the national anthem right, which tells you all you need to know about this group of grifters,

The conference from bits I saw was a mess. They should just stick to immigration and that’s really all they need. Lee Anderson in charge of welfare sounds like a disaster and the other stuff seemed amateur and gimmicky but then again I saw a lot of this with Trump and in the end it didn’t really hurt the appeal

I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form.

Frankly, YOU shouldn't be welcome in this country. They're traitors. Go on and vote for them and watch them sell Britain to Russia and America while saying ohhhhh, we TRIED to stop the immigrants but the elite/the UN/global laws stopped us. Guess we'll just keep taking the salary and do absolutely fvck all but gut the country's coffers and set you all at each other's throats while we point and laugh like the billionaires in Squid Games.

39 minutes ago, J00prstar said:

I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form.

Reform are going to be at 0% in upcoming polls after this bombshell

Edited Monday at 01:152 days by Liam Sota

17 hours ago, Liam Sota said:

This makes sense to you? They aren’t new born babies. My point is Labour Party have indicated they’ll be shutting them down and potentially military barracks instead. Protests succeeded. Families can sleep easier at night much to the bizarre disappointment of some.

Ever heard of an DBS check? You argued against your own point.

Nobody is going compromise their families safety because of your naivety. If you can’t get your head around that, too bad.

The conference from bits I saw was a mess. They should just stick to immigration and that’s really all they need. Lee Anderson in charge of welfare sounds like a disaster and the other stuff seemed amateur and gimmicky but then again I saw a lot of this with Trump and in the end it didn’t really hurt the appeal

Are you more unintelligent than I realised or does the racism trump anything else in your brain? Mods, warn me, ban me, I don’t care. I’m fed up of tip toeing around here and not calling racism what it is.

Suedehead’s point is that there are potential rapists throughout the country-they don’t all arrive on small boats. They are born here, grow here, get radicalised here and are often white. What are you going to do about them?

You’ve clearly heard of DBS check but clearly lack the understanding of how they work. They only inform of actual convictions, if you’ve flown under the radar and not been caught then nothing comes up. Why do you think the former colleague I mentioned was able to work in a school for four years? Now he’s been to prison, it’ll always turn up on his DBS. But until he had been, it never did and he was there as a present danger to young people. FYI he was white and born in the UK.

Children are potentially in danger from white British born people all the time. Why do you think a family’s safety of only compromised by the existence of an asylum seeker.

I’m behind Jupiter 100% here.

16 hours ago, J00prstar said:

I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form.

Frankly, YOU shouldn't be welcome in this country. They're traitors. Go on and vote for them and watch them sell Britain to Russia and America while saying ohhhhh, we TRIED to stop the immigrants but the elite/the UN/global laws stopped us. Guess we'll just keep taking the salary and do absolutely fvck all but gut the country's coffers and set you all at each other's throats while we point and laugh like the billionaires in Squid Games.

Well, quite.

Reform are quite proudly accepting all sorts of Tories from the dregs of the 2019-2024 Tory Government. The most corrupt, useless, self-serving and performatively cruel of the whole sorry lot of recent Tory governments. If they need experience of government that badly, they could look literally anywhere else, but that would require them to not have the views of reprobates and opportunistic disaster capitalists.

Though if they do absolutely nothing useful in government that would actually be one of the better outcomes in the scenarios where they win power, we're seeing quite clearly what happens when right populists really start wrecking shit across the Atlantic.

A couple of quotes from recent posts - "I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form" and "I'm hoping there are enough non-stupid people to stop the madness".

You're entitled to your opinion but you're not going to stop someone from voting for Reform by calling them stupid or saying you have zero respect for them.

The fact is over half the voters voted to leave the EU. With those sorts of numbers you can't say every leave voter is a certain type of person. We all know people who voted out whether we know about it or not and not everybody has the same reasons. I even know people who originally come from EU countries who voted out.

Then there's the general opinion that the Conservatives did a terrible job and Labour are doing no better so something needs to change.

Aside from those 2 parties there's only 3 other options in many areas of the country. There's the Liberal Democrats and the Greens who say we will rejoin the EU if they get in which is hardly an incentive for those who wanted to leave. Then you're left with Reform. I'm not suggesting it's the only option but it's easy to see why one may think it's their only option. It doesn't make them a bad person.

40 minutes ago, My Random Music said:

A couple of quotes from recent posts - "I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form" and "I'm hoping there are enough non-stupid people to stop the madness".

You're entitled to your opinion but you're not going to stop someone from voting for Reform by calling them stupid or saying you have zero respect for them.

