Why on earth would they spend the money that they clearly don't have if they need to resort to begging/crime on coming here? Germany is far closer and far richer.

I don't think it would end that complaint, but I'm saying stories like this don't really do much with regards to immigration sentiments because I think they're fairly solidified by now - who doesn't have a fairly settled view on immigration by this point? It's been an issue for over ten years now.

 

While I think someone coming out strongly in the major parties in favour of immigration would influence views, I think the rhetoric has been so unbendingly negative around immigration since about 2005 that there isn't really much that could happen in the next two years that would increase anti-immigration views by much, short of a Mick Philpotts-style cause celebre.

I'm not sure what mindset it reveals that you consider us to be decades behind on this rather than decades ahead.

 

But I don't understand why you think that. The point Craig raised is valid in this case: compared to how virulent anti-immigration bigotry is in France (and some other European countries), Britain has until now been pretty tolerant. I really worry how much longer that's going to last now the "taboo" is being demolished completely - but one thing's for sure, it can get a LOT worse than it is here right now.

Edited November 27, 201311 yr by Danny

I hope your job doesn't require any sort of attention to detail then.

 

It does, I do a lot of proofreading in my job as errors in letters/emails/documents to clients can cost contracts

 

I 'switch off' outside of work hours because i have to be so focused at work

It was just sloppy use of the English language, no hidden meanings, no sinister overtones, nothing

Hot air really, the plan is so watered down

 

3 months before you can claim benefits? it should be 3 years, no one should get benefits of any sort who were not born here till they have paid 3 years NI contributions

 

 

Agree. We know an old man who came from Philippines to look after his grand-kids years ago, on a 6 month tourist visa. He's still here and getting loads of benefits, more than me I've heard. Don't ask me how when he's never paid a penny in contributions or tax here. They've even put the TV licence in his name as he's over 75 so gets it free. It's disgusting. He has TB too so is in and out of hospital, a burden on our NHS. Now they're not kids he should be sent home! This country is too soft.

Any proposal to prevent EU citizens from receiving the same rights as British citizens is not going to be legal or possible to implement and they surely realise this. I don't get what they're playing at with these initial three month out-of-work benefit restrictions. I can only guess it's to trigger a 'no you can't do this' response from the EU, vilifying them/provoking a shitstorm from the press and giving a false mandate for an EU referendum, which is on their manifesto for the 2015 election. Anger.

I really do hate the legitimisation of this xenophobia. Rhetoric is so strongly against immigration, I feel as though those views are hardly ever challenged anymore. I wish party policy didn't succumb to populism to create a near-consensus - the majority view isn't always correct right?

Agree. We know an old man who came from Philippines to look after his grand-kids years ago, on a 6 month tourist visa. He's still here and getting loads of benefits, more than me I've heard. Don't ask me how when he's never paid a penny in contributions or tax here. They've even put the TV licence in his name as he's over 75 so gets it free. It's disgusting. He has TB too so is in and out of hospital, a burden on our NHS. Now they're not kids he should be sent home! This country is too soft.

 

Considering that you currently benefit greatly from the welfare state and contribute precisely f**k all to society Chris, do you mind not casting aspersions on others right to claim benefits?

 

Thanks. Yours sincerely, The rest of the world.

I really do hate the legitimisation of this xenophobia. Rhetoric is so strongly against immigration, I feel as though those views are hardly ever challenged anymore. I wish party policy didn't succumb to populism to create a near-consensus - the majority view isn't always correct right?

 

THIS! It's so depressing that politicians these days are too feeble to ever challenge anything that goes against public opinion, they don't seem to have any faith in their ability to shape public opinion themselves. Much as I obviously hate Thatcher, you have to admire how she was willing to say "this is what I believe, I know a lot of people don't like it but it's what I think is best".

THIS! It's so depressing that politicians these days are too feeble to ever challenge anything that goes against public opinion, they don't seem to have any faith in their ability to shape public opinion themselves. Much as I obviously hate Thatcher, you have to admire how she was willing to say "this is what I believe, I know a lot of people don't like it but it's what I think is best".

Although ironically her views on ethnic minorities were rather scary so you have to assume she'd be no help here.

Wouldn't be getting this shit under SAINT TONE!

