That's what a referendum does it creates 2 polarising sides unfortunately.

 

People voted for so many different reasons hence why no agreement can be achieved through parliament especially when the HOC is so full of people who are ardent remainers and will use this fact to make sure no agreement is possible. But the argument that people voted to leave for more opportunities and this will not happen is just people trying to rerun the referendum campaign and using it as a reason not to leave at all. Brexit is a constitutional change which rearranges Britain's relationship with Europe and markets.

 

No constitutional change through history would ever occur if this argument had been used. I always use the Irish analogy in 1921, Irish freedom which the majority wanted at this time would obviously create a population which would have lesser living standards in the short term but that didn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do in fact in the longer term it liberated many parts of Irish society for the better.

 

So the constitutional and democratic mandate demanded by the people should be first and foremost and the economic debate should be reorganised as best as possible following this.

 

1. EU is not an oppressor. The UK was.

 

2. 51% is simply not enough. The end.

 

Give over with the action for action's sake, it's the preserve of the idiot and those who are ensnared by an outcome no matter the realism of attaining such outcome.

This is twisted. Not all constitutional change is created equal and the EU were absolutely not doing to us what Britain a century ago was doing to Ireland.

 

Rooney's right in that most people voted on their own economic view which is flawed and from a bad perspective; entirely possible for them to have got it wrong. Nations should not be bound to follow destructive courses because of some blind appeal to a snapshot in time.

 

You know that if the Brexiteers in Parliament had not tried to force through their favoured outcome of profiting off disaster, we'd have embarked upon a soft Brexit. Which is not commendable at all, at least the other MPs voted it down because it was strictly worse than what Britain has now, which is commendable.

 

 

Its not twisted it goes to the crux of my views on the argument.

 

2019 and 1919 are very different times but clearly enough people were passionate enough about what the EU 'is doing' that they wanted to leave. And not all voters voted for economic reasons anyway.

1. EU is not an oppressor. The UK was.

 

2. 51% is simply not enough. The end.

 

 

It was 52-48 though if I recall correctly. Stop posting inaccurate figures.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense

All the young ones were too lazy to get out of bed and go to vote. :rolleyes:

 

 

...Or to busy at work.

 

Work is this thing where you...oh nevermind.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by mald487

...Or to busy at work.

 

Work is this thing where you...oh nevermind.

 

 

I know many students didn't vote because they were only registered at their parents address and had never bothered to register at their uni address. My late daughter came home that day in plenty of time to vote but said "it doesn't affect my life so why should I vote" :( I tried to get her to come with me and her mum to vote OUT as we both did. She also said she didn't understand it so didn't know how to vote.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense

Its not twisted it goes to the crux of my views on the argument.

 

2019 and 1919 are very different times but clearly enough people were passionate enough about what the EU 'is doing' that they wanted to leave. And not all voters voted for economic reasons anyway.

If people only voted of the felt passionately about it, turnout would be very low. The best way of judging how passionate people were about leaving the EU is to look at the number of major demonstrations there were before Cameron announced his referendum. Here is a list of the dates of those demonstrations and an estimate of the number of people who attended.

 

 

 

 

There we are, Now, how many people do you think felt passionately about it?

The amount of demonstrations isn't really an accurate reflection because not all people protest in that way especially in GB. But many people were beginning to vote in European elections for parties which wanted to leave the EU and also British opinion was never on board with the project post 1992 and there were even great division from the Single European Act in 1986.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Steve201

And yet seeing as it got 27% of the population in a non-binding vote and 2 nations, even after months of press propaganda and Bojo lies that the BBTory rushed to cover, then yeah. You can tell it wasn't a massive issue. That's before consulting thr STATISTICS which clesrly show no one cared pre-referendum when dorced to pick a side.

And yet seeing as it got 27% of the population in a non-binding vote and 2 nations, even after months of press propaganda and Bojo lies that the BBTory rushed to cover, then yeah. You can tell it wasn't a massive issue. That's before consulting thr STATISTICS which clesrly show no one cared pre-referendum when dorced to pick a side.

