Now THIS I can agree with.

 

If the government is going to be paying them, they could at least give something back. In a sense, they'd be employed by the government, but there wouldn't be anymore money spent than is currently. It's a win-win surely?

 

It would also help make these people more employable, giving them experience, as opposed to them falling behind the active workforce even further with massive gaps on their CVs.

If they're employed by the government they should be paid a proper wage. If there is work to be done - and there is - people should be entitled to be paid a decent wage to do that work.

If they're employed by the government they should be paid a proper wage. If there is work to be done - and there is - people should be entitled to be paid a decent wage to do that work.

That's what I was gonna say, I only found a job a couple of weeks ago after being on the dole since October and I did plenty of productive things to help with my future plans before anyone says anything. :rolleyes: So yeah if you're gonna make them to do community work then we'll need to start being unemployed people more than £50 a week which probably couldn't be done, at least when you do New Deal you get an extra £15 which thankfully I just managed to avoid having to do!

Here's my 2 cents worth...

 

The 50% tax rate for top earners is about the only thing that I agree with in this budget, it should've been done years ago, and frankly, I'd've gone a LOT further and put income tax on middle earners up by 1p or 2p also, so that the poorest in the country (ie, those earning less than 30k, which is the overwhelming majority) could enjoy some tax relief at least for one year to try and get them through the worst of it... The rich have a moral obligation to pay a higher rate in taxes, certainly higher than those earning barely 10% of what these people earn, and it is the case that the majority in this country DO have to struggle on £15k or LESS per year.... So, if we have to "force" someone to pay for the mistakes actually MADE by rich, greedy white men with blue eyes (to borrow from Brazilian President Lula :lol: ), then it should be these self-same rich people who have, for years, enjoyed a cushy lifestyle off the backs and the labour of the ordinary working classes in this country.... NOT the "politics of envy", Suedehead is spot on, it is the politics of justice and fairness, as he said.... Frankly, I dont give a sh!t if these c/unts in Mayfair, Chelsea, Kensington or Richmond cant afford their third homes, third Jags or have to send their kids to a slightly less expensive school (or, heck, even a STATE school, perish the thought..), or, god forbid, they cant afford an Au Pair or Nanny and actually, gasp, have to raise their kid themselves..... :rolleyes:

 

The actions of the rich and shameless are putting hundreds of thousands out of work, they are costing every man, woman and child the equivalent of £23,000 in debt.. Like it or not, those in the "meedjahhhh" also have an obligation because they basically lied to us, manipulated the truth, kissed the arse on Nu Labor and the City, for this supposed "10 years of growth" which was clearly totally illusory, and never actually existed anywhere but on a computer as a load of numbers which were ultimately meaningless in the long-run... Broon did not leave anything for a "rainy day", he has totally betrayed the majority of the working classes in this country by kissing the arses of the likes of Fred the Shred, Applegarth, the City and the Americans instead of putting the interests of the ordinary worker first and foremost (which should be the job of any truly Democratic Govt who claims to represent the people...). The "easy credit", "me, me, me", "loadsamoney" culture has destroyed this country, and it is unfettered Capitalism without any regards for the consequences that has been the cause of it all, even Adam Smith, the architect of modern neo-liberalist capitalism, never EVER agreed that there should be no limits at all, he believed that there should be a philosophy and a moral and ethical aspect to Capitalism, he would have been totally and diametrically opposed to the likes of Goodwin and the policies of Thatcher, Major, Brown, et al....

 

