I think to an extent a relevant point would be what the starting point for this was.

 

In my opinion there's a difference between:

• The BBC wants to have an artist picking their favourite R&B songs, who will we choose? How about Cheryl?, and
• The BBC wants to give Cheryl a show, wonder what she'll pick? Oh, she wants to do her favourite R&B songs, sure, fine.

I also think there's an issue if this is the only R&B songs show in the series because then that is letting a white person be the sole face of the genre which, I guess I'm just a bit uncomfortable with. I think because Cheryl doesn't even make R&B music herself it just seems a bit weird.

Racism is suggesting that a person cannot host a certain radio show just because of their skin color.

 

I am shocked to see a post like this, on this forum, in 2021. Reversed racism is NOT a thing, it doesn't excist and will never excist. People, rightly so, complaining about Cheryl doing this show is not racism and anyone who even thinks this clearly has not got a clue what racism is.

 

It's not surprising this got so much backlash, besides the point of Cheryl being a white woman, she is also not an R&B artist? I know she loves the genre like many of us do, but she is known as a pop singer so it seems such a strange move. Especially considering there are so many talented R&B singers in the UK who have knowledge about the genre and deserve the spotlight. I see comments in here like "but we have so many black or poc singers in the UK who have been successful', it's true, but how many got a long career? Gabrielle and Beverley Knight are amongst the best vocalists the country has but are they at the same level as their white counterparts? Don't think so. Look at how Alexandra Burke, Jamelia, Alesha Dixon all got treated, one successful era and it was mostly over (and let me not start on the awful media coverage they got). Look at Leona. Look at Laura Mvula. Look at Raye. Look at Melanie B and Keisha. I could go on and on. I adore Cheryl and will always be a fan of her, but this move just doesn't sit right with me.

I agree with the part in bold but I do think it misses the point. It’s not that Cheryl is talking about R&B or listening to the music that’s the issue, of course she should be free to talk about her favourite songs or listen to whatever she pleases… the issue is that the BBC have chosen her as the person most suitable to be paid to do it on a R&B show. She’s not self funding as far as I’m aware, she’s being employed to do it.

I wasn't aware that she was paid to do it. That puts it into more perspective for me and definitely shows a lack of awareness on BBC's part.

Gabrielle and Beverley Knight are amongst the best vocalists the country has but are they at the same level as their white counterparts? Don't think so. Look at how Alexandra Burke, Jamelia, Alesha Dixon all got treated, one successful era and it was mostly over (and let me not start on the awful media coverage they got). Look at Leona. Look at Laura Mvula. Look at Raye. Look at Melanie B and Keisha. I could go on and on.

Their current commercial performance has nothing to do with their race / skin color. Black female artists experience lack of success as their career progresses just like their White peers: Pixie Lott, Jessie J, Duffy, Rachel Stevens, Lily Allen, Natasha Bedingfield, Eliza Doolittle, Foxes, Mollie King, Amelia Lily, Little Boots, Kate Nash, Billie Piper, Diana Vickers, Betsy & Jem are just a few examples.

Edited September 4, 20213 yr by Voodoo

Twitter is so toxic it’s unreal, yes maybe Cheryl wasn’t the best choice for the podcast, but for everyone to jump in and say she shouldn’t be doing it because she is racist (especially MNEK) is gross.

Their current commercial performance has nothing to do with their race / skin color. Black female artists experience lack of success as their career progresses just like their White peers: Pixie Lott, Jessie J, Duffy, Rachel Stevens, Lily Allen, Natasha Bedingfield, Eliza Doolittle, Foxes, Mollie King, Amelia Lily, Little Boots, Kate Nash, Billie Piper, Diana Vickers, Betsy & Jem are just a few examples.

 

Have you not heard Alexandra Burke's story last year? Or Misha B's? Or Keisha's? Or even Little Mix' Leigh-Anne. You honestly cannot compare someone like Beverley to a household name like Lily Allen or someone like Billie Piper who herself decided to quiet music. Of course I am not saying Beverley, once again using her as an example but I could name someone else as well, should still be having #1 singles because I know the industry changes every year, but the fact she has never hit the spot like most of those artists you mentioned is just telling. You really don't understand or get this issue if you make statement like this.

 

Twitter is so toxic it’s unreal, yes maybe Cheryl wasn’t the best choice for the podcast, but for everyone to jump in and say she shouldn’t be doing it because she is racist (especially MNEK) is gross.