 

 

I wish you'd stop going on about the different nations. :rolleyes: We are ONE NATION at present, the UNITED KINGDOM and it was a joint vote for all regions. I know Scotland voted to remain but it doesn't count as it's the result as a whole that counted. In fact they'd have been better not saying how different towns, cities and regions voted.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense

All the young ones were too lazy to get out of bed and go to vote. :rolleyes:

 

Maybe they were at work or school, not staying around the house with no other responsibilities.

I wish you'd stop going on about the different nations. :rolleyes: We are ONE NATION at present, the UNITED KINGDOM and it was a joint vote for all regions. I know Scotland voted to remain but it doesn't count as it's the result as a whole that counted. In fact they'd have been better not saying how different towns, cities and regions voted.

There are a number of federal states where constitutional change has to be agreed by a majority of those states as well as getting a majority (or super-majority) of the overall vote. As has been said here many times (but the message doesn't seem to have been received by everyone), there were no thresholds of any kind specifically because the referendum was only advisory. Going ahead with leaving based on such a narrow majority and with no fresh vote on the detail (rather than the vague concept) is the height of stupidity and recklessness,

Not ‘convenient’, just simple fact. We clearly benefit from free trade within the EU but it is impossible to be certain of the precise value of that benefit. Similarly, it is impossible to calculate the value of freeedom of movement of goods between the UK and the rest of the EU or the cost of the extra bureaucracy which may be involved in trading with the EU.

We did work it out at work for a tool we developed - the cost to a business is £25-40 per declaration (a few variables at play). Some big companies are facing bills in the tens of millions just in completing the customs paperwork.

 

Never mind the immeasurable opportunity cost

 

No but at least we'd have left. I'm afraid, really afraid now after the Benn Act, that we never will.

I’m afraid that I’m going to be unable to relocate to Berlin in 60 days time. I’m afraid that I will lose an opportunity to take a high paying job in another EU country. I’m afraid I’m going to be denied opportunities and rights afforded to all other EU nationals. Most of all I’m afraid that my one link to my country of birth is being separated through the actions of a narrow minded band of bigots cutting their nose off to spite their face who have no interest in taking full advantage of the rights and privileges afforded to them by EU membership.

 

You and Nita both voting out is so short sighted. Who the f*** do you think they’re coming for next? They’ve targeted EU immigrants but our huge need for inward migration isn’t gonna vanish overnight. We NEED migrants to survive. Their next target is Nita. Doesn’t matter how long her and other migrants have been here as windrush proved. Anyone non-white is in the cross hairs of the gutter press next. The mail and the Tories already hate people on benefits. They don’t even believe depression is real. They’ve proven one and time again over the past 4 years hat experts don’t matter. You’ll be forced into work in a year. Don’t copy paste your standard bollocks about appealing. They’ll change the rules so you can’t or so you don’t qualify or they’ll just stop the benefit all together and who’s gonna stop them? Free of the ECHr you have no legal protection left to fall back on.

 

Can’t believe how nonchalant you are about f***ing my whole life up

 

I wish you'd stop going on about the different nations. :rolleyes: We are ONE NATION at present, the UNITED KINGDOM and it was a joint vote for all regions. I know Scotland voted to remain but it doesn't count as it's the result as a whole that counted. In fact they'd have been better not saying how different towns, cities and regions voted.

The United Kingdom is not a nation. It is a political union of two kingdoms, a principality and a province. England and Scotland are nations. The UK is a political construct.

 

She’s got to stay in the news somehow or people will forget she exists.

 

I don’t want Corbyn as caretaker PM. Defeats the purpose of the exercise imo. As already said, it needs to be someone who doesn’t have permanent designs on the office or a technocrat. Only reason they need to be in office is to extend article 50 and call an election. They need to be in office for like 5 hrs max. As far as I’m concerned I don’t care if it’s an MP or someone from Starbucks over the road

I save my admiration for the judge that locks him up for violating the Benn Act or the principled MPs standing up for our future and democracy by preventing a no deal.