The fact is over half the voters voted to leave the EU. With those sorts of numbers you can't say every leave voter is a certain type of person. We all know people who voted out whether we know about it or not and not everybody has the same reasons. I even know people who originally come from EU countries who voted out.

Then there's the general opinion that the Conservatives did a terrible job and Labour are doing no better so something needs to change.

Aside from those 2 parties there's only 3 other options in many areas of the country. There's the Liberal Democrats and the Greens who say we will rejoin the EU if they get in which is hardly an incentive for those who wanted to leave. Then you're left with Reform. I'm not suggesting it's the only option but it's easy to see why one may think it's their only option. It doesn't make them a bad person.

A comfortable majority now say that leaving the EU was a stupid idea. The Lib Dems and the Greens need to exploit that. They should be asking why voters should take any notice of the politician whose only achievement is to achieve a vote in favour of something now seen as a terrible mistake.

How well do you think saying 'I think Keir Starmer's doing an amazing job' would go down in most public conversations right now? That's the point of the media constantly attacking Labour, negative perceptions feed themselves for a large part until even most centre-left voters, who are generally quite happy with what the government is doing, aren't rushing to defend them because it's not worth the effort.

Follow the same logic for disparaging Reform-curious voters, and it works to make supporting Reform an unattractive prospect to voice in polite company. I see people say this shit, that calling people who vote Reform stupid won't win you the argument, and it's almost always Reform-supporting losers frightened because it does. Helps that it's pretty accurate. Besides, we're not going to convert the faithful, but it helps a lot to point out to voters who are curious about them how batshit, corrupt and just as filled with the same disaster politicians as always they are.

If the powers that be are so intent on trying their best to get a Reform victory, then we need to do whatever we can to stop that happening, and disparaging them and calling them crazy is the easiest and best way to do that.

also as Suede says, things have flipped, but really, the notion that a large proportion of floating voters still have Remain/Leave lines as a principal concern is laughable.

On 04/09/2025 at 20:25, Iz 🌟 said:

Nadine Dorries defects to Reform. 😂

And of course there's a tweet for that 😅

58 minutes ago, My Random Music said:

A couple of quotes from recent posts - "I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form" and "I'm hoping there are enough non-stupid people to stop the madness".

You're entitled to your opinion but you're not going to stop someone from voting for Reform by calling them stupid or saying you have zero respect for them.

The fact is over half the voters voted to leave the EU. With those sorts of numbers you can't say every leave voter is a certain type of person. We all know people who voted out whether we know about it or not and not everybody has the same reasons. I even know people who originally come from EU countries who voted out.

Then there's the general opinion that the Conservatives did a terrible job and Labour are doing no better so something needs to change.

Aside from those 2 parties there's only 3 other options in many areas of the country. There's the Liberal Democrats and the Greens who say we will rejoin the EU if they get in which is hardly an incentive for those who wanted to leave. Then you're left with Reform. I'm not suggesting it's the only option but it's easy to see why one may think it's their only option. It doesn't make them a bad person.

Over half??? Hardly. People living abroad couldn't vote - you know, the ones most sffected by it - and nor could 16/17 year olds.

5 minutes ago, Iz 🌟 said:

How well do you think saying 'I think Keir Starmer's doing an amazing job' would go down in most public conversations right now? That's the point of the media constantly attacking Labour, negative perceptions feed themselves for a large part until even most centre-left voters, who are generally quite happy with what the government is doing, aren't rushing to defend them because it's not worth the effort.

Follow the same logic for disparaging Reform-curious voters, and it works to make supporting Reform an unattractive prospect to voice in polite company. I see people say this shit, that calling people who vote Reform stupid won't win you the argument, and it's almost always Reform-supporting losers frightened because it does. Helps that it's pretty accurate. Besides, we're not going to convert the faithful, but it helps a lot to point out to voters who are curious about them how batshit, corrupt and just as filled with the same disaster politicians as always.

If the powers that be are so intent on trying their best to get a Reform victory, then we need to do whatever we can to stop that happening, and disparaging them and calling them crazy is the easiest and best way to do that.

also as Suede says, the notion that a large proportion of floating voters still have Remain/Leave lines as a principal concern is laughable.

Quite true. Reform definitely have the polls at the moment, but the data behind the polls makes some of Farage's moves quite obvious. Again, not sure pulling loads of ex-Tories in is going to be really helpful. mainly as these are some of the most slimest Tories going. But I suppose even in their minds if they don't become the biggest Party, they are likely to overtake the Tories and become the formal opposition..

