No but as they're saying on Digital Spy, it does show there is room for movement from the EU with the backstop when we all thought it was absolutely set in concrete that they'd never budge on it.

I can see the argument for leaving the EU but I cannot see the argument for leaving the EU without a deal because there is not one. Not one person has come up with an argument that is any good and there's a reason the majority of the politicians are so against a No Deal bar the usual loonatics - because they know we are commiting economic suicide.

 

The problem with any deal is that it won't be enough for most Remainers, and too much for most Leavers, so I have some sympathy with those trying to negotiate in such an untenable position.

Edited January 27, 20196 yr by vidcapper

No-one wants us to leave without a deal really and not even me, but if MP's won't vote through May's deal which apart from the backstop wasn't bad from what I've read of it and I have researched it when I was bored late last night. Of course I'd prefer a deal and with Juncker saying there's a way they'll budge on the backstop I think we may be seeing light at the end of the tunnel at last.

The problem with any deal is that it won't be enough for most Remainers, and too much for most Leavers, so I have some sympathy with those trying to negotiate in such an untenable position.

 

Yes I have immense sympathy for May and her negotiators. Remember she has a team and isn't just negotiating herself as a mean lone wolf that won't budge, as some have called on other forums. I feel sorry in a way for the EU as they're trying their best too but it's hard to appease everyone. :(

Edited January 27, 20196 yr by Common Sense

Too bad y'all still won't be able to buy straight bananas

Too bad y'all still won't be able to buy straight bananas

 

 

:(

 

 

I'll switch to apples then. British apples. :D

Edited January 27, 20196 yr by Common Sense

What about those of us that don’t have a country of birth of the UK but are British?

 

I was born on a military base while my father was serving in the Air Force. My country of birth is Germany but as a Fetus I contributed more to this country than you ever have or ever will.

 

Why am I having my connection to my country of birth stripped from me? My rights to live and work in my country of birth? Does that not matter to you at all?

Still waiting Chris

The problem with any deal is that it won't be enough for most Remainers, and too much for most Leavers, so I have some sympathy with those trying to negotiate in such an untenable position.

 

Whilst I agree, I always suspected Brexit would end up being Brexit all in name and I think this is what would be best for the country (but obviously not for the hard-liners on both sides). The problem we have always had is we've never had any idea on what we wanted, and everything that the Hardliners do want is unetenable in reality. Sometimes you have to compromise but we're not.

 

I find it interesting as well how the likes of Gove and Boris Johnson are really trying to stay away from a No Deal Brexit as much as possible despite being the faces of the Leave campaign.

 

 

No-one wants us to leave without a deal really and not even me, but if MP's won't vote through May's deal which apart from the backstop wasn't bad from what I've read of it and I have researched it when I was bored late last night. Of course I'd prefer a deal and with Juncker saying there's a way they'll budge on the backstop I think we may be seeing light at the end of the tunnel at last.

 

I've read a fair bit and a lot of people seem to think the backstop is just an excuse for people wanting more from the Deal. I'm not sure the ERG and even the DUP are that arsed about a permanent border. I suspect it's because everyone thinks they can negotiate something better - which may or may not be true, but we've just about run out of time which is why I believe extending the deadline and everyone working together is the best option. Right now we have so many different party idelogies coming first and foremost with people not putting the country first.

 

The EU would be willing to cut the backstop, but it will mean a concession which is likely to be a permanent customs union. Again, not really what the extreme Brexiteers will want and Remainers will argue we might as well be in the EU..

This is the latest then. From The Guardian online. Light at the end of the tunnel at last?

 

Jean Claude Juncker has reportedly told Theresa May in a private phone call this morning, Sunday, that shifting her red lines in favour of a permanent customs union is the price she will need to pay for the EU revising the Irish backstop.

 

Without a major shift in the prime minister’s position, the European commission president told May that the current terms of the withdrawal agreement were non-negotiable.

 

Details of the call, contained in a leaked diplomatic note, emerged as Juncker’s deputy, Frans Timmermans, said there had been no weakening of the resolve in Brussels in support of Ireland, and accused the Tory Brexiters of a “cavalier” approach to peace.

 

Your move Theresa

Is permanent customs union not also Labour's condition for voting through the detail.

 

Would be interesting for both parties's MPs as well as their partisans.

Edited January 27, 20196 yr by Harve

Pushing aside the economics, I can’t understand why anyone would push for a No Deal in any form considering the impact that it would have on the already problematic and unsolvable Northern Ireland/Ireland relations.

Is permanent customs union not also Labour's condition for voting through the detail.

 

 

Yes it is.

-

Edited January 27, 20196 yr by The Snake

Pushing aside the economics, I can’t understand why anyone would push for a No Deal in any form considering the impact that it would have on the already problematic and unsolvable Northern Ireland/Ireland relations.

 

Indeed. And I also don't know why anyone would push for a customs union Brexit either considering it would basically be like being in the EU but with no say in what happens in it!

Edited January 27, 20196 yr by The Snake

Is permanent customs union not also Labour's condition for voting through the detail.

 

Yes, and I think that it is the majority view in Parliament that could see a deal passed (even the SNP might support it). There is growing support for Norway+ which seems like a way of honouring the vote but not completely destroying the economy, and leaves us in a position where we could easily rejoin in a decades time if public support was there for it (e.g. 70/30 instead of 50/50 as it is now).

 

Of course TM would be really reluctant to do it as it'll split the Tory party - it'll split Labour too but probably less so.

The SNP wouldn’t support a customs union on its own, if we were talking single market then the SNP would vote that through. Their position since 24/06/2016 has not changed, it’s always been that if we must go through with this then it has to be the Norway+ model of single market and customs union because that’s the least economically damaging, we still keep a lot of our free movement rights and it’s the closest to respecting a) what the leave campaign told the public over and over, and b) the Irish border and c) that both NI and Scotland chose to remain and finally d) that the vote really wasn’t that decisive.

 

EEA is a stupid move because we become a rule taker not a rule maker but it is the best compromise option if we really must leave

The SNP wouldn’t support a customs union on its own, if we were talking single market then the SNP would vote that through.

 

Yes, sorry - I meant with the Norway EEA added to it (e.g. Norway+)

Ah yes, then absolutely. They’ve been cheerleading for that outcome the whole time.

What do we think will happen with the amendments tomorrow?

 

I can't see any chance of Sir Graham Brady's amendment being passed at all, all opposition will vote against, as might Tory Remainers. There is quite a high probability I think that it might not even be called by the Speaker because it is a position which is highly unlikely to be agreed to by the EU.

 

Yvette Cooper's amendment should pass though I think, just about. Meaning Parliament will have agreed to a delay to Article 50.

Edited January 28, 20196 yr by The Snake

I really can't understand on any level having even a shred of sympathy for Theresa May. The situation she's in is entirely of her own making and choice.