Not really, he's right if a little forceful and reckless with his language. Right-wing newspapers ARE relentless propaganda machines with consistent factual reporting errors that ensnare people with no critical thinking skills into believing their view of the world and the only people who will benefit from a no-deal Brexit ARE elites with stakes outside the country.

Not really, he's right if a little forceful and reckless with his language. Right-wing newspapers ARE relentless propaganda machines with consistent factual reporting errors that ensnare people with no critical thinking skills into believing their view of the world and the only people who will benefit from a no-deal Brexit ARE elites with stakes outside the country.

 

I don't thinks it's fair to try & blame *only* right-wing newspapers for being 'propaganda machines' - IMO the Guardian is just as guilty from the opposite side.

I figured you'd mention that so I pre-emptively went and did a fact-check on this site, a site that seems unbiased and demonstrates its methodology.

 

On accuracy of reporting:

Right-wing: Express (mixed), Telegraph (mixed), Mail (questionable), Times (high), Sun (mixed, pretty generous but okay)

 

Times is fair.

 

For left-wing: Guardian (high), Independent (high, surprisingly), Mirror (mixed)

 

No questionable sources on the left side unless I've missed something.

 

But what seems most damning is this article which finds Guardian, Independent and the i the most trusted newspapers, and The Sun and MailOnline the least.

 

I don't know, I can't seem to find anything that would support the Guardian being untrustworthy in the slightest. Certainly they are left of center and use some loaded language but they don't report inaccurate statements that could be classed as propaganda, something most right-wing newspapers do.

I figured you'd mention that so I pre-emptively went and did a fact-check on this site, a site that seems unbiased and demonstrates its methodology.

 

On accuracy of reporting:

Right-wing: Express (mixed), Telegraph (mixed), Mail (questionable), Times (high), Sun (mixed, pretty generous but okay)

 

Times is fair.

 

For left-wing: Guardian (high), Independent (high, surprisingly), Mirror (mixed)

 

No questionable sources on the left side unless I've missed something.

 

The fact that it describes The *Independant* as left-leaning gives me pause, though...

 

 

But what seems most damning is this article which finds Guardian, Independent and the i the most trusted newspapers, and The Sun and MailOnline the least.

 

Most/least trusted by whom though? Their readers? Their opponents?

 

In any case, I don't have a problem with people supporting a newspaper, whatever it's stance, as IMO newspapers are as least as much influenced by by their readers views, as they are driving them.

 

Obviously, people won't regularly read newspapers that have opposite views to them. :P

 

 

There is a big difference between biased reporting and outright lies. Newspapers should also feel some sort of obligation at least to give some room to alternative points of view.

 

I cannot recall a single Guardian front page in the referendum campaign that could have been mistaken for a Remain campaign leaflet. OTOH, the front pages of the Mail and Express resembled Leave campaign leaflets on many occasions.

A big problem with the left/centre of the UK (well, maybe more specifically England) is that the nationalism/patriosism side is fully associated with the right-wing. I mean I suppose a lot of it comes back to the 80s with the National Front, but the reaction to Brexit is "oh we're all f***ed, let's get an Irish passport' rather than embracing nationalism and saying yes I am british, but I am also European. Weird, as I'm sure if you look across the rest of Europe (and certain quarters of the British Isles...) nationalism is claimed by both the right/left.

 

If people are proud to come from Yorkshire for example is that associated with the right-wing? Nope. If anything I'd say it's left that push that ground. Strange one. Weird that the a lot of the left seem to distance themselves where they are from in the UK. Not having this as a dig or anything to anyone- just pointing it out as I think this is part of the reason why the far-right idelogy has grown and seemingly blinded lots of general people.

 

It's because of the British history of colonialism which has always been claimed by the right since the 19th century and this in turn is the same people

 

There has always been a strong link between the right and nationalism in the UK, and it has represented something especially nasty over the last few years. It's not difficult to understand why the left doesn't want to be associated with that.

 

I don't think the majority of the left are actually as unpatriotic as people think though — they're just not harkening back to the days of the empire. I'm proud to live in a country with the NHS, to have the freedoms that I have, etc. I just think we can do better.

Anyway, I do hope that the significant proportion of Boris’ cabinet that spoke out against prorogation are planning to resign, because they are so honourable and are known for keeping their word (below copied from reddit):

 

Amber Rudd: “We are not Stuart kings”

 

Matt Hancock: Proroguing Parliament undermines parliamentary democracy and risks a general election. I rule it out and call on all candidates to do the same

 

Sajid Javid: "You don't deliver democracy by trashing democracy - you can't just shut down parliament"

 

Michael Gove: “It would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy” - BBC's Marr show.