I also do agree withe wider point above about it's not really the way to attack Reform voters and not show them any respect. I feel that's unhelpful. They are going to get 3-4 million votes regardless - but there are a lot of people who you can convice not to vote Reform. These people are not your friends. I actually don't think all their policies are too bad, but their MAGA strategy to feed off division, culture wars and to feed off voters' naievty doesn't cut through to me. The people controlling Reform are not your friends and they think of people as uselss idiots.

I do think Labour need to at least show they are making people's lives better though.

not someone thinking people haven't changed their minds about brexit 10 years later

I recall it being widely assumed that we'd vote to stay in the EU prior to the referendum but we didn't. Assuming the statement that a comfortable majority now think leaving the EU was a terrible idea is true the fact is we've seen the exponential growth of a party born out of Brexit. Yes people do change their minds but that works in both directions and yes it may no longer be ones primary concern but are that many people really going to vote for a party who are going to do the complete opposite of what they'd previously voted for.

I said over half the voters voted to leave and naturally that doesn't include those who were ineligible to vote or indeed those who chose not to vote.

Yes the media do play their part and in the case of the EU referendum the issue was most sources were just telling you which way to vote rather than present the pros and cons of both sides. At the end of the day nobody is right or wrong to vote for any party. Yes I have my own views and opinions on things but nobody is going to tell me how to vote and I'm never going to tell anyone else how to vote and I'm certainly not going to judge somebody for voting for a party I'm not going to vote for.

2 hours ago, My Random Music said:

A couple of quotes from recent posts - "I have zero respect for anyone who supports Reform in any way shape or form" and "I'm hoping there are enough non-stupid people to stop the madness".

You're entitled to your opinion but you're not going to stop someone from voting for Reform by calling them stupid or saying you have zero respect for them.

The fact is over half the voters voted to leave the EU. With those sorts of numbers you can't say every leave voter is a certain type of person. We all know people who voted out whether we know about it or not and not everybody has the same reasons. I even know people who originally come from EU countries who voted out.

Then there's the general opinion that the Conservatives did a terrible job and Labour are doing no better so something needs to change.

Aside from those 2 parties there's only 3 other options in many areas of the country. There's the Liberal Democrats and the Greens who say we will rejoin the EU if they get in which is hardly an incentive for those who wanted to leave. Then you're left with Reform. I'm not suggesting it's the only option but it's easy to see why one may think it's their only option. It doesn't make them a bad person.

So their minds are already made up. Fine.

My major issue with stupid people nowadays, and with the parties that enable them, is they tell people that are stupid that they aren't. Knowledge, experience, expertise are all treated like optional, nebulous things that don't actually mean anything, that smart people or qualified people are just pretending in some way about, that people who just know a little about something unrelated are just as good at.

And that's bunkum. Not only is it bunkum but it actually RUNS CONTRARY TO what the traditional working-class people and yes, I include social conservatives, have believed.

Again I speak from experience so I can say it, although I'm sure someone's going to snipe into me any second for emotive-ising the discussion etc, but - conservative people have traditionally had a strong belief in hierarchy and knowing your place. And to an extent, that means trusting authority and doing what you're told because authority knows more than you and authority knows best. It's for that reason, and institutional trust baked into it too, rather than your own understanding, that you'd do what the doctor said, or what the vicar said, or what the policeman said or other community leaders. Even the reason that family members might look to grandma or grandad for advice that would hold heavier weight than the advice of their peers. That was how the world was understood to work.

That's why its TOTAL BULLSHIT that Reform and all of Farage's other outfits before it are blaring this 'had enough of experts', anyone can be an expert, school of hard knocks bollocks and encouraging people to do things like reject vaccines - and I don't just mean covid, stuff we've had for DECADES like MMR, blasting conspiracy theories with zero evidence base whatsoever and so on and so forth.

It's fine not to know enough about something to be able to make an informed decision. In the past, more people knew their place and knew - FROM EXPERIENCE in some cases, that defying the doctor or defying the vicar or defying the safety guidelines etc. was likely to lead to swift and unpleasant negative repercussions, at which point others in your community would jeer and mock you for being so daft as to not follow the basic rules. That WAS - and to an extent still IS in some ways - the base of British small-c conservatism.

Nowadays what do we have? People fvcking around and everyone being too polite to call them out on it, and then when the shit hits the fan, the people that fvcked around are crying that it's not their fault, and Daddy Farage is on tv across all five main channels soothing them and saying of course not baby, YOU weren't wrong, it's ALL THE AUTHORITIES that advised you otherwise. THEY CONSPIRED to give you personally a bad time, it's not due to your own actions.

People need to be suspicious of sheisters like him and people could do with being socially shamed again. And that's one of the reasons I'm not going to stop calling stupid people stupid.