Where I agree with Craig is when he talks about the Bureaucracy that exists in the NHS and other organisations - it's costing the taxpayer BILLIONS every year, and yet more billions gets lost in a bureaucratic black hole in the NHS every year, the absolute scandal of the NHS IT system which has cost the taxpayer over £40bn and still doesn't work is frankly disgusting; the "war on terror" is a joke, Iraq was a huge mistake, and all we succeeded in doing in Afghanistan was moving the Taliban from Afghanistan (a country practically in the stone-age which presented absolutely no credible threat to the West at all..) to just toally p***ing off everyone in the region and bolstering support for Bin Laden and the Taliban to the extent that the Taliban is now within 70 miles of taking Islamabad and maybe even Pakistan (er, CONSIDERABLY more developed than Afghanistan with the added "benefit" of having loads of fukkin' NUKES) itself in the next 5-10 years. Stand up job Tone and Dubya, brilliant tactical strategy I must say, Sun Tzu, Ghengis Khan and Alexander's got nothing on you guys.... <_< Anyway, back on topic - other areas where I agree with Craig is that we really now have to stop the "something for nothing" culture that exists in this country... It surely cannot be correct that there are layabouts on the dole who have never worked a day in their lives, breed like rabbits and then bleed us dry to the tune of 20-30k every year in various benefits.. Surely as big a bunch of leeches than the likes of Goodwin and the City, these people are a fukkin' disgrace who shame the Working Classes, and have contributed to the destruction of our country and our culture surely as much as Thatcher or Blair, our whole "dumbed down", "celeb", anti-intellectual culture which worships mediocrity such as Jade Goody or Jordan is another huge symptom of the disease that infects Britain... It breeds the sort of Apathy that has contributed to the situation we now find ourselves in as well I feel, God, could you just imagine what our country would be like if the likes of Emeline Pankhurst (leader of the Suffragettes), The Levellers, The Chartists or other groups who fought for justice, equality and freedom just sat on their arses and had an attitude of "meh, cant be bothered to have an opinion or a thought..." Someone once said, that a people gets the Govt it deserves... Well, fukk me, what does that say about the people of Britain in 2009 then if we actually deserve Nu Labor...... <_< As for Trident, and ID cards - SCRAP EM...... Nobody FUKKIN' WANTS ID CARDS, and god knows we already possess enough nukes to flatten the world about 5 times over..... Hmm, let's see, how many BILLIONS is that gonna save then, just by cutting those two idiotic programs that NO BUGGER WANTS...... <_< <_< <_<

 

As for Darling himself.... Is this guy just an idiot...? Just how the fukk does he propose that UK can go from a -3.5% contraction in growth to a +3.5% rate of growth in TWO BLOODY YEARS...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What drugs is he on....? To achieve this, there has to be a spike of 7% in real terms to get us from a negative to a positive.... Uhh, we're NOT China.... Even the IMF is telling Darling to get a grip on realilty..... Useless, hopeless and ridiculous..... Vince Cable is absolutely spot on to ridicule Darling's Walter Mitty-esque projections.... Who the fukk is actually running this country, I really have to wonder..... IMO, the absolute best thing that could come out of the next General Election is a hung Parliament... No, seriously, think about it..... A hung Parliament would actually force a change to occur in this country, a change at system level, a change in our whole political system, which is surely what's needed... As far as I'm concerned, the whole problem has been the dominance of either Labour or Tory, Thatcherism was a cancer, and now Blair/Brownism has proven itself just as corrosive, if not more so..... Thatcherism caused Black Wednesday, a run on the pound and financial chaos in the early 90s, Brownism/Blairism and kissing the arse of America has cause a disaster so deep that it'll be felt for a generation to come.... To borrow from Barack Obama - ironically - we NEED CHANGE..... But it's not merely a change in leadership UK needs, it's an overhaul of our very political/economic/cultural system itself, it needs to be "governance by consent" and not what we have presently which is more like "do as we say, not as we do".... When the French get p!ssed off, they take to the streets, they protest, they blockade and cause as much disruption as possible until the Govt either tones down or acquiesces to the will of the PEOPLE....... Yes, we NEED to be more like the French in that respect, absolutely.... And I am PROUD to say that I was on the G20 protests a few weeks back, and I feel now that with the full revelations of just how fukked we actually are, we need MORE protests, we need to put MORE pressure on the Govt and politicians in general.....

 

THE ONLY SOLUTION IS REVOLUTION my friends....... But that does not necessarily mean violence or riots, Revolutions comes in MANY forms, what Ghandi did in India was a revolution as much as what Castro did in Cuba.. Think about it......

