Yes, because

a) it shows people have changed their mind when faced with facts not fantasy in a democratic vote

b) It means the status quo remains until such time as there is a specific choice that people clearly want

c) Brexiteers can continue to campaign and ask for another referendum fresh in the knowledge that they can't make fake promises and use illegal campaign funds and expect people to fall for it. They would have to make the case based on reality, which is what should have happened in the first place.

People can change their minds of course but you could equally say that the other way too so what do you want to do have a vote every 5 years just incase?? Also that would mean all those who have just turned 18 of that period have their chance to vote which is another arguement of the PV campaign - you just can't keep having a vote until you get the answer you want to hear that's not they way things work. The PV campaign want to overturn Brexit that's it.

 

And the argument about people changing their minds due to various promises during the last campaign that could happen both ways as well so I don't buy that. Remainer (of which I was one in 2016) just will say anything to get what they want and that's why my opinion of Brexit has reversed in the past 3 years. Democracy trumps all for me!

People can change their minds of course but you could equally say that the other way too so what do you want to do have a vote every 5 years just incase?? Also that would mean all those who have just turned 18 of that period have their chance to vote which is another arguement of the PV campaign - you just can't keep having a vote until you get the answer you want to hear that's not they way things work. The PV campaign want to overturn Brexit that's it.

 

And the argument about people changing their minds due to various promises during the last campaign that could happen both ways as well so I don't buy that. Remainer (of which I was one in 2016) just will say anything to get what they want and that's why my opinion of Brexit has reversed in the past 3 years. Democracy trumps all for me!

 

My issue is while I agree entirely and I am willing to respect the referendum result, the version of Brexit negotiated by may is absolutely rubbish. And having a No Deal Brexit only benefits very few people, certainly not the economy or the national interest. I feel a referendum with Stay in the EU or May's Deal would work.

 

At least on the Remain side the fight is mostly aligned to a clear and common goal. There are so many different factions of Leave that without someone spearheading the campaign they are a little lost.

That's true but it was also true when the first referendum occurred so it was also going to be the arguement.

That's true but it was also true when the first referendum occurred so it was also going to be the arguement.

 

I think during the 2nd Referendum the message I got was that we wanted to basically have all access to the EU trade, control our own laws and immigration whilst maing the NHS healthy again. There are no obvious benefits to leaving with no deal. I have no idea why people who are so patriotic want us to basically cut all ties with our neighbours, honestly it's scandalous and no other country in the world would do this.

 

I am OK with leaving the EU as long as there is no knock on effect to the economy and our country. But nobody yet has convinced me otherwise that leaving without a deal is a good idea. The fact there are over 200 large businesses with gagging orders enforced on them via the Government basically tells you that jobs are going to go and prices up.

People can change their minds of course but you could equally say that the other way too so what do you want to do have a vote every 5 years just incase?? Also that would mean all those who have just turned 18 of that period have their chance to vote which is another arguement of the PV campaign - you just can't keep having a vote until you get the answer you want to hear that's not they way things work. The PV campaign want to overturn Brexit that's it.

 

And the argument about people changing their minds due to various promises during the last campaign that could happen both ways as well so I don't buy that. Remainer (of which I was one in 2016) just will say anything to get what they want and that's why my opinion of Brexit has reversed in the past 3 years. Democracy trumps all for me!

What about all the law-breaches by the Leave campaign? That’s not my idea of democracy.

 

If the liars and cheats get away with this, they will simply lie and cheat again and again.

I'm starting to believe my wife when she says we'll never leave the EU. :angry: :( We've been told that we were leaving on Friday and that's been postponed. If we don't leave I'll never vote in a referendum again, if there's one in my lifetime.

Edited March 24, 20196 yr by Common Sense

I'm starting to believe my wife when she says we'll never leave the EU. :angry: :( We've been told that we were leaving on Friday and that's been postponed. If we don't leave I'll never vote in a referendum again, if there's one in my lifetime.

 

On the bright side at least you'll be able to buy toilet roll at competitive prices for another 2 weeks.

People can change their minds of course but you could equally say that the other way too so what do you want to do have a vote every 5 years just incase?? Also that would mean all those who have just turned 18 of that period have their chance to vote which is another arguement of the PV campaign - you just can't keep having a vote until you get the answer you want to hear that's not they way things work. The PV campaign want to overturn Brexit that's it.

 

And the argument about people changing their minds due to various promises during the last campaign that could happen both ways as well so I don't buy that. Remainer (of which I was one in 2016) just will say anything to get what they want and that's why my opinion of Brexit has reversed in the past 3 years. Democracy trumps all for me!

 

But given the Leave campaign lies in massive ways, we are now so much more informed of what’s brexit will mean for the country, do you really think we can have no further say on our futures? A narrowly won advisory vote from three years ago like incredible false promises like more money for the NHS is to be respected more than what any of us think now?

 

If a people’s vote still ended in Leave, then so be it. But at least people would have voted with the facts.

If there is to be a second referendum, the mechanics of it would need to be considered a hell of a lot more than putting Leave/Remain in front of the public. The difficulty would be determing what that would be.

 

It could be May’s Deal or Remain, a two stage test of i) Leave/Remain, ii) if we leave May’s Deal/Free Trade Deal

Whilst I acknowledge that a second referendum could potentially be quite damaging to trust in democracy, I am starting to be won round to the idea that it may be the only way to get us through this mess...

