7 minutes ago, JosephStyles said:

What a strangely personal remark in a debate that, on my side, hasn't been remotely personal or loaded against anyone!

You've misinterpreted my post, regardless. All I said was that "taking women at their word" didn't seem to go for Catherine Harding in some cases. At no point did I say she's getting the "brunt of the criticism" so I'd recommend re-reading what I said.

I've seen plenty of comments on Twitter from people defending Chappell who say "what happened to believing women?" and then in the same breath, they'll tear apart Catherine's statement and version of events.

As I said, there's an entirely likely scenario where they're both correct. But okay, make personal digs at me if you wish!

You literally said Catherine was receiving the brunt of the criticism. It’s clear that she isn’t. It was an odd thing to say as no one is necessarily disbelieving her in the way they are with Chappell. Chappell doesn’t even disbelieve her version of events, she simply put across her own. It was a daft thing to say.

I’m just saying what I’m seeing. There are a number of people in this thread who have decided Chappell ordered a security guard to make a little girl cry for nothing and new evidence won’t even make them question themselves. And there have been many implications in this thread that people are only defending Chappell because they’re fans.

Just now, T Boy said:

You literally said Catherine was receiving the brunt of the criticism. It’s clear that she isn’t. It was an odd thing to say as no one is necessarily disbelieving her in the way they are with Chappell. Chappell doesn’t even disbelieve her version of events, she simply put across her own. It was a daft thing to say.

I’m just saying what I’m seeing. There are a number of people in this thread who have decided Chappell ordered a security guard to make a little girl cry for nothing and new evidence won’t even make them question themselves. And there have been many implications in this thread that people are only defending Chappell because they’re fans.

I did not "literally" say that, read my post below:

8 hours ago, JosephStyles said:

To be entirely fair, we also have another woman who has shared her side of the story and her viewpoint doesn't seem to be receiving the same level of respect! (Not saying this is you btw)

(I'm not saying you can only believe one or the other, there's absolutely a scenario in which they're both correct)

To clarify, if my post isn't self-explanatory (given I typed it quickly on my phone while on a trip at work), my point was that "believe women" is being used by many on social media (I've seen countless tweets) as a defence of Chappell, but the same people have called Catherine a liar or other unfair remarks. This is not saying she is receiving the brunt of the criticism and my post does not "literally" say that - you've put words in my mouth.

Each time I've posted in this thread, I've tried to be well-reasoned and considerate that we don't know the full story as we didn't witness it, and there doesn't seem to be any independent third party who saw it unfold either, I've even said as much a couple of times. I don't see what the second part of your post has to do with me so I'm quite disappointed the thread's gone in this direction when there's a fair debate to be had around the subject.

2 minutes ago, JosephStyles said:

I did not "literally" say that, read my post below:

To clarify, if my post isn't self-explanatory (given I typed it quickly on my phone while on a trip at work), my point was that "believe women" is being used by many on social media (I've seen countless tweets) as a defence of Chappell, but the same people have called Catherine a liar or other unfair remarks. This is not saying she is receiving the brunt of the criticism and my post does not "literally" say that - you've put words in my mouth.

Each time I've posted in this thread, I've tried to be well-reasoned and considerate that we don't know the full story as we didn't witness it, and there doesn't seem to be any independent third party who saw it unfold either, I've even said as much a couple of times. I don't see what the second part of your post has to do with me so I'm quite disappointed the thread's gone in this direction when there's a fair debate to be had around the subject.

The second part of my post is about the thread in general, not sure why you think it would be about you.

I’m just saying what I’m seeing in the thread. I’m calling out some hypocrisy when I see it. Surely that can be part of the debate? I’m really not comfortable with your implication that I’m somehow making this an unfair debate by speaking my truth? People have been free to speak theirs.

As for the part that was about you. It’s quite clear that no one has been giving Catherine vitriol on the scale others have been giving it to Chappell and I think you know that. In this very thread, people who have defending Chappell haven’t necessary called Catherine a liar (something neither Chappell nor the security guard have done either) and yet in this thread people have said that Chappell must be lying and that the security guard has been forced to cover for her!

1 minute ago, T Boy said:

The second part of my post is about the thread in general, not sure why you think it would be about you.