 

Andrea Leadsom: "No I don’t believe I would (support prorogation) and I don’t believe it would happen"

 

Nicky Morgan: “Proroguing Parliament is clearly a mad suggestion” - BBC Question Time

Ach will they f***. If they had morals or principles they wouldn’t be a tory

@1166851736016969728

 

Terrible.

 

There has always been a strong link between the right and nationalism in the UK, and it has represented something especially nasty over the last few years. It's not difficult to understand why the left doesn't want to be associated with that.

 

I don't think the majority of the left are actually as unpatriotic as people think though — they're just not harkening back to the days of the empire. I'm proud to live in a country with the NHS, to have the freedoms that I have, etc. I just think we can do better.

 

The left uses it for good such as making it about equality and the state like SF/PC/SNP

There needs to be a better way of distinguishing between Civic Nationalism and Blood & Soil Nationalism in day to day discourse. Fed up of people lumping all nationalist movements together. There is absolutely no similarities between the neo nazi Brexit party and the SNP and yet the Tories and their media pals are happy to lump both in the same nationalist basket. The latter welcomes migrants and the contributions they make, the former want to round them up and deport them or gleefully watch them drown in the channel when they attempt to come to our country while calling them cockroaches. Hardly similar

Gordon Brown has said the EU is going to withdraw the deadline! His little coup will be for nothing if parliament comes back to an extended desdline :rofl:

Meanwhile, the current DExEU Secretary has tweeted about just-in-time supply chains and how important they are. He gives the impression that this is news to him, despite many people having been warning about the consequences of ending frictionless trade for many months. He wants to start talks now about how this can continue if we leave without a deal. He seems blissfully unaware that this seamless trade is part of the single market he wants to leave. Is there no end to this government's ignorance?

Meanwhile, the current DExEU Secretary has tweeted about just-in-time supply chains and how important they are. He gives the impression that this is news to him, despite many people having been warning about the consequences of ending frictionless trade for many months. He wants to start talks now about how this can continue if we leave without a deal. He seems blissfully unaware that this seamless trade is part of the single market he wants to leave. Is there no end to this government's ignorance?

 

Not really a surprise to us, though it is shocking that these people have managed to get into these important roles despite being so ignorant.

 

British driving licences will no longer be sufficient on their own to drive in parts of Europe (crucially in France) in the event of a No Deal, I presume this would have been in one of David Davis' impact assessments, had he actually bothered to work on them.

So many things these dense dipshits haven’t even begun to thought about. This is just such a fundamentally stupid idea.

 

The manufacturers have been saying for 4 years that JiT manufacturing is dependent on single market and customs union membership. I just don’t get why anyone with a functioning brain would think that no deal is a good idea. 40 years of progress and integration ceases immediately with nothing to replace it. It’s the shit like reciprocal recognition of standards and qualifications that are unglamorous and would never make the side of a bus but make our country work that is gonna be the real killer come brexshit day.

 

I reckon I’ll probably need one for when I relocate to Germany in a few months so I’m getting an IDP. Will exchange my license immediately to try and get in before any transition arrangements end on the German side but the IDP will cover me to be safe in the interim. I feel for the haulage crews who are potentially gonna be stranded on the continent unable to drive if they’re unaware they need one

If the EU remove the deadline date, then I truly believe the EU have outsmarted Boris Johnson. After the parliment trick was passed, I didn't think the EU would consider removing the 31st October deadline.

 

From all of what I am reading it's clear the Government is considering short term solutions and wondering how to win a General Election. Luckily most big scales businesses have considered the supply chain impact, but I can tell you it's truly at breaking point. A No Deal Brexit will inevitably lead to a lot of carnage and the Government's plan must surely have been to pin the blame on the EU to win the support at home- if the EU remove the deadline then it makes it harder for the emotional message to hit home.

@1167555834878058501

If the EU remove the deadline date, then I truly believe the EU have outsmarted Boris Johnson. After the parliment trick was passed, I didn't think the EU would consider removing the 31st October deadline.

 

From all of what I am reading it's clear the Government is considering short term solutions and wondering how to win a General Election. Luckily most big scales businesses have considered the supply chain impact, but I can tell you it's truly at breaking point. A No Deal Brexit will inevitably lead to a lot of carnage and the Government's plan must surely have been to pin the blame on the EU to win the support at home- if the EU remove the deadline then it makes it harder for the emotional message to hit home.

 

Trying to fight one on people v parliament. Lord knows they can't win one on likeability, honesty, policy or caring for the average person!

@1167555834878058501

 

Brexiters ... comments? Without the all PolitIcIAnS LiE defence you all love.

IN case anyone is wondering, I think Boris proroging parliament was OTT.