Most worrying about this year are not those who've been ragingly Eurosceptic for years (for whatever reason) shrieking louder, it's how their views have become less and less contested even though (because???) they're far less of an insignificant minority who're easy to ignore than before. It's really disheartening.

To completely change the topic, do people even realise anymore when information is badly put across? The extra £1.7 billion has of course been portrayed as a sudden demand decided on a whim by populist media, and even from media I trust I had to dig pretty deep before finding out that the precise rules (the GNI growing more than forecast and also adding in parts of the shadow economy to calculations) have been in place for a long time now. It seems everyone's starting to give up even contesting bullshit.

 

And rather than throwing a hissy fit only once the rules don't work out in the UK's favour, they should've been contested when they were agreed upon.

 

Honestly I was beginning to think it was a genuine case of the EU kicking themselves in the foot and reading the internet it seems that even non-Eurosceptics are thinking this. Without wanting to sound like a broken record, it's yet again the media dictating the mood. This is how a formerly niche and ill-founded opinion such as Euroscepticism becomes a mainstream point of view.

Very true. The complaints are rather like somebody complaining that their income tax is calculated on their earnings over the whole year rather than their salary at the start of the year.

Scottish Labour leader has quit

I saw this leading the 6 'o clock last night and Cameron thumping his hand on the lectern. Classic! :D

 

Serves him right for Boy George including prostitution and drugs into the GDP and giving a false impression that our economy was healthy (when it really isn't). Hopefully this is the end for Cameron now! He is going to have to pay and will look like a complete muppet.

The revision of GDP to include prostitution etc. is a EU measure, not a unilateral decision by Osborne.

 

Apparently Osborne knew about this demand for more money on Tuesday but Cameron didn't find out until Thursday.

The revision of GDP to include prostitution etc. is a EU measure, not a unilateral decision by Osborne.

 

Apparently Osborne knew about this demand for more money on Tuesday but Cameron didn't find out until Thursday.

 

That explains the Netherlands having the same problem then....

 

Osbourne: oops! He's going to get a back-room slap.

 

as for the previous Muppet post, let's have a vote on which muppet each leader most resembles.

 

Dave: Scooter (his dad owns the theatre)

Ed: Beaker. He just does...

Nick: Link Porkthrob

Nige: Animal

Nige: Animal

 

More like Sam the Eagle -

 

That explains the Netherlands having the same problem then....

 

Osbourne: oops! He's going to get a back-room slap.

 

as for the previous Muppet post, let's have a vote on which muppet each leader most resembles.

 

Dave: Scooter (his dad owns the theatre)

Ed: Beaker. He just does...

Nick: Link Porkthrob

Nige: Animal

I resent any link between Farage and the best Muppet.

I resent any link between Farage and the best Muppet.

 

I will not tolerate such blasphemy. The best Muppet is, of course, the Swedish chef. Bork bork bork -

 

Genius Farge and Sam The Eagle photo, I take back the Animal suggestion, and The Swedish Chef is of course the best Muppet. Yoo poot de cheeken ean da baskit... :D

Scottish Labour leader has quit

 

The fact Labour people seem to think Jim Murphy of all people is the answer to the question shows how little they understand.

The fact Labour people seem to think Jim Murphy of all people is the answer to the question shows how little they understand.

At least he's known. The main problem with Scottish Labour is that it's just so devoid of any notable personalities. It says more about the Scottish wing of the party than it does about Labour in general.

At least he's known. The main problem with Scottish Labour is that it's just so devoid of any notable personalities. It says more about the Scottish wing of the party than it does about Labour in general.

 

He is? Do even people in Scotland know anything about him apart from perhaps that he got egged once? (*paging Silas*)

 

I come back to the point that, sooner rather than later, Labour are going to have to ask themselves whether they're just so extraordinarily unlucky to be constantly electing fundamentally bad leaders (both for the Scottish party and the whole UK party), or if the policies that they keep adopting are enough to ruin even leaders who would be perfectly fine and competent in other circumstances. It's not like Nicola Sturgeon is going to be winning any personality contests anytime soon either, but because she actually has clear ideas and clear arguments, she's able to speak in a clear way that people without politics degrees can understand.

Edited October 25, 201410 yr by Danny

He is? Do even people in Scotland know anything about him apart from perhaps that he got egged once? (*paging Silas*)

 

I come back to the point that, sooner rather than later, Labour are going to have to ask themselves whether they're just so extraordinarily unlucky to be constantly electing fundamentally bad leaders (both for the Scottish party and the whole UK party), or if the policies that they keep adopting are enough to ruin even leaders who would be perfectly fine and competent in other circumstances. It's not like Nicola Sturgeon is going to be winning any personality contests anytime soon either, but because she actually has clear ideas and clear arguments, she's able to speak in a clear way that people without politics degrees can understand.