 

Whew, sorry about the big rant, but I really needed to get that out...... :lol:

I love it how you go from talking about the turmoil in Afghanistan/Pakistan to celebrity culture in a few lines :heehee:

 

I dunno what to say, i don't have as strong feelings as Grimley :lol:. I do think that poverty is not a huge problem in this country, but more so than the rest of Europe, i also think that unlike the article that Tyron posted, which although was pretty depressing, it is definately possible to pull your kids out of poverty. British media really has changed the way those in poverty are perceived, and made it more difficult to escape, however.

 

Could someone explain what a Hung Parliament is? :S

A hung parliament is one where no one party wins an overall majority of seats.

I love it how you go from talking about the turmoil in Afghanistan/Pakistan to celebrity culture in a few lines :heehee:

 

Well, I feel that WE are responsible in a lot of ways for Pakistan's current problems tbh.... We chucked the Taliban out of Kabul and just spread the problem to other areas of the region... The likes of the Taliban and Al Qaeda were CONTAINED in Afghanistan, they weren't actually going anywhere..... Same for Saddam, who was also CONTAINED, and presented no credible threat to the West, WMDs were a total fukking LIE, and the invasion achieved nothing but to cause greater unrest and even greater Anti-Western sentiments amongst those in the Middle East and the Islamic world as a whole.... Which then led in turn to what happened on July 7th 2005... I hold Tony B-Liar directly responsible for creating the mood and conditions for the terror attacks in UK to occur.... As far as I'm concerned both he and Broon are fukkin' War Criminals who should be swinging on a gallows along with Saddam..... <_< I dont approve of the Death Penalty, but frankly, I'm willing to make an exception for war criminals, greedy bankers and lying, corrupt politicians..... -_-

If they're employed by the government they should be paid a proper wage. If there is work to be done - and there is - people should be entitled to be paid a decent wage to do that work.

 

There's no reason why there wouldn't be. Aside from the stories you find in the media of families bringing in between 20-30k a year on benefits, you could always tailor the hours of work per week to ensure that the benefits equal a reasonable "hourly rate".

I just don't see why now more than ever, the government should be expected to hand money out for nothing to a lot of people who are fit and available to carry out some community work.

I just don't see why now more than ever, the government should be expected to hand money out for nothing to a lot of people who are fit and available to carry out some community work.

 

Agreed... And it's not as if Community Work doesn't need doing... It would actually give the long-term unemployed or never-had-a-job-in-their-lives lot some self respect also, they'd be contributing something to society while at the same time helping the community at large.... And perhaps if some of these bloody chavs DID do something to help their communities and the people living in them and actually became a part of something, they'd perhaps be a bit less inclined to want to do things to harm or disrupt their community....

 

Yes, I know this sounds a bit socialist, but fukk it, if you ask me, we need a bit of Socialism right now, unfettered, uncaring, Free Market Capitalism sure hasn't done much for us has it...? Well, except get us all in a huge amount of DEBT...... <_<

 

i agree with being paid for community work.... a proper job with proper wages... michael caine was moaning about the 50% tax rate..... "im 76, i get up at 6 am to support the 3.5 million layabouts on benefits" .... ok not everyone on benefits is a work shy layabout, but broadly speaking he has a valid point.

i agree with being paid for community work.... a proper job with proper wages... michael caine was moaning about the 50% tax rate..... "im 76, i get up at 6 am to support the 3.5 million layabouts on benefits" .... ok not everyone on benefits is a work shy layabout, but broadly speaking he has a valid point.

And plenty of people get up at 6 am and make a lot less money in their whole working life than Caine gets for one film. He has made a huge amount of money by pretending to be someone else and speaking lines someone has written for him. The fact that he is still working at 76 is his choice, not a financial necessity.

And plenty of people get up at 6 am and make a lot less money in their whole working life than Caine gets for one film. He has made a huge amount of money by pretending to be someone else and speaking lines someone has written for him. The fact that he is still working at 76 is his choice, not a financial necessity.

