December 9, 20204 yr Anyone else not think Ursula looks a bit like Theresa May when she smiles? Albeit a glamorous European version of her!
December 9, 20204 yr Talks haven't gone well, the writing is on the wall now. It will be interesting to see what the big business players do now to try and lobby the Government, not that they will listen. Tesco has gone on the offensive today pre-warning people and most companies have been agencies as their stance is aligned. This is going to be the single worst piece of foreign policy for generations.
December 10, 20204 yr Ian Birrell reminder on Brexit lies: 1) Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history.' Liam Fox, July 2017 6) 'The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.' Michael Gove, April 2016 8) 'What we’ve got to do as a government & as a parliamentary party is show we are bigger than the sum of our parts. If we take a bit more of that approach, a bit more unity of purpose, we’ll get a great result out of Brexit. We’ll also unite the country.' Dominic Raab, June 2018 9) 'I will be advocating Vote Leave because I want a better deal for the people of this country, to save them money and to take control.' Boris Johnson, Feb 2016 10) 'It is like threading the eye of a needle. If you have a good eye and a steady hand, it is easy enough,' David Davis, December 2016, dismissing fears a Brexit deal might be difficult 11) 'Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market,' Daniel Hannan, May 2015 12) 'There is no reason why the UK’s only land border should be any less open after Brexit than it is today.” Theresa Villiers, April 2016, on the Irish issue 14) “Without our EU budget contributions, we could give everyone a 60 per cent council tax cut.” Daniel Hannan, September 2015 15) “If we vote to leave then I think the union will be stronger.' Michael Gove, May 2016 18) ‘Within 2 years, before negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, & therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at point of exit.’ David Davis, July 2016 21) ‘The Conservative party will ensure that we fulfil our duty in ensuring that stability, so that we can all, as one country go forward together.’ Theresa May, 2017 25) 'I am confident that Theresa May and her team can deliver an arrangement that suits both the UK and the members of the EU.' Iain Duncan Smith, March 2017 26) 'There are good grounds for a new government team to offer the public a voice on what the deal looks like. And we obviously wouldn’t oppose that... I think there’s a strong democratic case for it.' Dominic Cummings, Vote Leave campaign director, Jan 2016 29) 'The whole issue of the Irish border has been wholly exaggerated...this is all being blown up out of all proportion,' @OwenPaterson , October 2017 (h/t @NaomiOhReally ) There's 100 quotes, but you get the idea. Either Brexiteers lied through their teeth about every promise that they have failed to deliver, or they are utterly useless and deluded. Or both. So liars or morons, there can be no other assessment of Johnson and his cronies. All PR bullshit that they try to use to justify their utter failure and incompetence is just that: PR bullshit. It was all a lie so they can get a Hard Brexit and use it as a means to remove all sorts of rights for the gullible voters who fell for their propaganda and promises. The EU will never budge because to give the same deal to a non-member is to invite the end of the EU. The Tory twats just can't grasp that concept. we will serve as a warning, as it was predictable right from the start that's what would happen. Brexiteers of course WANT the end of the EU, that's always been the aim: to give more power to the rich and powerful. Helped by morons like Corbyn "Let's get out immediately!" far-left-wingers who are equally blinkered about reality and what was always really at stake. As I said back in 2016 I will never stop saying those four little words "I told you so", and neither should anyone else. As soon as they turn up on TV to sell their latest bollocks, all commentators and non-Brexiteers should remind them of their lies and failure. A Hard Brexit was always denied, all the way through, by everybody involved in the campaign and Tories trying to win elections after the campaign as they went about a purge of the sane from their party. Johnson has 2 choices: accept EU terms by Sunday, or show himself to be a liar and a fool. We already know he's a liar and a fool, but it will be a neon red flashing headline with fireworks explosions over his head if we get the Hard Brexit at the absolute worst moment economically in living memory.
December 10, 20204 yr Johnson has 2 choices: accept EU terms by Sunday, or show himself to be a liar and a fool. We already know he's a liar and a fool, but it will be a neon red flashing headline with fireworks explosions over his head if we get the Hard Brexit at the absolute worst moment economically in living memory. As Raab said on ITV earlier, why should he accept EU terms just like that to avoid a No Deal if those terms will be detrimental to the UK.