EU SUPERSTATE NOW

And just like clockwork - UKIP score 14% in tonight's YouGov poll, their highest rating for 3 months. You don't "shoot UKIP's fox" by legitimising their bigoted arguments, simple as that.

Edited November 28, 201311 yr by Danny

And just like clockwork - UKIP score 14% in tonight's YouGov poll, their highest rating for 3 months. You don't "shoot UKIP's fox" by legitimising their bigoted arguments, simple as that.

 

What we need to do is get rid of Cameron, make Boris Johnson leader and arrange some sort of deal with UKIP

 

Boris made one of the best speeches i have ever heard in politics the other night, said true things that wet lettuce Cameron never would

I am 110% with you until the first comma!

What we need to do is get rid of Cameron, make Boris Johnson leader and arrange some sort of deal with UKIP

 

Boris made one of the best speeches i have ever heard in politics the other night, said true things that wet lettuce Cameron never would

Either you haven't heard many political speeches or you are just as deranged as one of the few people who would be an even worse PM than Cameron.

 

Perhaps you could also explain how somebody who is Mayor of London and not an MP could become leader any time soon. You may also like to reflect on the fact that, if he resigned as Mayor, was found a safe seat where the MP was prepared to step down, won that byelection (bearing in mind that the circumstances would make it losable) and then won the leadership, any attacks on Ed Miliband for the way he won his party's leadership would lack all credibility.

14% is well within the margin of error for most of UKIP's poll ratings over the last six months. It might be a boost, but I wouldn't extrapolate that from a single poll.

Either you haven't heard many political speeches or you are just as deranged as one of the few people who would be an even worse PM than Cameron.

 

Perhaps you could also explain how somebody who is Mayor of London and not an MP could become leader any time soon. You may also like to reflect on the fact that, if he resigned as Mayor, was found a safe seat where the MP was prepared to step down, won that byelection (bearing in mind that the circumstances would make it losable) and then won the leadership, any attacks on Ed Miliband for the way he won his party's leadership would lack all credibility.

 

He would have to step down as mayor of London, he has very able deputies who could easily take over from him till the next mayor contest, someone in the commons could step aside (blame ill health or something) and Boris stand for election to the house of commons

 

He would then be in a position to challenge Cameron and would almost certainly win any leadership contest hands down, there would be no credibility lost because he will have won a leadership election under fair means not a union block vote

 

Cameron is a liability, Boris is a massive vote winner

 

Either you haven't heard many political speeches or you are just as deranged as one of the few people who would be an even worse PM than Cameron.

 

Boris spoke pretty much what i think, he is a cheerleader for enterprise and people getting off their asses and being a success in life

 

He would have to step down as mayor of London, he has very able deputies who could easily take over from him till the next mayor contest, someone in the commons could step aside (blame ill health or something) and Boris stand for election to the house of commons

 

He would then be in a position to challenge Cameron and would almost certainly win any leadership contest hands down, there would be no credibility lost because he will have won a leadership election under fair means not a union block vote

 

Cameron is a liability, Boris is a massive vote winner

 

You overestimate how much impact the leader has. Just 4 years ago we saw "the most popular politician since Churchill" come a distant third in the election.

 

Besides, I'm not convinced Boris is actually THAT popular outside of London and the south anyway ... plus the bookies have Theresa May as favourite to be the next Conservative leader after Cameron, I think that's probably right since she atleast isn't an out-of-touch posh boy who might actually have some appeal (to the extent the leader will have any real impact) to the kind of people who are so off-limits to the Tories atm.

Edited November 30, 201311 yr by Danny

You overestimate how much impact the leader has. Just 4 years ago we saw "the most popular politician since Churchill" come a distant third in the election.

 

Besides, I'm not convinced Boris is actually THAT popular outside of London and the south anyway ... plus the bookies have Theresa May as favourite to be the next Conservative leader after Cameron, I think that's probably right since she atleast isn't an out-of-touch posh boy who might actually have some appeal (to the extent the leader will have any real impact) to the kind of people who are so off-limits to the Tories atm.

 

He would bring in the youth vote which is something Cameron doesn't do. Boris is loved by teenagers etc and they would probably vote for him in vast numbers

 

Theresa May is a decent person, a competent politician, but as a woman she would be constantly judged against Maggie, If Boris was not the next leader i would like to see William Hague given another go, he took on the job 10 years early, grown up a lot since then plus he is respected across the world