 

Spot on... Caine should either retire (and thus avoid the 50% tax rate) or shut the fukk up and pay up..... He doesn't seem to actually appreciate the fact that this country is in un utter shambles because of rich, greedy b/astards like him who fukked up the banking/financial system which the ORDINARY taxpayer who earns a damn sight less than he does now has to prop up through THEIR taxes..... <_<

 

Caine - fukk off and die.....

Agreed... And it's not as if Community Work doesn't need doing... It would actually give the long-term unemployed or never-had-a-job-in-their-lives lot some self respect also, they'd be contributing something to society while at the same time helping the community at large.... And perhaps if some of these bloody chavs DID do something to help their communities and the people living in them and actually became a part of something, they'd perhaps be a bit less inclined to want to do things to harm or disrupt their community....

 

Yes, I know this sounds a bit socialist, but fukk it, if you ask me, we need a bit of Socialism right now, unfettered, uncaring, Free Market Capitalism sure hasn't done much for us has it...? Well, except get us all in a huge amount of DEBT...... <_<

 

To be honest I'd say it fits in with Capitalism aswell. The idea of handing benefits out and getting nothing in return has always struck me as being a very un-Capitalist ideal.

 

I don't see how you can blame Michael Caine for the banking shambles, he is just a working class guy that made good. Are you suggesting no one should aspire to better themselves? If we all just took the easy route we would all just sit around all day and watch TV and claim benefits. His point is valid if you ask me, and not much different to the majority views on here about the millions who take and contribute nothing to society. Like them or hate them the rich mob do pay taxes. However by putting them up to 50% or higher usually results in less tax being collected, as they employ clever tax accountants to find ways round it. There are only about 300,000 people who earn over £150k in the UK and the most it will collect is £7b at best, and only if they all pay. The likelyhood is it will only bring in about £2b by the ones who accept they should pay more, the rest will avoid it by whatever means they can. £2b ain't gonna make a dent on the debt for this year or next. There is a limit to putting up taxes, as it just reduces the incentive to work harder. The only way to cut the deficit is to cut expenditure. For far too long Nu labour has squandered billions on creating non jobs in every council/civil service up and down the Country. What do half these people do, I am excluding doctors,nurses,police,fire etc but do we really need trampoline instructors and a composting supervisor etc. see here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6122296.ece

 

In principal I agree the rich should pay more, but there is only so much you can get away with. Dennis Healy tried it in the 70's trying to squeeze the rich until the pips came out, we all know what happened next. High taxes will only bring us a return to conservative rule. Do we really want Thatcher 2 the sequel!

 

If my earnings go down I spend less, I don't go and borrow up to my credit card limit and then get another card, that is a recipe for disaster and bankruptcy. That is where this Country is headed.

 

Finally if people like Caine do retire and no longer pay tax, then we will have to put up taxes on everybody else to make up the deficit. So no sense in that. :)

Spot on... Caine should either retire (and thus avoid the 50% tax rate) or shut the fukk up and pay up..... He doesn't seem to actually appreciate the fact that this country is in un utter shambles because of rich, greedy b/astards like him who fukked up the banking/financial system which the ORDINARY taxpayer who earns a damn sight less than he does now has to prop up through THEIR taxes..... <_<

 

Caine - fukk off and die.....

 

that must be the most STUPID post you have ever written, and ive known you online for 5 years... or has crazy chris hi-jacked your account?

 

I don't see how you can blame Michael Caine for the banking shambles, he is just a working class guy that made good. Are you suggesting no one should aspire to better themselves? If we all just took the easy route we would all just sit around all day and watch TV and claim benefits. His point is valid if you ask me, and not much different to the majority views on here about the millions who take and contribute nothing to society. Like them or hate them the rich mob do pay taxes. However by putting them up to 50% or higher usually results in less tax being collected, as they employ clever tax accountants to find ways round it. There are only about 300,000 people who earn over £150k in the UK and the most it will collect is £7b at best, and only if they all pay. The likelyhood is it will only bring in about £2b by the ones who accept they should pay more, the rest will avoid it by whatever means they can. £2b ain't gonna make a dent on the debt for this year or next. There is a limit to putting up taxes, as it just reduces the incentive to work harder. The only way to cut the deficit is to cut expenditure. For far too long Nu labour has squandered billions on creating non jobs in every council/civil service up and down the Country. What do half these people do, I am excluding doctors,nurses,police,fire etc but do we really need trampoline instructors and a composting supervisor etc. see here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6122296.ece

 

In principal I agree the rich should pay more, but there is only so much you can get away with. Dennis Healy tried it in the 70's trying to squeeze the rich until the pips came out, we all know what happened next. High taxes will only bring us a return to conservative rule. Do we really want Thatcher 2 the sequel!