Constantly electing? The Scottish party is a different matter but nationally the party has had two leaders since it last won an election and one was probably the least PR-friendly leader possible. There's a lot to be said for the party's policies not being satisfactory but you can hardly claim it's irrefutable based on the number of leaders we've gone through.

Constantly electing? The Scottish party is a different matter but nationally the party has had two leaders since it last won an election and one was probably the least PR-friendly leader possible. There's a lot to be said for the party's policies not being satisfactory but you can hardly claim it's irrefutable based on the number of leaders we've gone through.

Indeed. There can be little doubt that Labour would have won in 1997 almost regardless of who their leader was. If John Smith had lived he would still have won although he may not have won quite as big a majority as Blair did. That could potentially have meant that the leader's personality would not have been so significant in subsequent elections. After all, Smith came across as a not particularly exciting accountant. A very competent accountant but a fairly uncharismatic one.

The fact Labour people seem to think Jim Murphy of all people is the answer to the question shows how little they understand.

He's the one the SNP fear the most. If he were that simple to dismiss, why would they fear him and not Mark Findlay? Portraying the SNP as this amorphous 'WAY MORE LEFT WING THAN YOU' blob avoids the fact that they shirk definition outside of Scottish independence (their main policy in 2011 was freezing council tax. Hardly Ché Guevara.) and are more of a populist party, if anything. The idea that they'd be totally becalmed and unable to respond to a left-wing candidate being elected as leader is utterly false. Not least because it's what happened in 2011.

He's the one the SNP fear the most. If he were that simple to dismiss, why would they fear him and not Mark Findlay? Portraying the SNP as this amorphous 'WAY MORE LEFT WING THAN YOU' blob avoids the fact that they shirk definition outside of Scottish independence (their main policy in 2011 was freezing council tax. Hardly Ché Guevara.) and are more of a populist party, if anything.

 

Based on what? The only people I've ever seen praising him are Tory media commentators.

 

Not only are his "policies" the exact type of thing that has pushed Scottish Labour voters away (and Labour voters across all their heartlands everywhere in the UK, come to that), but he's always seemed incredibly dull and uncharismatic to me, he has one of the most soporific voices I've ever heard. He'd probably be even worse than Johann Lamont, who atleast seemed slightly normal and down-to-earth compared to most politicians (she actually had fairly respectable personal ratings when she was first elected, although they were then ruined by her policies or lack thereof).

 

The idea that they'd be totally becalmed and unable to respond to a left-wing candidate being elected as leader is utterly false. Not least because it's what happened in 2011.

 

Eh?

Edited October 27, 201410 yr by Danny

Based on what? The only people I've ever seen praising him are Tory media commentators.

 

Not only are his "policies" the exact type of thing that has pushed Scottish Labour voters away (and Labour voters across all their heartlands everywhere in the UK, come to that), but he's always seemed incredibly dull and uncharismatic to me, he has one of the most soporific voices I've ever heard. He'd probably be even worse than Johann Lamont, who atleast seemed slightly normal and down-to-earth compared to most politicians (she actually had fairly respectable personal ratings when she was first elected, although they were then ruined by her policies or lack thereof).

Eh?

Dull and uncharismatic? You don't do a 100-day soapbox tour of the high streets of a country if you're dull, uncharismatic and soporific. No less one that got a good reception for refusing to dodge difficult questions and answering any that came his way. Yeah, he's more than capable of being dull in an evening meeting, but you just wouldn't be capable of doing tours like that in the face of constant Nationalist abuse if you didn't have a bit of fire to you.

 

I'll need to find which piece it was, but there was a piece just after the referendum and another after Johann resigned saying that the SNP privately feared Jim Murphy more than any other candidate.

 

And as for the 'Eh?', Johann was the left-wing candidate for the leadership in 2011.

Dull and uncharismatic? You don't do a 100-day soapbox tour of the high streets of a country if you're dull, uncharismatic and soporific. No less one that got a good reception for refusing to dodge difficult questions and answering any that came his way. Yeah, he's more than capable of being dull in an evening meeting, but you just wouldn't be capable of doing tours like that in the face of constant Nationalist abuse if you didn't have a bit of fire to you.

 

I'll need to find which piece it was, but there was a piece just after the referendum and another after Johann resigned saying that the SNP privately feared Jim Murphy more than any other candidate.

 

And as for the 'Eh?', Johann was the left-wing candidate for the leadership in 2011.

 

?!?!?!? The most notable part of her leadership was when she attacked the SNP for being too generous with public services, and then took part in an independence campaign which lifted tricks straight out of the classic right-wing playbook. Just because someone is endorsed by the unions that doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean they have left-wing policies, with Ed Miliband being exhibit A.

 

I thought even you accepted that working-class Scottish Labour voters think the party is too much like the Tories, even though you seem to think it's just confined to Scotland rather than across the UK.

Edited October 27, 201410 yr by Danny

This would have sounded incredibly counter-intuitive a few years ago but if the party wants an electoral boost then Gordon Brown would easily prevent the SNP from getting 40% next year.