Tbf you could say Janet had 22 minor top 40 hits to reach 3.1 million if you take away that 700k its only 2.4million sales across 21 songs is that really that huge 🤷‍♂️

3 minutes ago, T Boy said:

You have to laugh at anyone in the ‘biggest artist not to have a no.1’ thread who said Janet just isn’t that big.

That is just one decades worth of her sales.

She was obviously very successful and more so than people give her credit for, however the average for her single sales is 114,000 copies a single after taking out that big hit in the post so a rather average seller overall on the singles market. She will obviously be a victim of lower sales in the earlier 90s part of the decade to be fair. Tina Tuner and Bon Jovi for instance who have charted lower on this rating did have the album sales and the stadiums to back up her being much bigger than Jacket Jackson, which was the point being made about them being "bigger stars."

Great to see The Prodigy in the top 20. 'Voodoo People' is my favourite song of theirs too!

Not to rile the debate but if you add 80s and 90s singles sales together for the acts mentioned you get

Janet- 4.085m

Tina- 3.023m

Bon Jovi- 2.948 m

55 minutes ago, 777666jason said:

Tbf you could say Janet had 22 minor top 40 hits to reach 3.1 million if you take away that 700k its only 2.4million sales across 21 songs is that really that huge 🤷‍♂️

Not all of those hits were minor and even so, it’s sustained success across the decade. Only 18 artists sold more singles throughout the decade. I mean, where is your bar for ‘huge’?

48 minutes ago, Spiceboy said:

Or you could just not have a dig at people, really what is the need? 🤷

She was obviously very successful and more so than people give her credit for, however the average for her single sales is 114,000 copies a single after taking out that big hit in the post so a rather average seller overall on the singles market. She will obviously be a victim of lower sales in the earlier 90s part of the decade to be fair. Tina Tuner and Bon Jovi for instance who have charted lower on this rating did have the album sales and the stadiums to back up her being much bigger than Jacket Jackson, which was the point being made about them being "bigger stars."

I think you’ve taken what I said a little too personally. On brand for you of course but, once again, you have to make at outright personal dig at me.

11 minutes ago, Gezza said:

Not to rile the debate but if you add 80s and 90s singles sales together for the acts mentioned you get

Janet- 4.085m

Tina- 3.023m

Bon Jovi- 2.948 m

Fair point but again

Bon Jovi – 7.2 million albums – Wembley Stadium (90,000)

Tina Turner – 7 million albums – Largest venue Wembley Stadium (90,000)

Janet Jackson – 2.3 million albums – O2 / Manchester Arena (20,000)

You can see why people were saying Bon Jovi and Tina Turner were a lot bigger than Janet Jackson over here.

1 minute ago, T Boy said:

Not all of those hits were minor and even so, it’s sustained success across the decade. Only 18 artists sold more singles throughout the decade. I mean, where is your bar for ‘huge’?

If thats true then it makes the ones that are even more minor so are you saying she was lucky to release when she did to get as many top 40s as the bar was so low

Does a person selling a couple million of 1 single then nothing the rest of their career make them huge ?

4 minutes ago, 777666jason said:

If thats true then it makes the ones that are even more minor so are you saying she was lucky to release when she did to get as many top 40s as the bar was so low

Does a person selling a couple million of 1 single then nothing the rest of their career make them huge ?

I’m not sure you understood my response because I’m having trouble understanding yours.

Janet sold over 3 million singles in the 90s. Only 18 other acts managed that. That is sustained success over a 10 year period. She also broke out in the mid 80s and could still hit the top 40 up to the mid 2000s. She is unquestionably a big artist, you can’t really frame it any other way? She never got that no.1 single but she was a constant chart force. If anything Together Again was unlucky in that it was released in a period where so many songs were selling in high amounts. It didn’t even go top 3 but outsold so many songs that did.

20 minutes ago, T Boy said:

I think you’ve taken what I said a little too personally. On brand for you of course but, once again, you have to make at outright personal dig at me.

I apologise for upset. I do try to treat everyone the same and I would have made the exact same comment to anyone else but, I do appreciate with our history how it comes across. Best wishes.

19 minutes ago, Spiceboy said:

Fair point but again

Bon Jovi – 7.2 million albums – Wembley Stadium (90,000)

Tina Turner – 7 million albums – Largest venue Wembley Stadium (90,000)

Janet Jackson – 2.3 million albums – O2 / Manchester Arena (20,000)

You can see why people were saying Bon Jovi and Tina Turner were a lot bigger than Janet Jackson over here.

i agree it depends on how you are measuring that success. I would argue that given the criteria of that thread i.e that having a No 1 should be something that a "big act" has or at least be capable of, then it is the ability of the act to sell singles in the UK that count? for the record I don't mind any of the acts so this isn't a bias on my part

1 minute ago, Gezza said:

i agree it depends on how you are measuring that success. I would argue that given the criteria of that thread i.e that having a No 1 should be something that a "big act" has or at least be capable of, then it is the ability of the act to sell singles in the UK that count? for the record I don't mind any of the acts so this isn't a bias on my part

I don't dispute that point either, I am surprised she hasn't had one. All I was commenting on was that people were saying she wasn't as big of an act as Tina Turner and Bon Jovi in the UK, I'd argue that their overall sales with both albums and singles, then also concert tickets sold support the point that those people were making.

Bon Jovi - approx 10.1 million records in the UK

Tina Turner - approx 10 million records in the UK

Janet Jackson - approx 6.4 million records in the UK

I also like all three acts however I'll admit I am biased towards Tina, she is one of my favourite artists. 🤭

12 minutes ago, T Boy said:

I’m not sure you understood my response because I’m having trouble understanding yours.