I agree. And using the toilet incident from decades ago to imply Cheryl is racist is not only an unwarranted accusation but has got nothing to do with lack of black artists being represented in the industry. It feels like they're stirring the pot for the sake of it

I am shocked to see a post like this, on this forum, in 2021. Reversed racism is NOT a thing, it doesn't excist and will never excist. People, rightly so, complaining about Cheryl doing this show is not racism and anyone who even thinks this clearly has not got a clue what racism is.

 

It's not surprising this got so much backlash, besides the point of Cheryl being a white woman, she is also not an R&B artist? I know she loves the genre like many of us do, but she is known as a pop singer so it seems such a strange move. Especially considering there are so many talented R&B singers in the UK who have knowledge about the genre and deserve the spotlight. I see comments in here like "but we have so many black or poc singers in the UK who have been successful', it's true, but how many got a long career? Gabrielle and Beverley Knight are amongst the best vocalists the country has but are they at the same level as their white counterparts? Don't think so. Look at how Alexandra Burke, Jamelia, Alesha Dixon all got treated, one successful era and it was mostly over (and let me not start on the awful media coverage they got). Look at Leona. Look at Laura Mvula. Look at Raye. Look at Melanie B and Keisha. I could go on and on. I adore Cheryl and will always be a fan of her, but this move just doesn't sit right with me.

 

 

While I totally agree with your point re the treatment of black women in the industry has been shocking and 100% racist, the being told to bleach skin, straighten hair, not wear afro, conform to an image etc... I don't think that saying the short careers of the above female artists you mentioned is a reflection on racism of the British public as a whole (as that is what is being said by that statement).

 

Gabrielle as you mentioned had / has a fabulous career which matches up to and surpasses many of her white counterparts and longevity which again surpasses many of her counterparts of any colour. Beverley Knight is another example of having a very long career in the music and theatre industry and getting major critical praise way above that of many of her counterparts.

 

Acts like Alesha, Alexandra, Jamelia etc fit in with the stories of many white female artists such as Rachel Stevens, Katy B, Pixie Lott, Jessie J, Victoria Beckham, Nicola Roberts, Nadine Coyle, in fact even to an extent Cheryl Cole herself who are pop stars some very talented some more limited but that are subject to a fickle industry where acts generally have a short shelf life.

While I totally agree with your point re the treatment of black women in the industry has been shocking and 100% racist, the being told to bleach skin, straighten hair, not wear afro, conform to an image etc... I don't think that saying the short careers of the above female artists you mentioned is a reflection on racism of the British public as a whole (as that is what is being said by that statement).

 

Gabrielle as you mentioned had / has a fabulous career which matches up to and surpasses many of her white counterparts and longevity which again surpasses many of her counterparts of any colour. Beverley Knight is another example of having a very long career in the music and theatre industry and getting major critical praise way above that of many of her counterparts.

 

Acts like Alesha, Alexandra, Jamelia etc fit in with the stories of many white female artists such as Rachel Stevens, Katy B, Pixie Lott, Jessie J, Victoria Beckham, Nicola Roberts, Nadine Coyle, in fact even to an extent Cheryl Cole herself who are pop stars some very talented some more limited but that are subject to a fickle industry where acts generally have a short shelf life.

 

Alexandra was treated abysmally by the media as was Jamelia particularly during her stint on Loose Women, None of the girls you mentioned were subject to the same level of prejudice as Alexandra etc which hindered their careers. You agree with the first point yet take umbridge with the latter, when the two are really not mutually exclusive.

Alexandra was treated abysmally by the media as was Jamelia particularly during her stint on Loose Women, None of the girls you mentioned were subject to the same level of prejudice as Alexandra etc which hindered their careers. You agree with the first point yet take umbridge with the latter, when the two are really not mutually exclusive.

 

Thank you!

 

I always find it very interesting when people try to deny these things from happening, when the people themselves have said it time and time again (Misha, Alex etc.). Surely they would know the best, right? Besides the fact it has always been incredibly obvious. You just have to look at the solo careers of the Spice Girls as a small example. Who has had the least success music wise? Melanie B by a long shot and definitely not because she was the one with the least talent or material.

You just have to look at the solo careers of the Spice Girls as a small example. Who has had the least success music wise? Melanie B by a long shot and definitely not because she was the one with the least talent or material.

It could be argued that Victoria had the least success music wise.

Edited September 5, 20213 yr by Voodoo

I would also argue that Victoria and Geri both got treated far harshly by the press than Mel B did. Rachel Steven’s got a lot of flack for being “talentless.” Jesy definitely got the harshest treatment in Little Mix press wise.

I would also argue that Victoria and Geri both got treated far harshly by the press than Mel B did. Rachel Steven’s got a lot of flack for being “talentless.” Jesy definitely got the harshest treatment in Little Mix press wise.

