The polls seem very polarised there’s many who are arch Indy 2 supporters but others not all traditional unionists who are very pro union now due to the question being the centre of everything in Scottish politics - a bit like NI. It might be hard to come back from that. I mean all local news in NI is dominated by the constitutional future of the state and its hyped up by the media including the bbc

Looks like the mainstream media are going to try their best to bring down Sturgeon over the next 12 months!

Looks like the mainstream media are going to try their best to bring down Sturgeon over the next 12 months!

 

We live in a one party state where the media is just state propaganda. This is no surprise.

Agreed. Scotland needs to press on with independence to get away from the Tories and the foul corrupting media.

The media are absolutely shocking.

 

How Hancock had no mention of his court in any of the papers imagine if that was Nicola

Yeh the Spectator is really pushing the story which is no surprise given their unionist and establishmentarian views. They even tried to suggest on Politics Live yesterday that Scotland was a one party state yday and were being serious. Obviously the fact that the SNP have been democratically elected since 2007 didn’t come into the conversation

Theres two parts to this as I see it. The first is that Salmonds ego has been damaged and he wants to take down Sturgeon in revenge. That she is both more popular than him and closer than he ever came to winning Indy also bruised his ego as he wants to be the one to take it over the line. His petty small mindedness is being used as a tool by the second part of this story. A desperate unionist media and hostile political establishment in Westminster that is hell bent on the destruction of the SNP and Holyrood as it stands in their way of a single party state where they can continue to exploit Scotland’s natural resources for their own gain and do away with anything that threatens their ideology.

 

 

Salmond and his supporters are being played like f***ing fiddles. They’re hopelessly out of their depth and their now doing serious harm to our cause. We are closer than ever to freedom and we cannot like this small man and his f***ing fragile ego destroy our progress and our future.

Yes (I understand why Scotland would want it) but if Scotland gets a 2nd indyref on grounds of the EU ref there should also be a 2nd EU ref. We get general elections every 5 years. :lol:

 

If Scotland does leave I'd start seriously considering emigrating because it would mean being stuck in permanent Tory hell.

Well Tony Blair won elections for Labour with such huge majorities he didn’t need the Scottish seats. And we’ve been living under Tory hell since 2010 with Scotland part of the union. My hope that if Scotland go for independence it will shake up the political system in rest of U.K. Can’t be any worse than now can it?

I think Scotland leaving the UK is inevitable by the end of the decade - Boris Johnson is the biggest gift ever to the nationalists, since he has taken over as PM support for independence has shown steady growth in the polls. His refusal to allow a referendum will only lead that to grow further, and furthermore the support is pretty solid across the age groups with a lead for independence in EVERY group under 65.

 

The union is finished.

Well Tony Blair won elections for Labour with such huge majorities he didn’t need the Scottish seats. And we’ve been living under Tory hell since 2010 with Scotland part of the union. My hope that if Scotland go for independence it will shake up the political system in rest of U.K. Can’t be any worse than now can it?

True but

 

- Blair had to go neolib centre to do that- don't get me wrong, better but not ideal

- Scotland is guaranteed to go mostly not Tory so they're always a safe bet in a potential coalition if nothing else. If it came to it I bet the SNP would form a coalition with Labour (or even Lib Dems, Green etc in addition if significant enough and they needed the extra seats). With Tories even winning Labour heartlands last election, with Scotland gone I just can't see it ever changing until the boomers are gone to put it bluntly. Not to mention if Scotland goes, Northern Ireland could follow.

- I'm not so hopeful, I was too hopeful for the 2019 election and people were still up for more austerity, slow privatisation of the NHS and a vague (read: failed) plan for Brexit, setting our economy up for ruin. Even with the horrific handling of COVID, the rushing through parliament of the Brexit bill and the dire consequences (which will be covered up by COVID) I have no confidence whatsoever that we're going to see any change for the next 10-15 years, and Scotland leaving will only exacerbate the issue for the rest of the union and likely extend that period. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it. Labour is weak and won't even attack the government for the stupid shit they do. At least the SNP condemn the government when appropriate.

 

I just hope you're right about it shaking up politics across the rest of the union if it does happen but I expect Tory voters either won't care or will just be glad to see Nicola Sturgeon on their screens a little less. Like I can see why Scotland wants to be separate because they're so different politically these days- no prescription costs for NHS, no Tuition fees within Scotland etc.

 

Mind you Scotland is only good for the rest of the union politically as far as forming a government goes. Even if Scottish Labour recovered now (which they won't) when they did have power they still gifted the rest of the union (not including Scotland of course) with things like this back in the day, in full knowledge that it wouldn't affect Scotland. The SNP are nationalists (obviously) so the devolved government and people who voted for them have an obvious separate identity and only care for their own interests, and I don't blame them given the state of Westminster.