I’m just saying what I’m seeing in the thread. I’m calling out some hypocrisy when I see it. Surely that can be part of the debate? I’m really not comfortable with your implication that I’m somehow making this an unfair debate by speaking my truth? People have been free to speak theirs.

As for the part that was about you. It’s quite clear that no one has been giving Catherine vitriol on the scale others have been giving it to Chappell and I think you know that. In this very thread, people who have defending Chappell haven’t necessary called Catherine a liar (something neither Chappell nor the security guard have done either) and yet in this thread people have said that Chappell must be lying and that the security guard has been forced to cover for her!

I apologise if that's not the case - to be entirely fair to me, it was part of a post in which you directly quoted and replied to me, so I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption (especially given I'm autistic and without explicit language it's very easy for me to misunderstand, so my apologies).

I've also at no point said it's an unfair debate with you speaking your truth, I'm a bit confused by how my posts are being misinterpreted, but I don't understand why a personal line has been crossed - your first response to me was unfair and uncalled for.

And yes, I very much know nobody has been giving Catherine vitriol on the same level as Chappell. That's why I didn't claim that was the case. I also specifically mentioned Twitter, and in my original post, I did clarify that I wasn't replying to Lindsey who raised the point. I don't know why my post and repeated clarifications aren't sinking in!

This whole saga needs to be made into a 3-part ITV drama series, and I think Juno Temple is the perfect person to play her.

Probably stretch to 6 parts given chappels history of being rude to people, (id share the link to all the videos on instagram but someone keeps deleting the comments 🤷‍♂️)

5 hours ago, Nine And ¾ said:

No, that’s what you’re saying. I asked that because of the conclusions people make. There are so many online examples that leave a negative impression, so it’s natural to wonder if there are positive moments too (specifically about her interactions with people). Also, the argument that people are now making conclusions about her based on rumors isn’t entirely accurate, because there are videos where she pointed at a person at the airport and her bodyguard approached that person, and people are therefore more inclined to believe she did the same thing here, since she has done similar things in the past.

It’s simple. People are more likely to believe this story if similar things have happened before. That’s why I asked whether there are any moments online where you can see other side of her.

A much bigger point is why even make any conclusions about her? It’s incredibly parasocial and weird.

A young queer woman bursts into the big ranks and has to battle the patriarchal double standards even from within her own community.

4 hours ago, 777666jason said:

Probably stretch to 6 parts given chappels history of being rude to people, (id share the link to all the videos on instagram but someone keeps deleting the comments 🤷‍♂️)

Your posts yesterday were deleted by me; posting links to Instagram reels with a bunch of laughing emojis adds nothing to the conversation or debate, and just looks like you’re trying to get a reaction or antagonise people further.

1 minute ago, Calum said:

Your posts yesterday were deleted by me; posting links to Instagram reels with a bunch of laughing emojis adds nothing to the conversation or debate, and just looks like you’re trying to get a reaction or antagonise people further.

The second one didnt just back up her reacting to fans on increasing aggressive matters but ok fair enough

Describing Chappell as aggressive is.... a take

Somehow this has turned into a thread about taking down her character rather than discussing the issues surrounding the actual topic. You don't need to like someone or their music but to constantly call her things like rude, aggressive, egotistical, a liar etc is extremely tiring to read. Why engage in this discussion so much if you have nothing positive to say? And that's not just at one person because there's a good few of you in this topic that aren't actually contributing anything except vitriol.

This is the most I've posted anywhere in a good while but there's a lot of things that are important to me within this so I am going to keep voicing my thoughts.

Taking the "she's rude to people" narrative out of the equation, what is it exactly that rubs you the wrong way about her? (Directed towards the group of you that have said as much previously.) Is it because she's a queer woman in the public eye who doesn't fit into premade societal boxes of how she should behave? Or is it because the things she stands for don't align with your views? I'm just curious.

It is possible to like an artist and see both sides of an argument and still like an artist

Alexa play The rise and fall of a Midwest Princess

It is but you've only shown one side

1 hour ago, 777666jason said:

It is possible to like an artist and see both sides of an argument and still like an artist

Alexa play The rise and fall of a Midwest Princess

In what way have I ever said she rubs the wrong way , I have said given she has got history for aggressively hardly situations is it at all surprising people have those views

She is a phenomenal artist id even go to say a once in a generational talent, and wish she'd hurry up and release this second album 🤣