 

There is no mandate for a no deal Brexit. They campaigned for a EFTA Brexit and that is what they got a mandate from the people for. Twisting that into a no deal Brexit is a greater betrayal of Brexit than delaying the exit date so that we avoid no deal ever could be

I shall ignore the pointless attack on Jo Swinson.

 

Any interim PM would need to be in place for a good deal longer than a few hours, possibly as much as a few months. First, we have to have a Prime Minister. That is why Gordon Brown stayed in Number 10 (and was right to do so) for a few days after the 2010 election.

 

The earliest an election can now be held is the beginning of November. If there is no confidence vote this week, that becomes mid-November. Realistically, none of the parties really want that. The interim GNU would, therefore, have to carry on into the new year. If the EU withdrawal process is put on hold pending an election / referendum, the government can continue with uncontentious matters such as the Domestic Violence Bill and changes to divorce law that were initially lost when parliament was prorogued. As the prorogation now didn't happen, that legislation can now continue its passage through parliament.

 

I still think a fresh referendum would be better than a general election. Single issue elections are not a good idea.

 

 

You and Nita both voting out is so short sighted. Who the f*** do you think they’re coming for next?

 

 

Nita is a British Citizen now with a British passport so has full rights to stay here. :)

 

I didn't tell her to vote out. She made her own mind up.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense

I’m afraid that I’m going to be unable to relocate to Berlin in 60 days time. I’m afraid that I will lose an opportunity to take a high paying job in another EU country. I’m afraid I’m going to be denied opportunities and rights afforded to all other EU nationals. Most of all I’m afraid that my one link to my country of birth is being separated through the actions of a narrow minded band of bigots cutting their nose off to spite their face who have no interest in taking full advantage of the rights and privileges afforded to them by EU membership.

 

Can’t believe how nonchalant you are about f***ing my whole life up.

 

 

Gosh you're so melodramatic. As if our two votes have f***ed your life up as you put it. :rolleyes:

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense

Nothing about the other sentences? Just the last one yeah?

 

Nothing to say about cutting off my connection to my birth place. Do you feel any shame for what you did to young people in 2016?

Well f***ing done for picking that single sentence out and ignoring a post full of valid points as per usual

 

Oh how I wish this sites management would quit being quite so spineless and follow digital spy’s example. Not as if you actually ever contribute to a discussion in here or respond to anything.

 

 

I am contributing to the discussion. Just because you disagree with my opinions doesn't mean they're any less valid.

 

I also contribute to other areas of the site such as music and The Lounge.

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense

I am contributing to the discussion. Just because you disagree with my opinions doesn't mean they're any less valid.

Are you heck as like. You ignore anything that has a contrary view point to your microscopic world view, ignore anyone’s attempts to engage you in discussion about your opinions.

 

If your opinions are valid you should be able to stand behind them. You don’t. Perhaps because they’re indefensible nonsense

Nothing about the other sentences? Just the last one yeah?

 

Nothing to say about cutting off my connection to my birth place. Do you feel any shame for what you did to young people in 2016?

 

 

So why didn't more young people vote then? Why didn't Universities involve students more in politics and try to persuade them to vote in the referendum? Hardly my fault if more older people voted and out won is it. We had 2 votes out of 17 million.

Are you heck as like. You ignore anything that has a contrary view point to your microscopic world view, ignore anyone’s attempts to engage you in discussion about your opinions.

 

If your opinions are valid you should be able to stand behind them. You don’t. Perhaps because they’re indefensible nonsense

 

 

My opinion is that we should leave the EU as soon as possible. I'm far from being alone in that viewpoint. Maybe not many Brexiteers here.

 

Anyway I am virtually resigned to the fact that we will never leave now. :(

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by Common Sense