 

If my earnings go down I spend less, I don't go and borrow up to my credit card limit and then get another card, that is a recipe for disaster and bankruptcy. That is where this Country is headed.

 

Finally if people like Caine do retire and no longer pay tax, then we will have to put up taxes on everybody else to make up the deficit. So no sense in that. :)

 

spot on bri... especially the last line! :lol:

 

i have a far bigger problem with benefits cheats then rich cheats, at least the rich cheats are/have done something for the country... paying taxes, creating jobs etc .

 

i have a far bigger problem with benefits cheats then rich cheats, at least the rich cheats are/have done something for the country... paying taxes, creating jobs etc .

 

And that has to be the stupidest thing YOU'VE ever written.... It's not because of benefits cheats that our economy is utterly fukked for a generation and we had to spend billions to bail out the banks, it's because of WHITE COLLAR criminals like Fred Goodwin, and incompetent, upper middle-class, nouveau riche bunglers like Broon and Darling who just lay on their bellies and spread their ass-cheeks open wide for all the top bankers and City boys..... And I find it laughable that you make excuses for white collar crooks, saying they've created jobs and paid taxes.... These types use every dodge in the book to AVOID paying tax (which is a very big part of the whole problem..); you ever heard of scandals involving tax havens in places like Zug, Andorra, Luxembourg, the Channel Islands, etc, etc, and the likes of Tesco putting tens of millions into offshore Tax Havens....? Educate yourself and read more about the subject before spouting such cr@p mate..... As for "creating jobs", really....? And here was me thinking that tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of ordinary people have LOST their jobs thanks to the actions of these white collar crims in the finance sector.... They are SCUM mate, a bunch of spivs and chavs in pinstripe suits, dont you dare make excuses for them.... <_<

 

I dont like benefits cheats, but they haven't messed up the country to anything like the extent these greedy, rich b'astards in the City and Wall St have..... And who's the more likely to be punished and be sent to prison, the ordinary joe fiddling the dole, or someone like Goodwin who gets a nice, huge bonus and a pension....? <_<

In principal I agree the rich should pay more, but there is only so much you can get away with. Dennis Healy tried it in the 70's trying to squeeze the rich until the pips came out, we all know what happened next. High taxes will only bring us a return to conservative rule. Do we really want Thatcher 2 the sequel!

 

Who the fukk is talking about a 95% tax rate though Bri....? It's 50%, that's fukk all to the likes of Caine... I just seriously object to rich whingers like Caine who pretend to be so bloody hard done by because their taxes go up a little bit under the most extraordinary circumstances.... It's like "fukk off mate", I just dont wanna hear it....

 

For the likes of Caine and "suralln" (who earn considerably more than £150k), I'd've put it up to 65%, no question..... Yes, Michael Caine may have come from a poor, working class background, but his whingeing has made it clear to me that he's forgotten his humble origins and has just become one of those objectionable, obnoxious Harry Enfield - "We're considerably richer than YAAAAAAAOWWWWWW" types...... <_<

 

So are we having the VAT rate back up to 17.5% yet?

 

Quite possibly the stupidest most pointless thing labour has done in the recession.

 

Knocking 2p off the price of bloody biscuits is not going to make people buy more biscuits.

 

Knocking 25p off the price of broadband is not going to make people get broadband. The majority of those who want it have it. If they could afford it they would go for one of the cheap packages available. 25p isn't going to make anything more affordable.

 

And who the f*** is going to go into Currys and go buy a HDTV because the vat cut has knocked the price down by a bloody fiver?

