This is such a sensitive issue. Firstly the images were shocking, and it's a really, really sad story, of course there are countless others. However my thoughts from the past few days is that people seem more intent on being outraged and ashamed than thinking about the problem logically. Absolutely we should allow more refugees in to the country, as should the rest of Europe - this is a global problem. However the danger of willingly accepting more refugees, is people will be more likely to use people smugglers to risk their lives. The short term fix leads to bigger problems, and it's why I the situation is much more complicated than people would have you believe. There's no easy fix, but with the stories in the media the past few days it's certainly led to a more emotive & humane picture to the public.

 

What's awful is the Arab nations (UAE, Saudi, Jordan etc.) turning a blind eye to the crisis as well. These guys would rather drive around in their Bentleys than help people from teir culture.

Jordan are not turning a blind eye to it. They have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees over the last few years. However, the response from Saudi Arabia and UAE has been abysmal. Quite why we treat them as countries with a civilised regime would be impossible to fathom if it wasn't for their oil.

Jordan are not turning a blind eye to it. They have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees over the last few years. However, the response from Saudi Arabia and UAE has been abysmal. Quite why we treat them as countries with a civilised regime would be impossible to fathom if it wasn't for their oil.

 

Well that's fair enough, I wasn't sure what the response over there only that it's poor. These countries are stupidly rich, and while their human rights laws are nowhere near as established as Europe and the West, they still ought to be doing more. Rich from oil, but all the wealth is kept in-house to the rich and the powerful.

The response from the Gulf nations has been pretty appalling indeed, especially when Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt right next to them are heaving with all the refugees who haven't come to Europe. But I wouldn't have expected anything less from the oil-barons.

Jordan are not turning a blind eye to it. They have taken in hundreds of thousands of refugees over the last few years. However, the response from Saudi Arabia and UAE has been abysmal. Quite why we treat them as countries with a civilised regime would be impossible to fathom if it wasn't for their oil.

 

Quite. The hypocrisy of the West holding up it's hands saying "what can we do gov" is sickening. Boycott all goods, don't go on holiday there, refuse to televise sporting events based there, it'll work. They will give in pretty quickly, oil or no oil if they get hit in the moneysacks. Economic sanctions are by far the most effective method of persuasion cos unhappy masses have a tendency to make those in control a bit nervous...

As much as I hate the situation over this, I really don't want them over here, where are they going to live, they could be sharing your house pretty soon

As much as I hate the situation over this, I really don't want them over here, where are they going to live, they could be sharing your house pretty soon

 

Perhaps because some people have willingly opened their door to the migrants?

 

I would love to see more people following the example of German MP Martin Patzelt, who took in two Eritrean refugees into his house whilst they found their footing in their new home. Not only has he given the two of them practical help, but it also sends out a strong message of compassion to those people who have negative feelings towards new arrivals.

 

I very much doubt any of our MPs would follow his example though, even those the most vocal about welcoming Syrian refugees. Can't hurt to send them an email asking them if they'd consider it though.

 

Have a look on Private Eye's website and see just how many properties in everybody's area are owned by rich tax-dodging foreign companies. A few thousand refugees who will quickly find work and pay taxes (immigrants traditionally work hard long hours because they have to - they have nothing/are grateful to be in a situation where they can work) won't be that much of an issue. If we taxed foreign companies holding UK property to the extreme they'd soon sell-up and open up more property for British people to buy. A few thousand refugee families spread out over the UK will be, what, one or two in every town, a few dozens in a city, maybe a few hundred in the huge cities?

As much as I hate the situation over this, I really don't want them over here, where are they going to live, they could be sharing your house pretty soon

Yeah, I found three under my bed just this morning.

True to form, the government's lies and distortions in this issue are breathtaking. Let's leave aside the way they did a sudden u-turn when their policy of taking no further refugees at all was made to look even more crass and insensitive by Wednesday's pictures. They are continuing to maintain that their new policy is generous. Somehow we are supposed to consider a decision to allow 20,000 refugees in the next five years to be comparable to Germany's policy of allowing up to 800,000 this year alone.

 

Now ministers are denying that the current policy is a lot harsher than the policy adopted by the British government in the 1930s. In the 1930s, we allowed around 10,000 unaccompanied children to settle here from the Kindertransport programme. We also granted asylum to many thousands of adults (and, in some cases, their children) fleeing from Nazi-occupied Europe. Many of those people and/or their offspring have contributed a great deal to this country. Without that policy, there would be no Stephen Fry or Jonathan Miller. Many of today's politicians (including the Milibands) wouldn't exist. We would never have been entertained by Clement Freud.