 

We'll see what happens this week but I am starting to think that there may not be a majority for any option to move forward with, let alone any form of 'Brexit' including EFTA/EEA (the Norway + or Common Market 2.0 option). It's quite sad that we could have had this realisation over 2 years ago before triggering Article 50 if Theresa May and her team hadn't been so stubborn and bloody minded. I really do worry about what will happen if a second referendum is called but if it becomes the least worst option then I fear it is something we will have to face (though not something I'd campaign for personally).

I have no doubt that a second referendum would have a remain winning result. Not hugely but something like 55-45.

Edited March 24, 20196 yr by Common Sense

But given the Leave campaign lies in massive ways, we are now so much more informed of what’s brexit will mean for the country, do you really think we can have no further say on our futures? A narrowly won advisory vote from three years ago like incredible false promises like more money for the NHS is to be respected more than what any of us think now?

 

If a people’s vote still ended in Leave, then so be it. But at least people would have voted with the facts.

 

I don't think we can never have a say in the future but given the last vote was only in 2016 and Britain hasn't actually left yet I don't think now is the time to have another one.

 

There were lies from groups on both sides of the debate like there always are during political debates as people have competing ideologies of how they see things and the way forward. Look at the Scottish referendum (which was similarly won narrowly by one side) there were many many lies in the stay in the union campaign with so much of the establishment lining up to put forward statements about how the world would fall in if Scotland left the union and I firmly believe they wouldn't have happened. No one talks about that now though because the establishment got its way.

 

I'm also not sure the argument about 'advisory vote' stands up either given it's never used after other referendums such as the Scottish one but because remain lost its bandied about ALOT. At the start of the campaign in 2016 the government sent out leaflets stating that whoever won the result would stand.

 

I think during the 2nd Referendum the message I got was that we wanted to basically have all access to the EU trade, control our own laws and immigration whilst maing the NHS healthy again. There are no obvious benefits to leaving with no deal. I have no idea why people who are so patriotic want us to basically cut all ties with our neighbours, honestly it's scandalous and no other country in the world would do this.

 

I am OK with leaving the EU as long as there is no knock on effect to the economy and our country. But nobody yet has convinced me otherwise that leaving without a deal is a good idea. The fact there are over 200 large businesses with gagging orders enforced on them via the Government basically tells you that jobs are going to go and prices up.

 

I don't support no deal but when literally every MP has a different view of how to leave this was always going to happen. Given that the GE in 2017 showed more people voted for MPs who promised to follow the referendums mandate and leave we have to leave but need to agree with what way to do that. Hence I wouldn't support a PV where the choice to remain would be available. It would skew the choices on any ballot and the people have already voted to leave.

I don't think we can never have a say in the future but given the last vote was only in 2016 and Britain hasn't actually left yet I don't think now is the time to have another one.

 

There were lies from groups on both sides of the debate like there always are during political debates as people have competing ideologies of how they see things and the way forward. Look at the Scottish referendum (which was similarly won narrowly by one side) there were many many lies in the stay in the union campaign with so much of the establishment lining up to put forward statements about how the world would fall in if Scotland left the union and I firmly believe they wouldn't have happened. No one talks about that now though because the establishment got its way.

 

I'm also not sure the argument about 'advisory vote' stands up either given it's never used after other referendums such as the Scottish one but because remain lost its bandied about ALOT. At the start of the campaign in 2016 the government sent out leaflets stating that whoever won the result would stand.

Can you give a single example of a lie told by the Remain campaign? Bear in mind that, by definition, a prediction cannot be a lie unless it is demonstrably ridiculous. For example, if I said “Eight feet of snow will fall in Brighton tonight”, that can safely be called a lie. If I predict tomorrow’s maximum temperature and get it wrong by a couple degrees, that is not a lie.

The 'Emergency Budget'. :P

The 'Emergency Budget'. :P

That didn’t happen because the Bank of England spent billions of pounds on mitigating the effects of the result. It achieved the same as an emergency budget would have aimed to do, but without the faff of parliamentary debate.

That didn’t happen because the Bank of England spent billions of pounds on mitigating the effects of the result. It achieved the same as an emergency budget would have aimed to do, but without the faff of parliamentary debate.

 

Still a lie though isn't it? He said there would have to be one, going as far as suggesting that there would be increases in income & inheritance tax and a cut in spending on the NHS, pensions etc. and there wasn't. It matters not what did happen from the 'independent' Bank of England to achieve the same effect, it was still used as a threat and a scare tactic. Not quite as bad as the leave side but not great.

The Scottish Independence referendum was a binding referendum....

Still a lie though isn't it? He said there would have to be one, going as far as suggesting that there would be increases in income & inheritance tax and a cut in spending on the NHS, pensions etc. and there wasn't. It matters not what did happen from the 'independent' Bank of England to achieve the same effect, it was still used as a threat and a scare tactic. Not quite as bad as the leave side but not great.

Chancellors sometimes have to avoid the full truth for fear of causing exactly what they want to prevent. If Osborne had (accurately) predicted how much the BofE would need to spend, it could have caused panic in the markets. It definitely would have been dismissed as Project Fesr by the Leave campaign.