I don't think all the blame can lie at the door of R1. The playlist regularly drops songs that have just made the charts, in favour of newer songs. On the other hand, not many people wish to listen to a station that only plays new music at the expense of chart songs.

 

Back in the 70s and 80s R1 only ever played chart music but that never stopped new songs from charting. I have R1 playlists from 1977 and they are all full of songs from the top 30, many songs were only added when they charted - which begs the question, where did people hear new music back then? There were less radio stations back then and less outlets for hearing new songs.

 

It will be nice to take a look at those vintage playlists. Any change of posting them, please?

although once again, this wouldn't truly represent what people are buying which is the big problem

 

there are always going to be people who are unhappy with the rules...what if a song got no exposure for the first six months and then after its use in X Factor or something, sold enough downloads to be No.1 but couldn't be because it was disqualified

 

imagine if Singin' In The Rain had been disqualified! it would have made a mockery of the chart as the second most popular song of the week would be an undeserved No.1

Totally boring to the point that I dont even listen to the chart show anymore seeing as its the same songs every week. It used to be interesting with many new entries, now I fall asleep.

but you can't pick and choose which tracks to delete...yeah it would be great to get rid of Rockstar but imagine if a song had just started to gain some momentum having been available digitally for six months (i.e. like MIA - Paper Planes is now) and then it was deleted because its six months had passed. it would unfairly miss out on chart success...

 

for once, this problem is not in the hands of the OCC. I believe that they have done all they can now to make the chart as fair as possible. And everyone's moaning about Radio 1 where in my eyes, by far the biggest culprit is commercial radio...Radio 1 aren't still playing Chasing Cars, Rockstar and Sweet About Me 8 times a day, Capital FM and all of it's sister stations are...

 

and TV channels are to blame too...just look at Dance Wiv Me and Closer, still the top 2 in the TV airplay chart. Why??? they should move with the times and then perhaps everybody else would

I think part of the reason is that people seem to take a lot longer to discover music these days and/or the business has just died down badly.

 

Songs spending 25+ weeks in the top 75 are selling what a song could have sold in 15 weeks not so long ago. For example "Without Me" by Eminem sold just over 486K by the end of 2002 and he spent 16 weeks in the top 75. Now let's go to 2008 - Duffy has been in the top 75 for 29 weeks with "Mercy" and she is currently on just over 484K. Both songs are on similar sales totals but one has a much more 'impressive' chart run and I'm not sure what the problem is. Are people really deciding 29 weeks later that they should get round to buying that Duffy song they've heard so much about? or is it something else?

 

Maybe they need something like Top Of The Pops back so millions of people tune in and see the act performing the song so they know what it's called and what it sounds like so they can go and buy it - rather than finding out the artist 20 weeks later and clogging up the charts.

 

I'm sure Radio/TV airplay is just as important when it comes to songs sticking around, but as Rich said, it's not like Radio 1 is still playing "Rockstar", "Sweet About Me" etc. it's mostly commercial and local radio stations. I just think people are quite slow purchasing music these days as I pointed out - a 2002 track sold more in 16 weeks than a 2008 track has in 29 weeks.

that Mercy/Without Me comparison is a very good one and does prove how sales are more spread over a long time period now

 

I really don't understand why people are finally buying Mercy now...and you just know in post-xmas week it will go top 40 again...why? will people hear something new in the song that they missed throughout the year :lol:

that Mercy/Without Me comparison is a very good one and does prove how sales are more spread over a long time period now

 

I really don't understand why people are finally buying Mercy now...and you just know in post-xmas week it will go top 40 again...why? will people hear something new in the song that they missed throughout the year :lol:

 

They're more spread, but Mercy is the biggest selling single of the year, and probably song of the year. The same cant be said about "Without Me" ;)

They're more spread, but Mercy is the biggest selling single of the year, and probably song of the year. The same cant be said about "Without Me" ;)

Ok then, the biggest seller that year was Will Young with his debut, it also spent 16 weeks on the chart and sold 1,783,919 copies. I'm not sure what your point is. The biggest seller is selling much less these days, but it's still taking a long time to sell as much as it has. I was just comparing two songs on similar sales.

Ok then, the biggest seller that year was Will Young with his debut, it also spent 16 weeks on the chart and sold 1,783,919 copies. I'm not sure what your point is. The biggest seller is selling much less these days, but it's still taking a long time to sell as much as it has. I was just comparing two songs on similar sales.

 

I'm agreeing with you. My point was that yeah even though sales are spread over a longer period of time, they're still not meeting the sales of some years ago. Mercy and Without Me have similar sales, both were #1s, but Mercy is the biggest song of the year, and probably the classic song of 2008. Even though its sales are spread over 29 weeks, its still not enough compared to the biggest hit of 2002 (i'm sure that even if you dont count the Idol songs, the next big song still sold a lot more). Not sure if i'm making any sense :P

No no no. The charts are the fairest reflection of the songs people buy that they've been for years. Yes, it's annoying that the same songs overstay their welcome but people are still buying them.

 

We all complained when songs were excluded from the charts because they were download-only or because they had a free poster (for shame!). Now we complain because nothing's excluded.

 

Basically, it's up to record companies to supply a wider range interesting product - and for radio stations to play them rather than playing 'Sweet About Me' AGAIN. That way, the charts still reflect what people buy - it's just people are buying a bigger range of stuff and the charts are more interesting again.

 

 

Excellently put.