December 10, 20204 yr As Raab said on ITV earlier, why should he accept EU terms just like that to avoid a No Deal if those terms will be detrimental to the UK. THEY HAD FOUR YEARS, PLUS THE 40 BEFORE THE FRADULENT GLORIFIED OPINION POLL!! THEY KNOW WHAT THE EU WILL ACCEPT AND WHAT IT WON'T!! THEY SAID THEY HAD AN OVEN-READY DEAL. YOU STAMPED AROUND THE SITE FOR WEEKS SHOUTING, OVEN-READY, OVEN-READY!!!! PLUS!! They promsied we would stay in the single market. PLUS! there is a PANDEMIC and they were offered a further two year extension due to said pandemic. Refusing all of this for Total Brexshit is negligent and every death caused by it, from depression to hunger, is on this vile "government's" shoulders.
December 10, 20204 yr As Raab said on ITV earlier, why should he accept EU terms just like that to avoid a No Deal if those terms will be detrimental to the UK. Completely ignoring the fact that WTO terms are detrimental to the UK too.
December 10, 20204 yr As Raab said on ITV earlier, why should he accept EU terms just like that to avoid a No Deal if those terms will be detrimental to the UK. Chris, you're ignoring the point: Who says those terms will be detrimental to the UK? Brexiteers. No-one else says that. Brexiteers who have spent 5 years lying about everything and not delivered what they promised. That you continue to believe proven liars and everything they claim over people who have been proven right by events shows a degree of self-denial which is pretty typical of groups of people who have been fired up by fraudulent liars. We are in dire economic circumstances and will all be worse off for years to come - even the government liars have admitted that - and making us trade on terrible WTO terms with the EU, all the countries that we currently have no non-EU deals with, and the USA, is to make a bad situation much worse and will just inflict misery on everyone. If WTO terms are beneficial everyone would be exclusively using them. They dont because they aren't. We will never get better deals than any we had in the EU because we don't have that clout on our own. Don't expect workers rights, pensions and social security benefits to remain the same. We are deep in debt and getting deeper. Our local Council is tens of millions in debt and 400-600 more jobs are going leaving a bare-bones skeleton workforce. Services will decline. Getting a deal is the sensible approach, why are the UK Gov digging in their heels about not keeping up the same standards of labour and products as the EU? Because they want them to get worse! Blatantly obviously they want them to drop, or they would reassure us in writing that they have no intention of undermining them by signing the agreement to that effect. Fishing? It's worth bugger-all to the economy. What are they going to do to enforce it? Hire a Navy? Theyve hacked at the Forces! We don't have the capacity and it'll be expensive.
December 10, 20204 yr As Raab said on ITV earlier, why should he accept EU terms just like that to avoid a No Deal if those terms will be detrimental to the UK. Listen up weapon, literally ANY DEAL is better than no deal. ANYTHING. No Deal is catastrophic. No deal pushes onto tariffs and quotas and hoardes of red tape like you wouldn’t believe. Literally any deal with the EU would remove or reduce tariffs and quotas. Therefore defacto being better by just existing and being signed Any moron with more than 3 functioning brain cells can understand this. It’s not a hard concept.
December 10, 20204 yr Listen up weapon, literally ANY DEAL is better than no deal. ANYTHING. Well our Foreign Secretary disagrees with that. I'll take his word over some stranger on a music forum thanks. One minister gave the analogy the other day of selling your house. Your new home's ready, curtain's bought and the purchaser of your present home offers you 50k less. You'd be stupid to roll over and accept it just to sell it quickly. Yes, Raab said we could get a deal today but it would mean rolling over and accepting everything the EU wants. Thankfully he said, Boris will not do that. You should all be glad he's out there fighting for the UK. Edited December 10, 20204 yr by CHRIS-TMAS
December 10, 20204 yr Oh and even if there's no agreement this year and we leave with No Deal, Sky News said there can still be more talks next year. Doesn't mean we'll never have a deal. I didn't know that. How many of you did?
December 10, 20204 yr Oh and I can clear something up for you and especially Michael here. Raab said the "oven ready" deal that Boris fought the election on was actually the WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT that was passed as soon as Parliament reconvened. Boris didn't mean the trade deal or anything that they're negotiating now. So he cleared that up. Now why couldn't other ministers have cleared that up before. I think one or two did actually. Edited December 10, 20204 yr by CHRIS-TMAS
December 10, 20204 yr Oh and I can clear something up for you and especially Michael here. Raab said the "oven ready" deal that Boris fought the election on was actually the WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT that was passed as soon as Parliament reconvened. Boris didn't mean the trade deal or anything that they're negotiating now. So he cleared that up. Now why couldn't other ministers have cleared that up before. I think one or two did actually. This is literally what everyone was saying 12 months ago but it still kept being framed as including the trade deal because they were going to ‘get Brexit done’ by 31 January so they could focus on 20,000 new police officers, 40 new hospitals and whatever the only other policy they had was. They promised on multiple occasions that there would not be no deal. Just look at the election thread and it’s all there for you, you probably rubbished it at the time.
December 10, 20204 yr Well our Foreign Secretary disagrees with that. I'll take his word over some stranger on a music forum thanks. One minister gave the analogy the other day of selling your house. Your new home's ready, curtain's bought and the purchaser of your present home offers you 50k less. You'd be stupid to roll over and accept it just to sell it quickly. Yes, Raab said we could get a deal today but it would mean rolling over and accepting everything the EU wants. Thankfully he said, Boris will not do that. You should all be glad he's out there fighting for the UK. You mean the Foreign Secretary who didn’t know that Dover to Calais was an important trade route? Or have I missed a reshuffle?
December 10, 20204 yr Oh and I can clear something up for you and especially Michael here. Raab said the "oven ready" deal that Boris fought the election on was actually the WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT that was passed as soon as Parliament reconvened. Boris didn't mean the trade deal or anything that they're negotiating now. So he cleared that up. Now why couldn't other ministers have cleared that up before. I think one or two did actually. Yes, the withdrawal agreement that the big fat liar then tried to break.
December 10, 20204 yr Author This is literally what everyone was saying 12 months ago but it still kept being framed as including the trade deal because they were going to ‘get Brexit done’ by 31 January so they could focus on 20,000 new police officers, 40 new hospitals and whatever the only other policy they had was. They promised on multiple occasions that there would not be no deal. Just look at the election thread and it’s all there for you, you probably rubbished it at the time. Exactly right! How unintelligent do they think the public are? Actually, they may be about right there looking at Chris' responses... Of course it's politically convenient for them to mention that now so they will. Absolutely this heightened sense of drama is because the PM finds himself in zugzwang, in other words he is screwed whenever he makes the next move. Accept the deal (which is the most likely option) and he will have the headbangers in his party screaming 'betrayal'; reject the deal and he will plunge the UK into economic and actual chaos. By making the right noises and agreeing to continue talks he gets to delay the inevitability of this final decision - he is both the saviour who saved Brexit and didn't back down, and also the leader who got the deal over the line. Like death and taxes, eventually he will have to make a decision one way or the other and fall on his sword.
December 10, 20204 yr Oh and I can clear something up for you and especially Michael here. Raab said the "oven ready" deal that Boris fought the election on was actually the WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT that was passed as soon as Parliament reconvened. Boris didn't mean the trade deal or anything that they're negotiating now. So he cleared that up. Now why couldn't other ministers have cleared that up before. I think one or two did actually. Everyone with a brain knows it. But why do people want a deal now.. because it stops all the pain that is going to come without one and we have a weaker negotiating hand if we have left without a deal. Has one person said leaving without a deal is going to be good? These guys are absolute crooks and the sooner the Brexit loving population wake up and smell they have been duped the better.
December 10, 20204 yr Well our Foreign Secretary disagrees with that. I'll take his word over some stranger on a music forum thanks. Jesus Christ. Beyond hope.
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