 

Of course, the hypocrisy of the government is matched (perhaps, even, exceeded) by that of the press. Papers which have been publishing anti-asylum stories for years are suddenly trying to give the impression that they care deeply about refugees from Syria. Fifteen years ago this month one of those papers (no prizes for guessing which) had to interrupt a long sequence of anti-asylum front pages because they had to accept that there was a more important story. That just illustrates how long this anti-asylum campaign has been going on.

Oh immigrants are very big problem

Well, this has all kicked off again — thanks Nigel Farage.

 

@1291713938355347456

@1292240935145877506

I'm sure the French are going to be more helpful after a no-deal Brexit — especially if we send the navy and our new 'Clandestine Channel Threat Commander' into international waters. It's almost as if we have current frameworks in place with France that we're tearing up. This entire discussion drives me insane — last year we had 44,000 asylum seekers (0.6% of the population) who were entitled to £37.75 a week to live on. That annual total comes to far less than what the government just spent on unusable crony PPE. Where is the outrage there? Why does everyone pretend like the UK is the hardest hit and other European countries are just funnelling people here?

 

 

The UK is 'struggling' with foreigners now — what happens if the Global South becomes uninhabitable and all those people need to find somewhere to live?

Edited August 10, 20204 yr by blacksquare

@1292706269774651392

 

Completely normal morning television.

 

 

Immigration debate and dehumanising migrants always shows up as a constant when a government wants a long-term distraction from their actions.

 

@1292836900559106049

 

Not been best pleased to see this showing up again, it can't mean good times ahead for political discourse. We're going to have no-deal Brexit in among a fresh batch of myths about how 'dangerous' brown people are flooding into the country.

 

And that chart you've posted blacksquare, isn't it the case that yet ALL of those stats about migrant refugees coming into Europe are dwarfed, at least in the case of those fleeing the Middle East, by those accepted by Middle Eastern countries themselves, Turkey, Saudi Arabia... Lebanon? We need to start having healthy and humane attitudes to migrants, or we will become monsters soon enough.

Vile vile vile.

Immigration debate and dehumanising migrants always shows up as a constant when a government wants a long-term distraction from their actions.

 

@1292836900559106049

 

Not been best pleased to see this showing up again, it can't mean good times ahead for political discourse. We're going to have no-deal Brexit in among a fresh batch of myths about how 'dangerous' brown people are flooding into the country.

 

And that chart you've posted blacksquare, isn't it the case that yet ALL of those stats about migrant refugees coming into Europe are dwarfed, at least in the case of those fleeing the Middle East, by those accepted by Middle Eastern countries themselves, Turkey, Saudi Arabia... Lebanon? We need to start having healthy and humane attitudes to migrants, or we will become monsters soon enough.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of British people considered those 'brown' countries one and the same, and thus their migrant numbers are meaningless. I really do fear for the future if this is the attitude now.

 

@1292835799759716352

@blacksquare I think you missed a zero in that 0.06% of the population figure which makes for an even stronger point.

 

In an ideal world it would be beyond humbling for an average person to realise that these people have it so bad they literally risk their lives in order to save themselves. And they choose this very country. Yet we have white privileged on-benefits Johns and Marys (who probably haven't gone through even 10% of what immigrants/refugees have to deal with on a daily basis in their entire lives) claiming how immigrants steal jobs and are dangerous etc. etc. etc. you know the rest.

And that chart you've posted blacksquare, isn't it the case that yet ALL of those stats about migrant refugees coming into Europe are dwarfed, at least in the case of those fleeing the Middle East, by those accepted by Middle Eastern countries themselves, Turkey, Saudi Arabia... Lebanon? We need to start having healthy and humane attitudes to migrants, or we will become monsters soon enough.

 

@1292852609250930691

 

As you said, 85% of refugees are hosted in countries neighbouring their home country.

 

@blacksquare I think you missed a zero in that 0.06% of the population figure which makes for an even stronger point.

 

In an ideal world it would be beyond humbling for an average person to realise that these people have it so bad they literally risk their lives in order to save themselves. And they choose this very country. Yet we have white privileged on-benefits Johns and Marys (who probably haven't gone through even 10% of what immigrants/refugees have to deal with on a daily basis in their entire lives) claiming how immigrants steal jobs and are dangerous etc. etc. etc. you know the rest.

 

I did! The amount of press for 0.06% is infuriating.

 

Do people really think our welfare system is better than Germany? France? Italy? All countries with higher asylum applications, and yet Brits believe that people are risking their lives purely for £5 a week. There is no consideration for maybe them already speaking the language, or having connections to help them here, or family etc.

Edited August 10, 20204 yr by blacksquare

This story has been picking up rhythm for weeks now, peddled mainly by Nigel Farage. Seemingly with a lot of lobbying it's made the news again, for a good few weeks nobody even seemed to care in the mainstream. Must have started to be a slow news day.

 

I still stand by the thoughts from 4 years ago that the Gulf nations ought be to be doing more to support the crisis the Middle East in particular has been going through for a decade now.