Oh I quite agree that things are bad in England/Wales with previously called Labour heartlands switching blue primarily due to reasons of national and cultural identity and that deserves a whole new topic. But there is no reason that Scotland should stay to prop the rest of the country up - they need to do what is best for them as the Tory government in Westminster have made it clear that they are not regarded as a nation on equal footing with the other nations but more as a subservient region (ignoring the mandate for remaining in the EU and pursuing a virtual no deal Brexit is the clearest indication of that).

 

I do think that losing Scotland would be a huge blow and embarrassment for the Tories (let's not forget that the Tories have now set up a Union unit to try and save the union) and for the country's reputation. The rest of the UK estranged from the EU will be more and more isolated. Plus hopefully the rest of the UK will have to ask themselves why Scotland will want to leave us and may stir us out of the inertia. Although of course no guarantees of that.

 

Oh I quite agree that things are bad in England/Wales with previously called Labour heartlands switching blue primarily due to reasons of national and cultural identity and that deserves a whole new topic. But there is no reason that Scotland should stay to prop the rest of the country up - they need to do what is best for them as the Tory government in Westminster have made it clear that they are not regarded as a nation on equal footing with the other nations but more as a subservient region (ignoring the mandate for remaining in the EU and pursuing a virtual no deal Brexit is the clearest indication of that).

 

I do think that losing Scotland would be a huge blow and embarrassment for the Tories (let's not forget that the Tories have now set up a Union unit to try and save the union) and for the country's reputation. The rest of the UK estranged from the EU will be more and more isolated. Plus hopefully the rest of the UK will have to ask themselves why Scotland will want to leave us and may stir us out of the inertia. Although of course no guarantees of that.

 

Scotland shouldn't stay in the Union just so England can get a Labour Government. Labour have a lot of problems and lost the Centre ground to the Tories and more importantly, their heartlad identity to the Tories. I don't want to derail this thread as the direction of Labour always tends to go there, and usually revoles around Labour are not right-wing enough OR they are not left-wing enough :lol: They have to do something different than they did previously and not push the Centre to vote Tory. I really do feel there is the opportunity to do this whilst remaining some really key social policies. As much as people don't want to hear it, it is always the Labour-Tory floater voters that get a party over the line normally.

 

I think it is inevitable that the Union will finish within the next 10 years. But I also think the Tories are going to make it as difficult as possible to happen and when it likely does happen it will not be pretty in the short-medium term but longer term it would work for sure. I can't claim to know enough about the Salmon-Sturgeon events currently playing out in the media. I can't really see the logic from him in playing out a public battle with Sturgeon. Not really sure what his end-game is as I am sure he wants Scottish independence.

This is his endgame

 

@1365290729355022337

 

He cannot stand that HE won’t be the one to win Indy and so instead he is trying his level best to bring down the one person who is standing in his way of HIM being the person to deliver Indy. In spite of the fact that Sturgeon has come so close because people like her whereas even a majority of SNP voters think Salmond is a c**t.

 

We’re gonna stay chained to f***ing England all because his ego can’t handle a woman finishing the job for him

This is his endgame

 

@1365290729355022337

 

He cannot stand that HE won’t be the one to win Indy and so instead he is trying his level best to bring down the one person who is standing in his way of HIM being the person to deliver Indy. In spite of the fact that Sturgeon has come so close because people like her whereas even a majority of SNP voters think Salmond is a c**t.

 

We’re gonna stay chained to f***ing England all because his ego can’t handle a woman finishing the job for him

 

That would make some sense. It does all seem really bizzare though from an Scottish Independence perspective as Sturgeon aside I don't think there is anyone else who is as good as her to deliver independence if she were forced to resign. And he is also not particularly popular either, which makes it even the more bizzare. I'm not close on anything at all so I can't proclaim to have any big opinion or insight but it just seems mad that Salmond is doing the Tories work for them.

The likes of The Spectator, TERFs, Jackie Baillie, Wings Over Scotland types, Murdo Fraser all clubbing together with Alex Salmond to bring down the mainstream SNP is just really funny. An unholy alliance of several varieties of awful that on paper should all hate each other.

Some SNP MPs and MSPs are outing themselves as having absolute worm for brains over this.

 

So many supposed Indy supporters are being played for fools by unionists and an entire state/media enterprise geared towards crushing Scottish nationalism, culture and language

Some SNP MPs and MSPs are outing themselves as having absolute worm for brains over this.

I don't know about MSPs but I checked the three* SNP MP backbenchers' Twitter likes and....yep.

 

*Having a shadow frontbench of 45 and a backbench of 3 is top-tier trolling.

I do feel sorry for Alex Salmond as he was after all found innocent of the sexual assault accusations against him.

I’m positive Nicola will come through this and will look like a better leader after it all fails! The tories on social media have been relentless especially mp’s