I'm agreeing with you. My point was that yeah even though sales are spread over a longer period of time, they're still not meeting the sales of some years ago. Mercy and Without Me have similar sales, both were #1s, but Mercy is the biggest song of the year, and probably the classic song of 2008. Even though its sales are spread over 29 weeks, its still not enough compared to the biggest hit of 2002 (i'm sure that even if you dont count the Idol songs, the next big song still sold a lot more). Not sure if i'm making any sense :P

Oops sorry, my misunderstanding. I was being completely stupid and thought that you were saying my point is invalid because it was comparing the biggest selling song of the year so far with the 10th best selling song of 2002 - like I should have been comparing the biggest singles of each year or something. :lol:

 

I wasn't trying to pick at how sales have fallen though, I was just trying to show how long it's taking people to pick up on songs these days. Before downloads 29+ week chart runs were far less common than they are now. Of course there are exceptions like "My Way", "Relax", "I Believe" etc. that spent AGES on the chart.

I like them slow but not this appallingly slow :/

And it always seems to be the most horrific tracks hanging around for eons like Rockstar or Beaver Face or that wretched Cilmi song.

 

I'd like to think it's just down to the lack of good material this year and it will clear up soon and perhaps not be as dead.

I still think the singles chart will speed up once again, when iTunes finally bows to record label demands of being able to remove tracks from sale. This will have the effect of making singles fall off the chart a lot quicker. iTunes won't do it at the moment because most of their profit comes from single track downloads but when digital album sales do finally take off, then iTunes will agree to do this a lot more.

 

I think the phrase I'm looking for is : Killing the goose that lays the golden egg!

 

A move straight from the Gerald Ratner book of product promotion, in fact. :)

 

If I were a music pirate, I would be rubbing my hands at the above prospect, and other, legitimate, download sites would also gain greatly at iTunes expense.

 

 

I like them slow but not this appallingly slow :/

And it always seems to be the most horrific tracks hanging around for eons like Rockstar or Beaver Face or that wretched Cilmi song.

 

I'd like to place on the record that Rockstar & Sweet About Me are my two favourite songs of 2008 so far - and I still never get tired of hearing them. :)

Rap and/or urban ballads however... :puke2:

 

However, I have to accept that I'll have to put up with songs I hate hanging around, as well as ones I love.

 

The question is - what songs have missed out totally, that would have been big hits given a faster turnover? I'm not sure there are *any*, since a really popular song will invariably force it's way through anyway.

 

In fact, initial radio/TV resistance to a song often prolongs its chart run, as its sales won't be concentrated into a relatively short period after release. Rockstar itself is a prime example of this - it was released last October, but it didn't *really* get picked up ontil the new year.

 

I'm afraid it's the rise of the iPod and lack of education to blame. 20 years ago you'd see 1 maybe 2 people in the street or a train with a walkman on - now it's about 50%. Do all these people dig for their music? No, they head straight for the best sellers on iTunes and grab them. Some day a new means of 'what's hot' will rise which is not tied inextricably to sales, but until someone thinks of that we're stuck with an unimaginative and bland audience.

I totally agree

 

I am so fed up of the charts that I have just stopped listening altogether, that and a slow chart combined with the tireless waffle of Fearne and Reggie bumbling around messing it up gets more and more frustrating.

 

As said before, the 2005-2007 era was acceptable, some week smay have had 7 new entries but at least we still had weeks where there were 12 new entries, when there would be the odd surprise new entry nowadays whatever is on the itunes chart is what enters the top 40 and I am so fed up with the fact that downloaders dont have any imaginations at all and I'm annoyed that the record companies arent helping the physical format by not re-shuffling the pricing of cds as i thought they were going to, as it was the physicals that sometimes allowed something random to appear

I bought Katy Perry's single today for 99p. TYhe song itself and a 6 minute remix.

I think that is brilliant considering and seriously think record companies should consider doing this with all releases. It would definately help the single again.

I don't listen to the Top 40 countdown anymore but then I think for me I already know due to the mids where the songs I like will be charting. To be fair the lack of activity in the singles chart is a combination of things but mainly lack of big key exciting new releases and promotion from record companies.

 

Look how busy Buzzjack gets when there is a chart battle or big new releases it seems as though all the record companies are saving new singles/albums for the final quarter which means some big name acts will no doubt fail only to rebound in the new year which should make for an exciting chart

I bought Katy Perry's single today for 99p. TYhe song itself and a 6 minute remix.

I think that is brilliant considering and seriously think record companies should consider doing this with all releases. It would definately help the single again.

 

I agree the 99p single is a good idea but it feels as though it is 5 years too late! Had record companies starting doing this when the physical format first declined it might not have lead to Asda, Tesco, and Woolworths decision to stop stocking the single.

it's very boring but at least most songs climb to their peak now...it's just shame they don't drop away from their peak as quickly as they climbed to it...

 

but then a song with a chart run 21-14-6-4-2-1-5-9-15-27 etc...would probably rack up less than 200,000 sales overall

 

so you either have slow charts or low overall sales...it's a lose/lose situation

But if the charts were fast there would be more songs peaking inside the top 5 and the top 200 singles of the year would be a lot tighter. It'll even itself out over time imo.

 

IMO people's attitudes have changed. People seem to know more of an individual song rather than the artist or band. Also they're never desperate to find new music and despite the internet people are simply not discovering enough new music they just sit there and listen to local radio which plays a loop of SAW songs with a couple of overplayed 21st century classics mixed in. Those only tend to be played until about 4 months after they've been released though at least. -_-