 

You’re really, really missing the point though. No one is saying white pop star women can’t find hardships by the press, of course they can, but they are not automatically given a hard time or facing uphill battles because of their skin. It honestly may be worthwhile reading up on the likes of Alexandra, Keisha or other women in the industry’s experiences instead of just offering a ‘devils advocate’ point of view with white examples. It’s just unecessary.

You’re really, really missing the point though.

You keep trying to force your opinion on others. We are allowed to agree to disagree, aren't we?

You keep trying to force your opinion on others. We are allowed to agree to disagree, aren't we?

Not when you don't even bother to understand the original posters point or attempt to educate yourself. Playing devil's advocate to defend white women and pretend subconscious and systematic racism isn't a huge problem in the UK is really unnecessary. No one's being rude, but some people in here sure seem to love to play victim and get more offended at the idea of someone being accused of racism than actual racism itself.

You keep trying to force your opinion on others. We are allowed to agree to disagree, aren't we?

 

 

Systemic racism is something that we should all be more educated on, myself included - I’m not trying to force my opinion on anybody but I’m trying to explain why what’s being posted is ignorant whether or not it’s intended to be. I’m sorry if that id coming across in the wrong way.

I would also argue that Victoria and Geri both got treated far harshly by the press than Mel B did. Rachel Steven’s got a lot of flack for being “talentless.” Jesy definitely got the harshest treatment in Little Mix press wise.

 

Whilst all true, by constantly bringing these examples into the discussion, you’re making light of the issue of systemic racism in the UK and playing it down, whether you mean to or not.

 

You keep trying to force your opinion on others. We are allowed to agree to disagree, aren't we?

 

I think you out of everyone has been posting the most immature responses in here. Yes, you can have a different opinion but pretending systemic racism isn’t a big deal is going to lead to people challenging you and you need to be able to deal with that.

it is a tricky subject matter TBH as I don't see the relevance of her racial abuse needing to be brought up as in my eyes - she was a child at the time and made a very stupid mistake, one that has stayed with her her entire career. She has been accountable for it and obviously wants to put the incident to rest, however, I'm a white male... I don't know the impact of her actions would have on someone of colour... and I would like to be educated in why her actions (nearly 20 years ago) should be the reason for her not to host a show.

 

Do I think Cheryl should host a show on R&B music? I don't really know... obviously she's a popstar but there's no denying she's not a huge fan of her own music and a lot of her music certainly has R&B tinges to it, and although Will is known for making dance music, he is also known for making R&B music and there's no denying she's a huge fan of it. So because she's never released any R&B music means she's not allowed to be a figurehead for R&B tracks she likes? That narrative makes little sense...

it is a tricky subject matter TBH as I don't see the relevance of her racial abuse needing to be brought up as in my eyes - she was a child at the time and made a very stupid mistake, one that has stayed with her her entire career. She has been accountable for it and obviously wants to put the incident to rest, however, I'm a white male... I don't know the impact of her actions would have on someone of colour... and I would like to be educated in why her actions (nearly 20 years ago) should be the reason for her not to host a show.

 

Do I think Cheryl should host a show on R&B music? I don't really know... obviously she's a popstar but there's no denying she's not a huge fan of her own music and a lot of her music certainly has R&B tinges to it, and although Will is known for making dance music, he is also known for making R&B music and there's no denying she's a huge fan of it. So because she's never released any R&B music means she's not allowed to be a figurehead for R&B tracks she likes? That narrative makes little sense...

 

I love Cheryl so this is not hate, but people are going to bring the assault charge up because it emphasises how ridiculous the system is. She is absolutely entitled to move on, but people have a right to be mad that someone (and let’s remember she was an adult, not a child) who assaulted a black woman is then able to front a podcast on R&B music when there are more appropriate artists who could do so, on the BBC of all platforms. As I mentioned before they have a remit to promote diversity and representation as much as possible which is definitely not the case here.

 

 

The narrative you’ve mentioned at the bottom does indeed make little sense, but it’s not the point most people are trying to make.

I love Cheryl so this is not hate, but people are going to bring the assault charge up because it emphasises how ridiculous the system is. She is absolutely entitled to move on, but people have a right to be mad that someone (and let’s remember she was an adult, not a child) who assaulted a black woman is then able to front a podcast on R&B music when there are more appropriate artists who could do so, on the BBC of all platforms. As I mentioned before they have a remit to promote diversity and representation as much as possible which is definitely not the case here.

The narrative you’ve mentioned at the bottom does indeed make little sense, but it’s not the point most people are trying to make.

 

Thank you 🥰 As a POC, I appreciate that.