https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/we-...killing-us.html

 

Sorry but this article is terrifying.

 

The story in there that relates to the person having the stroke was particularly grim. I can’t help but feel this virus just generally destroys the body of anyone who has health conditions whether these are known or unknown and causes the body to react in various ways.

 

I found it particularly scary when the British 21 year old died of it with a suspected heart attack then it turned out she had a heart attack was rushed to hospital and contracted covid there. So it seems to be difficult to tell whether the same applies to person above who had the stroke.

 

I do not think the time we have had since this outbreak started to now has been enough for the relevant experts to fully understand the disease and how it operates over time and given the amount of resource and funds being poured into all areas of this disease it is likely there will be more understanding over the coming months

 

I think one of the key things I’ve noticed from it is chosen health through maintaining a good diet and not being overweight seems to be extremely important I know a few nurses and they are all saying similar stories that 99% of people they are treating and end up in a bad way are very overweight or were already in poor health. The world does need to be a lot more health conscious

 

I think rather than terrify yourself you do need to try and remember that the morality rate of this disease is still going to be relatively low and the advice from the begging has been this is a mild illness for most people the article made it seem this is a death sentence for us all.

 

Yes; Anecdotally I now know more than 5 people who've had it, had an upleasant week or few days, but have recovered fine and are back to themselves now.

 

On that note, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case in viruses like this that our own body is what kills us, due to an overaggressive immune system response? Note that I'm not a biologist.

One of the many things we haven't got a clue about is the number of people who have it without showing any symptoms. A reliable antibody test or testing people who show no symptoms are the only real way of getting some idea of this number.

Yes; Anecdotally I now know more than 5 people who've had it, had an upleasant week or few days, but have recovered fine and are back to themselves now.

 

On that note, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the case in viruses like this that our own body is what kills us, due to an overaggressive immune system response? Note that I'm not a biologist.

 

I have had it also, well I suspect, no taste, no smell, headache, fever but it generally cleared up within a few days. I work in a big office in Central London and at least ten people I’m aware of had symptoms in my team this was back in March just after I self isolated so I really do think this disease has been widespread for months and has probably swept through London at least in way higher numbers than we realise.

Again on the New Zealand point which is a really bad example of a country to compare us to which people continue to do.

 

New Zealand has a population of 4 million, is in the middle of nowhere and has no major cities than can even compare to the likes of London.

 

All major businesses started to move very quickly when it became clear that stay at home recommendations we’re going to be implemented. How does anyone think we can shut the country down one day and expect the correct infrastructures be in place to allow many companies to work from home the next if a fast and swift lockdown was implemented.

 

I fully agree where we did fail was the continuing of mass gatherings, however, I do feel that additional week we didn’t lockdown gave the country the time to prepare. There was one death on 14th March in the UK the government would have never got away with shutting the country down with one reported death. Hindsight tells us otherwise that it would have been a good idea knowing what we know now but it was completely impractical to shut down any earlier if you consider it logically.

 

It's a terrible excuse because they sacraficed many of their own citizens as well, just in a different way. They banned domestic travel for a month, so it meant it was impossible to travel the country unless you were a worker. And they would not allow their own citizens to return from the likes of Peru and India. So yes they have eradicated the virus from the community but as a country they also made some pretty tough choices as well which forced both tourists and their own citizens in to some difficult circumstances for a month.

 

 

One of the many things we haven't got a clue about is the number of people who have it without showing any symptoms. A reliable antibody test or testing people who show no symptoms are the only real way of getting some idea of this number.

 

Who knows but I'd guess it's a high volume. Make no mistake about it, there will be a lot of people who were infected and had no idea. But the regular test is barely working and reliable so we are probably some way off an antibody test yet. I think I may have had it- had some mild chest problems for about a week and at its worst my lungs were very heavy for a good 24-36 hours. But who knows what that was without a reliable test.

The number of people on social media (some of them are, of course, bots) suggesting that it is not the job of journalists to ask ministers awkward questions is truly alarming.

 

Yes! Totally. :wacko:

 

One thing I've noticed reading through threads on Twitter, there are people who will blindly defend the government over ANYTHING if it means them not being held to account (or even facing slight criticism).

 

I actually find that rather scary. There's a word for people like that - bootlickers.

Or tories...

Looking at Worldometer has the current epicentre officially moved to the Americas yet?

 

Brazil are reporting 6,000 cases today and 500 deaths. They will be ahead of the UK on a continual basis soon it seems.

The US deaths up again to 2,400 today no sign of these really decreasing at the moment.

 

Seems the US measure their groupings in an unusual way they count Prisons and the military outside each state and also the American Indian areas. Cases are also fast growing in the Veteran Affairs category is this retired military or care homes not really clear?

 

Also not clear on how India is keeping cases and deaths relatively low are we assuming this is under reporting and lack of testing.

Regarding criticism of the government.. its quite alarmingto me how the media/gov/social media have managed to twist the very idea of HAVING any criticism of even your own 'side' as evidence of being secretly a 'leftist' or a traitor.

 

I'm certain this was initially astroturfed.

Has Crazy Chris been suspended from Buzzjack AGAIN :lol: Haven't seen him on here for ages.

 

Brazil are reporting 6,000 cases today and 500 deaths. They will be ahead of the UK on a continual basis soon it seems.

The US deaths up again to 2,400 today no sign of these really decreasing at the moment.

 

This is worrying, but hopefully Brazil along with India won't see as much spread as Europe/US because of climatic reasons. The Indian government has acted faster than the Brazilian government in locking down though.

Positive news from Spain today:

 

Spain has announced a four-phase plan to lift one of the toughest coronavirus lockdowns in Europe and return to normality by the end of June.

 

Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez said the lifting of the restrictions that have halted public life since March 14 and nearly paralysed the economy, will begin on May 4 and vary from province to province.

 

The UK need to be announcing something like this next week.

Positive news from Spain today:

 

Spain has announced a four-phase plan to lift one of the toughest coronavirus lockdowns in Europe and return to normality by the end of June.

 

Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez said the lifting of the restrictions that have halted public life since March 14 and nearly paralysed the economy, will begin on May 4 and vary from province to province.

 

The UK need to be announcing something like this next week.

There's a problem. Spain is way ahead of England (the rest of the UK is doing better) in terms of getting the number of deaths down.

 

In England, the number of surplus deaths (i.e. above the number expected for the time of year) is still rising. In Spain (and Italy for that matter), the number of surplus deaths is well past the peak and is back within the range expected having peaked at a level well below England's current level. Yet Johnson tells us that other countries admire "our apparent success".

 

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1255...6565636/photo/1

There's a problem. Spain is way ahead of England (the rest of the UK is doing better) in terms of getting the number of deaths down.

 

In England, the number of surplus deaths (i.e. above the number expected for the time of year) is still rising. In Spain (and Italy for that matter), the number of surplus deaths is well past the peak and is back within the range expected having peaked at a level well below England's current level. Yet Johnson tells us that other countries admire "our apparent success".

 

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1255...6565636/photo/1

 

Tbh my understanding of the situation is we are only 2-3 weeks behind Spain and Italy and in reality, our total numbers will look very similar as morbid as it all sounds. Most businesses are expecting us to come out the current lockdown after the May bank holiday, which I'm guessing has come from Deloitte.

 

From what I'm reading the UK is leading the way in efforts for a reliable antibody test and also in producing a vaccine. Now I'm sure a lot of it a co-global effort, it's just fortunate major operations are in the UK. But it does sound a lot like if there is going to be a way out of this, then a lot of it will come from the UK.

The children dying of side effects comment is really not accurate and potentially scaremongering.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt...vid-19-11979869

 

This article shows it is a suspected relation of covid-19 and no children have died from it so please check sources before you post misleading news.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52003804

 

"if true" I said.

Again on the New Zealand point which is a really bad example of a country to compare us to which people continue to do.

 

New Zealand has a population of 4 million, is in the middle of nowhere and has no major cities than can even compare to the likes of London.

 

All major businesses started to move very quickly when it became clear that stay at home recommendations we’re going to be implemented. How does anyone think we can shut the country down one day and expect the correct infrastructures be in place to allow many companies to work from home the next if a fast and swift lockdown was implemented.

 

I fully agree where we did fail was the continuing of mass gatherings, however, I do feel that additional week we didn’t lockdown gave the country the time to prepare. There was one death on 14th March in the UK the government would have never got away with shutting the country down with one reported death. Hindsight tells us otherwise that it would have been a good idea knowing what we know now but it was completely impractical to shut down any earlier if you consider it logically.

 

You're right, size of country and relative isolation does mean it is easier to impose Lockdown early and fully, but that is no excuse for large countries falling short when lives are at stake. If anything it's far more urgent, not less.

 

The UK government decided to allow business to carry on as normal. A sensible person would have said "close down until you have measures in place to social distance" in order to save lives. I put lives over business, especially since the tax payer is paying 80% of lost wages so there's no real need to kill your employees off before they can claim the tax-paid cash.

 

Sorry, but I'm not one to accept "Hindsight" as a Get Out Of Jail Free" card (so we'll have to differ on that) as pandemics are subject to science, we know how they work, there are models, the only question that wasn't quite clear was "is this one lethal to the reported 1% to 3% of people who catch it?" and "how easy is it to catch?" and that answer was supplied by China in late January via Chinese Doctors (VERY contagious, large percentage very ill, many die). Experts.

 

Wuhan Lockdown was 23rd January, that was the warning date for the above. Everybody assumed they had loads of time even with the example of Wuhan as a warning that they didn't, given international travel is widespread and daily. As I keep saying, this was all in the 1975 BBC TV series Survivors - except that they showed a world where 95% died as opposed to 95% recovered - so it's not as if we didn't know what to expect, but politicians have a habit of assuming the best-case scenario and pandemics have a habit of not giving a fig about politicians and their assumptions......

 

 

You're right, size of country and relative isolation does mean it is easier to impose Lockdown early and fully, but that is no excuse for large countries falling short when lives are at stake. If anything it's far more urgent, not less.

 

The UK government decided to allow business to carry on as normal. A sensible person would have said "close down until you have measures in place to social distance" in order to save lives. I put lives over business, especially since the tax payer is paying 80% of lost wages so there's no real need to kill your employees off before they can claim the tax-paid cash.

 

Sorry, but I'm not one to accept "Hindsight" as a Get Out Of Jail Free" card (so we'll have to differ on that) as pandemics are subject to science, we know how they work, there are models, the only question that wasn't quite clear was "is this one lethal to the reported 1% to 3% of people who catch it?" and "how easy is it to catch?" and that answer was supplied by China in late January via Chinese Doctors (VERY contagious, large percentage very ill, many die). Experts.

 

Wuhan Lockdown was 23rd January, that was the warning date for the above. Everybody assumed they had loads of time even with the example of Wuhan as a warning that they didn't, given international travel is widespread and daily. As I keep saying, this was all in the 1975 BBC TV series Survivors - except that they showed a world where 95% died as opposed to 95% recovered - so it's not as if we didn't know what to expect, but politicians have a habit of assuming the best-case scenario and pandemics have a habit of not giving a fig about politicians and their assumptions......

 

That's a bit unfair though about Wuhan, it's clear the information out of China was uninformative and unreliable.. I mean the WHO didn't even call this a pandemic early March and most of the whole world didn't really take note until Italy got hit pretty badly. Most businesses across the world carried on for some time. How do you get public engagement when it doesn't mean anything? There are thousands dying every day across the Middle East and Africa etc. etc. through war and all sorts of shit but nobody really cares unless there is an emotive reason to care. Shutting the world down cripples the economy, so while it is the right thing to do in the short term, make no mistake about it there is going to be mass redunancies, business restructres and collapses throughout the world.

 

But as a positive of the pandemic, lots of businesses seem to have taken note that you don't need international/domestic travel between operation sites and locations, the technology is there in place. So perhaps one positive is hopefully there are some cost savings attached that can save jobs etc. - although I won't hold my breath!

 

 

Tbh my understanding of the situation is we are only 2-3 weeks behind Spain and Italy and in reality, our total numbers will look very similar as morbid as it all sounds. Most businesses are expecting us to come out the current lockdown after the May bank holiday, which I'm guessing has come from Deloitte.

 

From what I'm reading the UK is leading the way in efforts for a reliable antibody test and also in producing a vaccine. Now I'm sure a lot of it a co-global effort, it's just fortunate major operations are in the UK. But it does sound a lot like if there is going to be a way out of this, then a lot of it will come from the UK.

Our total numbers will not look very similar. With some of the care home deaths added in today, we now have more deaths than Spain and are only just behind Italy. The UK figure will be above Italy's very soon. The fact that we were two to three weeks behind Italy should have been to our advantage leading to a lower death toll. That isn't going to be the case.

Our total numbers will not look very similar. With some of the care home deaths added in today, we now have more deaths than Spain and are only just behind Italy. The UK figure will be above Italy's very soon. The fact that we were two to three weeks behind Italy should have been to our advantage leading to a lower death toll. That isn't going to be the case.

 

Also Italy's ICUs were hugely overwhelmed with a much more intense peak in cases due to the initial spread being in a small area.

 

The UK healthcare system was (partly through luck - the spread was over a wider area, and partly to the credit of the government and others) not overstretched at any point, which makes the relatively similar death toll somewhat surprising.

Also Italy's ICUs were hugely overwhelmed with a much more intense peak in cases due to the initial spread being in a small area.

 

The UK healthcare system was (partly through luck - the spread was over a wider area, and partly to the credit of the government and others) not overstretched at any point, which makes the relatively similar death toll somewhat surprising.

One thing the government got right was that they freed up a lot of beds in hospitals. Unfortunately, I suspect the massive reduction in the number of people going to their GP or to A&E is partly an unforeseen consequence of that move. I don't blame the government for that but it's something to be borne in mind the next time something like this happens.

Our total numbers will not look very similar. With some of the care home deaths added in today, we now have more deaths than Spain and are only just behind Italy. The UK figure will be above Italy's very soon. The fact that we were two to three weeks behind Italy should have been to our advantage leading to a lower death toll. That isn't going to be the case.

 

Disagree. The graphs are very similar, we will end up on the same level as Spain and Italy, at least for this first peak. The only question now is the "true" statistics, as the UK care home deaths are only counting people like in hospitals, who died after being tested. But I think that's the same for most of the countries.