Janet sold over 3 million singles in the 90s. Only 18 other acts managed that. That is sustained success over a 10 year period. She also broke out in the mid 80s and could still hit the top 40 up to the mid 2000s. She is unquestionably a big artist, you can’t really frame it any other way? She never got that no.1 single but she was a constant chart force. If anything Together Again was unlucky in that it was released in a period where so many songs were selling in high amounts. It didn’t even go top 3 but outsold so many songs that did.

21 top 40s equally 2.4m is not sustained success its luck

You asked what is success i gave an example

If artist A sells 2m of 1 song then never sells a single copy of another song does that make them huge ?

6 minutes ago, 777666jason said:

21 top 40s equally 2.4m is not sustained success its luck

You asked what is success i gave an example

If artist A sells 2m of 1 song then never sells a single copy of another song does that make them huge ?

Now I'm not following this!

in answer to your first point- it's very difficult to get "lucky" 21 times- no?

on your second point a 90s example would be Teletubbies- sold a million of one song and nothing else. I wouldn't say they were a huge umusical act!

Sorry If I've misunderstood.

To be fair, I do think you’re introducing counter arguments at tangents here. I think all T Boy is saying is that Janet sold a lot and is a deserved candidate for an act that should have had a number one single and that he’d class her as a huge artist.

1 minute ago, dandy* said:

To be fair, I do think you’re introducing counter arguments at tangents here. I think all T Boy is saying is that Janet sold a lot and is a deserved candidate for an act that should have had a number one single and that he’d class her as a huge artist.

Yeah, that's a bit unfair. He's of course entitled to say that he thinks her to be huge but then people are allowed to rebuttal with why they disagree.

For the record I think she was certainly a big act too, but I wouldn't put her in the legendary status of Tina, Bon Jovi, Madonna, Michael Jackson because she doesn't have those big memorable songs (in my opinion obviously others disagree) that those acts do, nor does she has the massive million selling album(s) that all of those act achieved nor was she a huge touring force selling out stadiums. I don't personally think she has that iconic single that is played a lot still today or a karaoke favourite ala Simply the best, Living on a prayer, Man... I feel like a woman etc. That's the point being made as to why some people are not so shocked that she hasn't had a solo #1.

Edited Saturday at 14:082 days by Spiceboy

10 minutes ago, Spiceboy said:

I don't dispute that point either, I am surprised she hasn't had one. All I was commenting on was that people were saying she wasn't as big of an act as Tina Turner and Bon Jovi in the UK, I'd argue that their overall sales with both albums and singles, then also concert tickets sold support the point that those people were making.

Bon Jovi - approx 10.1 million records in the UK

Tina Turner - approx 10 million records in the UK

Janet Jackson - approx 6.4 million records in the UK

I also like all three acts however I'll admit I am biased towards Tina, she is one of my favourite artists. 🤭

Ah I didn't follow that thread so wasn't aware of how it developed. I would still say it's a slightly erroneous comparison. Loads of acts can sell out a concert tour and maybe sell albums but wouldn't have a hope of topping the singles chart as they are different (although related) fields. Looking at list of 90s million selling albums for acts with comparatively poor singles sales (or were certainly never in danger of getting a No 1 single in the decade) you have the likes of Alanis Morissette, R.E.M. Lighthouse Family, Texas, Paul Weller, Genesis, crowded house etc would indicate (to me) that the two formats are not a measure of success in the other format.

13 minutes ago, dandy* said:

To be fair, I do think you’re introducing counter arguments at tangents here. I think all T Boy is saying is that Janet sold a lot and is a deserved candidate for an act that should have had a number one single and that he’d class her as a huge artist.

How he asked whats success i gave an alternative example of what is success if answering his question is going of at a tangent why did he ask in the first place ?

1 minute ago, Spiceboy said:

Yeah, that's a bit unfair. He's of course entitled to say that he thinks her to be huge but then people are allowed to rebuttal with why they disagree.

Totally!

2 minutes ago, 777666jason said:

How he asked whats success i gave an alternative example of what is success if answering his question is going of at a tangent why did he ask in the first place ?

Did you? I genuinely can’t find it, sorry if I’m being dumb here!

Anyway, it doesn’t matter much. I think I was just in the same boat as Gezza in his post, I can’t follow the logic on this one - sorry!

4 minutes ago, dandy* said:

Totally!

Did you? I genuinely can’t find it, sorry if I’m being dumb here!

I think I’m in the same boat as Gezza on his post, I can’t follow the logic on this one, sorry!

36 minutes ago, 777666jason said:

If artist A sells 2m of 1 song then never sells a single copy of another song does that make them huge ?

Jason's point was simply that, Janet's single sales average out at 114,000 copies per single over 21 singles after you take away the 700k single in the post above. It doesn't necessarily make them a huge act, rather a consistent one perhaps. For many posters in that thread, her songs don't stand the test of time against other artists who didn't achieve a #1 single. It is all of course personal preference.

He them made the point that if someone sells 2 million of 1 single and makes the top 20 best selling singles acts of the 90s, despite not selling anything after, does that make them a huge singles act? Lou Bega comes to mind for instance here.

I will add that this all started because he made a point of saying that people who had a different opinion about her success should be "laughed at", and leave it at that. This is my final post.

Edited Saturday at 14:332 days by Spiceboy

Ah okay - I follow that more now, thanks.