 

 

Brown and Darling quite clearly have no bloody clue with how to deal with this recession, it begs the question have they even got the right qualifications to be doing what they are doing? Have they a finance/economics/accounting degree? I'm nearly finished my second year in Accounting and have done enough economics to know that to increase demand you need a significant price drop.

 

Taking VAT off things would have done that, making a HDTV over £50 cheaper is gonna do a lot more than a bloody fiver.

 

Brown/Darling should really just shut the hell up and stop trying to convince the world to follow their lead. K Rudd is owning the pair of them right now. No gimicky VAT cut, he gave everyone $900.

 

If you wake up to find a cheque for $900 for both you and your partner you have $1800. What are you gonna do? Save part of it, probs, but you can now physically afford to buy the HDTV because you have to money to buy it with now.

 

If the people who demand the product don't have the funds to buy it, a £5 cut in price is going to do f*** all. It always was. The fact that Brown/Darling thought it would clearly shows that they are out of their depths. The best thing they could do for the UK is to call an election soon and get the f*** out of government.

Yes, Michael Caine may have come from a poor, working class background, but his whingeing has made it clear to me that he's forgotten his humble origins and has just become one of those objectionable, obnoxious Harry Enfield - "We're considerably richer than YAAAAAAAOWWWWWW" types...... <_<

 

thats more bollox.... the blokes worked all his life for the rewards he enjoys... i have no problem with that, and i fully support his views on the bone idle work shy scum he berates.

And that has to be the stupidest thing YOU'VE ever written.... It's not because of benefits cheats that our economy is utterly fukked for a generation and we had to spend billions to bail out the banks, it's because of WHITE COLLAR criminals like Fred Goodwin, and incompetent, upper middle-class, nouveau riche bunglers like Broon and Darling who just lay on their bellies and spread their ass-cheeks open wide for all the top bankers and City boys..... And I find it laughable that you make excuses for white collar crooks, saying they've created jobs and paid taxes.... These types use every dodge in the book to AVOID paying tax (which is a very big part of the whole problem..); you ever heard of scandals involving tax havens in places like Zug, Andorra, Luxembourg, the Channel Islands, etc, etc, and the likes of Tesco putting tens of millions into offshore Tax Havens....? Educate yourself and read more about the subject before spouting such cr@p mate..... As for "creating jobs", really....? And here was me thinking that tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of ordinary people have LOST their jobs thanks to the actions of these white collar crims in the finance sector.... They are SCUM mate, a bunch of spivs and chavs in pinstripe suits, dont you dare make excuses for them.... <_<

 

I dont like benefits cheats, but they haven't messed up the country to anything like the extent these greedy, rich b'astards in the City and Wall St have..... And who's the more likely to be punished and be sent to prison, the ordinary joe fiddling the dole, or someone like Goodwin who gets a nice, huge bonus and a pension....? <_<

 

blah de blah de blah.... you are fast becoming a charactuer of yourself m8... ok then, lets line up all the white collar workers against the wall, all the rich bstrds, get rid.... then were would we be? <_< , you talk as if ALL the wealthy are crooks and shirkers but in reality the VAST majority are no worse then you or me.... pillock.

 

thats more bollox.... the blokes worked all his life for the rewards he enjoys... i have no problem with that, and i fully support his views on the bone idle work shy scum he berates.

 

Well, sorry, but I dont... I'm simply NOT going to listen to some extremely rich dude bitch and moan about how "hard done by" he is because of a poxy 50% tax rate.... HE CAN AFFORD IT, so he should stop whingeing and either p!ss or get off the pot, the guy's 76, he doesn't NEED to carry on working, and if he does his job for the "love of acting, dear boy", then he should give his fees to charity......

 

Besides, just what the fukk is YOUR suggestion mate...? Raise taxes for people earning minimum wage...? Fukk off.... <_< For him to go on about "bone idle work shy scum" as being the actual reason his taxes have gone up shows his total ignorance of the issue.... The reason his taxes have gone up is because of the maggots in the city, Government and at top banking firms playing fast and loose with sh!t they knew bugger all about, and FUKKIN' UP OUR ECONOMY....... :angry: :angry: :angry: