I hope we get some explanation as to how that reveal happened!

suspic: surely you don't need an explanation for the Master standing in a street unmasking herself and her plans to the Doctor?

There has been talk about having a female doctor for as long as I can remember so I don't think that was meant to be a clue.

There has been talk about having a female doctor for as long as I can remember so I don't think that was meant to be a clue.

And I don't think it'll have influenced Moffat's casting decision for the role at all considering he thought Michelle was the only person that could pull it all off.

!!!

 

Wow.

 

Thank God it wasn't the Rani. I haven't seen either of her stories but it would just feel like they were bringing her back for the sake of it. Doing something new like a female Master is a much more interesting development and hopefully it will now put to bed rumours of the Rani coming back. I started to think it was Romana though as it was making sense with the whole 'you left me' (even if it was her choice) but I was confused as to why she would then be evil.

 

I really wouldn't be happy with a female Doctor but I think the reason I'm not disappointed with the Master reveal is how Michelle Gomez plays it. I also think it's a lot easier to pull it off with a villain who occasionally pops up rather than the constant main character. No matter how well they have/will pull it off with the Master, I just don't think it would work with the Doctor.

 

It's really great to have a two-parter again (the first 'proper' one since The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People!!!) as well as it's great to have things take a slower pace, allowing the episode to build and build. I was scared that it was starting to get a little dark and seriousness with the whole afterlife issue but I'm glad it's just the whole consciousness thing.

 

A fabulous episode and I really can't wait for next week!

 

(still not over that reveal)

Excellent episode all round but the reveal feels like a let down. FAR too predictable.

 

For me too :(

 

As soon as she said, the time lord you left to die, I started thinking River Song or the original first assistant who was also a time lord.

 

It was a big let down.

 

We'd been saying about Missy and the connection between Mistress etc for weeks now.

I really think this is part of the reason Moffat's deliberately NOT being doing two-part episodes or allowing anyone to do them. I think once you have too many two-parters, you start to get a bit bored of the constant cliffhangers, but when you leave it for a couple of years and then give us something like THAT (which is probably the best cliffhanger in a LONG time), it really makes it worthwhile.

It may be a more predictable reveal, but it's one that pays off which is FAR more important to me.

 

Like there were some theories that she would be characters who were in a couple of episodes like 5 years ago. Is that predictable? No. Would I be excited/care about it? No.

Like there were some theories that she would be characters who were in a couple of episodes like 5 years ago. Is that predictable? No. Would I be excited/care about it? No.

Definitely agree! I must admit, I was expecting it to be a new character because it seemed like having a female version of any character that had until this point been dominated by a male role was out of the question, but I'm glad Moffat's done something totally different and it's really paid off!

Part of me is disappointed it wasn't the Rani. She's basically the female Master and now there isn't really a reason to bring her back as she'd be redundant. I love it when old villains are brought back and maybe it's because I recently watched the last story she was involved in.

 

Having said that it was gripping and it's nice to see the Master back in some form and Michelle Gomez is excellent. I do want them to explore what happened in the next episode and what has turned the Master against the Doctor once more.

Ratings ('Dark Water' overnights added):

 

Deep Breath · Overnight: 6.8m, Final: 9.17m, L+7: 10.76m, AI: 82

Into the Dalek · Overnight: 5.2m, Final: 7.29m, L+7: 8.26m, AI: 84

Robot of Sherwood · Overnight: 5.2m, Final: 7.28m, L+7: 8.25m, AI: 82

Listen · Overnight: 4.8m, Final: 7.01m, L+7: 7.80m, AI: 82

Time Heist · Overnight: 4.93m, Final: 6.99m, AI: 84

The Caretaker · Overnight: 4.89m, Final: 6.82m, AI: 83

Kill the Moon · Overnight: 4.81m, Final: 6.91m, AI: 82

Mummy on the Orient Express · Overnight: 5.08m, Final: 7.11m, AI: 85

Flatline · Overnight: 4.6m, Final: 6.71m, AI: 85

In the Forest of the Night · Overnight: 5.03m, Final: TBA, AI: 83

Dark Water · Overnight: 5.27m, Final: TBA, AI: TBA

suspic: surely you don't need an explanation for the Master standing in a street unmasking herself and her plans to the Doctor?

 

What I meant was an explanation as to how the Master/Missy regenerated when it appeared to conclude the Masters story in David Tennants last episode!

 

Hopefully it won't be one of those 'it was all a dream' endings or bending the rules of time again...

What I meant was an explanation as to how the Master/Missy regenerated when it appeared to conclude the Masters story in David Tennants last episode!

 

Hopefully it won't be one of those 'it was all a dream' endings or bending the rules of time again...

Hopefully it is an 'it was all a dream' explanation because 'The End of Time' was a woeful story. :heehee: But yeah, I'm more interested in seeing what Moffat's going to throw at us re. how the Master actually escaped Gallifrey given it's time-locked now? I'm guessing that there's possibly a way out of Gallifrey, but no way in.

Hopefully it is an 'it was all a dream' explanation because 'The End of Time' was a woeful story. :heehee: But yeah, I'm more interested in seeing what Moffat's going to throw at us re. how the Master actually escaped Gallifrey given it's time-locked now? I'm guessing that there's possibly a way out of Gallifrey, but no way in.

 

Agreed about The End Of Time though obviously there will be a way, after all Rose escaped from the parallel universe that was meant to be locked forever and the Cybermen and Daleks keep appearing despite being destroyed or trapped in the Void!

 

Hopefully next weeks will give us a satisfying conclusion and not some mess of an ending as Dark Water was just brilliant!!

The episode seemed to fall into four sections for me.

 

The first, featuring Danny's apparent demise, was beautifully shot and executed. Clara's reactions during the phonecall were excellent and the audio that we heard from the funeral added to a nice time lapse montage.

 

The second, with Clara going batshit by the side of a volcano was ridiculously out-of-character and very unbelievable I thought. I don't think Danny is particularly the sort of character that has had enough impact to warrant the Doctor to change the rules of time for him to live, nor do I think she would ask that much of him (regardless of whether the volcano was fiction or not).

 

The third was pretty much the rest of the episode (until the reveals) and whilst I thought the setting was fairly clever and the actors gave great performances, I thought some elements were far too macabre for this programme (especially the "don't cremate me" line). This series more than ever has been a bit off in judgements from Steven Moffat. That, the Doctor's rejection of Danny's soldier past (which fair enough is in his character but the Army has been an institution of this country forever basically) which has had far too much focus, especially when the child that Danny killed appeared during the finale.

 

The final section was good, I didn't particularly expect Missy to be the Master but it was a good twist including a character from the not too distant past (it has been five years after all since his last appearance) in the finale. I'm not too keen on the 'Cybermen invading London' situation that is about to play out though, especially as it's basically Doomsday mixed with The Last of the Time Lords now.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next though, but the horror factor has to be a bit less 'real' I think.

What I meant was an explanation as to how the Master/Missy regenerated when it appeared to conclude the Masters story in David Tennants last episode!

 

Hopefully it won't be one of those 'it was all a dream' endings or bending the rules of time again...

To be fair, in the Classic series, the Master appeared to die in basically every story he was in, and then turn up later on with zero explanation so if they don't explain what happened to him, at least it's a throwback to the old series :lol:

Wow - such a great way to end the series. That ending though! :lol:

In many ways, that was the perfect way to conclude what has been a perfect series (if we forget 'In the Forest of the Night' exists), but I think this is the first time I'm properly confused by Doctor Who... I don't know how I'm confused, but something just isn't sitting right.

 

The ending was absolutely beautiful though - the Doctor and Clara both lying to one another for the sake of keeping one another happy. I think they've had possibly one of the strongest (if not the strongest) Doctor / companion dynamics in the show's history.

So has Clara now left, or is she returning for the Christmas episode?

 

Missed it - will watch it tomorrow. As I don't mind spoilers, could someone please tell me what happened (in spoiler tags ofc).

Missed it - will watch it tomorrow. As I don't mind spoilers, could someone please tell me what happened (in spoiler tags ofc).

 

The Cybermen rose from all of the graveyards in the world, the Mistress killed Osgood and Seb, Danny became a Cyberman and defeated all of the armies that were rising by commanding them, as their officer, to detonate themselves in the sky to banish the clouds, Clara left the Doctor and they both lied to one another - Clara telling the Doctor that she and Danny were happily together and the Doctor telling Clara that he had found Gallifrey, the Mistress was shot at by the Brigadier in Cyberman form but we're not sure if she survived or not, and the Mistress was confirmed to be the woman in the shop.