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The consensus still seems to be that masks are next to useless in preventing an uninfected person contracting the virus. They can, however, help to prevent an infected person passing it on to someone else. What we don't know is how many infected people there are at any one time. As (to my knowledge) no country has been testing people who are showing no symptoms. we therefore haven't got a clue how many infections might be prevented by the wearing of masks.

 

Of course, the other consideration is whether there are enough masks and how they should be distributed. What have they done in other countries?

 

Spain says that if a non-infected and an infected person come into contact with each other whilst wearing masks the risk of transmission drops to 1.8%

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Sturgeon like in other countries has been careful in language with the use of the phrase “face coverings”

 

Every one of Germany’s 16 Länder has mandated face coverings. Berlin only for public transport but other states require them for shopping and other activities. Bayern is even fining people without one 150€! (300€ for repeat offenders)

 

We are getting masks through to the states to distribute how the individual states see fit but from the federal level down they’re all saying that an actual mask isn’t necessary, a scarf or fabric covering of some kind is also fine. Whole point is to cover mouth and nose to reduce your risk of passing on the virus.

 

 

Edit - Ha! Literally just as I hit send on this the Berlin senate mandates face coverings in stores from midnight, making us the final federal state to adopt those measures.

Spain says that if a non-infected and an infected person come into contact with each other whilst wearing masks the risk of transmission drops to 1.8%

That figure is relatively meaningless unless we know the equivalent figures for a) neither of them, b) only the infected person and c) only the non-infected person wearing a mask.

People can make masks

 

I wear when I'm out either a cotton scarf pulled tight or a sleeping mask over my nose & mouth. Either goes in the wash as soon as I get home.

 

All this furore over 'will it help?' No it won't be a miracle cure but everything we do will help a little bit. Just like the reason we take vitamin supplements & eat fruit & veg to keep our general health as good as can be.

You have just listed two ways you are allowed to leave your house in one day and you consider that strict? What do you actually think a non strict lockdown would look like?

 

Also what are you doing to help your own mental health right now? Because there are plenty of things you can do that, although it won’t be as great as it was before, will help you.

 

I am locked down on my own. But I am in touch with family, friends and colleague through FaceTime, phone and the internet. No, it’s not as good as seeing them in person but it’s the best I can get and I’ll take that! Twenty years ago this wouldn’t have been possible. I cannot go for my morning swim anymore. Big instead, I’m running up and down my garden. It’s not as fun but it’s something I can do. Don’t have a garden? You can jog on your one daily exercise. Or you can even follow some online fitness routines from the likes of Joe Wicks. I am still working from home and even having to go into work on occasion but for when I’m not working, I am reading books, watching films and binging tv shows, gaming, completing jobs around the house, general housework and working in the garden.

 

No, this lockdown is not great and we are all suffering to a degree. Things are not going to go back to normal quickly. What we need to remember is that although this sucks right now, hundreds of people are still dying every day because of this illness. We have to do our part to keep ourselves and everyone else safe. Restrictions will ease eventually but my biggest fear right now is that the government will ease things too quickly because of pressure from people who are getting itchy feet and then things will get worse again. I don’t trust this government at all but what other options have we?

 

Agree with all this. I went over the edge at the weekend dealing with my alzheimers mother being very difficult over a period of days when she needs cleaning so much - not her fault, but it's tough holding in all your frustrations and stress with no outlet with so much else to deal with. I totally sympathise with anyone feeling they are going slightly mad. But you dont have to stay locked in if you are sensible - you can go out for walks locally, you can drive somewhere to exercise "as long as the period exercising is longer than the journey" so I did that and met up with a friend for a walk 2m apart which helped no end. What's app is great but it's a temp stand-by rather than a solution. Family came round and sat in the garden to chat through the window. None of these activities are anywhere near as hazardous for people who have been indoors for 5 weeks as, for example, having to stand in line to get into supermarkets with complete strangers you've no idea where they've been, or carers coming into your house.

 

The UK's lockdown will be worse than elsewhere because our government left it too late to tackle with. New Zealand shows what happens when you hit early and hard - you get out of it quicker and with minimal loss of life. The longer you take to respond, the more it escalates exponentially and the harder it is to tackle and bring down to a level where society is safe. 40,000 dead more or less is the real figure, and people are still dying in their hundreds in this country. Why? We have continued working. There is still public transport. There was no-brains planning for Care Homes, no co-ordination from the government to order NHS not to send patients back to care homes, people flaunting advice in droves when the sun came out. All of this will make it harder to lift lockdown, though if you you are queuing to get into Tesco what's the difference if you do the same with B&Q or PCWorld as long as the staff get safe treatment, they keep their distance and so on. But back to normal? Not going to happen for ages anywhere.

 

Why? They don't know if having had the disease makes you immune yet, or leaves you open to seasonal reinfection, like flu. If true then only seasonal injections (when they get one) will stop it. Children reportedly dying from side effects of getting covid-19 is very worrying if true. That puts some assumptions under question. The problem is, any government making decisions without having full facts to work to is just throwing dice and chancing it. As Starmer says, stop treating everyone like children and make adult statements setting it all out, what the problems are, are likely to be, and how that is going to affect life over the next year or two.

Give people an inch they'll take a mile, selfishly I want nothing more than to go and see my boyfriend but if the government relax things so that we can do that or see our family, close friends, more and more people are going to take the piss and flout the rules, have more gatherings. Everyone is suffering right now, no matter who they live with what they do. .

 

It will be every person for themselves basically soon once the measures are eased. It will depend how much people fear getting the virus as to how many people attend gatherings and don't take social distancing advice that seriously.

 

I certainly won't be socialising again after the lockdown, until such times as there is a widespread vaccine or anti viral drugs that can reduce risk of death from the virus. I know my immune system isn't that good as I tend to get colds for ages and as I am living at the moment at my parents house, I don't want my parents to get the virus either.

New Zealand shows what happens when you hit early and hard - you get out of it quicker and with minimal loss of life.

 

Greece has done relatively well too, another country which started their lockdown early.

 

As for New Zealand they may be free of the coronavirus now but if they still allow flights in to the country from other countries, particularly the most affected ones at the moment, then they will inevitably have more cases in the future.

 

 

Why does the media RUSH to proclaim the government's promises like it's the truth?! It just popped up that they will make testing available to all over 60s. That's greaaat - just like it's supposedly available already to all essential workers. Oh, what's that? They don't have many ests at all?! I see.
Why does the media RUSH to proclaim the government's promises like it's the truth?! It just popped up that they will make testing available to all over 60s. That's greaaat - just like it's supposedly available already to all essential workers. Oh, what's that? They don't have many ests at all?! I see.

Exactly. They keep promising big but delivering bugger all. They have failed - by a long way - to reach their target of 100,000 tests per day by the end of the month. Yes, I'm saying that before the end of the month but that's because I'm judging them on the promise they made. Even if they somehow manage to conduct 100,000 tests on Thursday (30 April), that is 100,000 tests on ONE day, not PER day. Furthermore, it will only be meaningful if they continue to do at least 100,000 test per day for several more weeks at least.

 

Look at the NHS volunteers. They crowed about getting far more volunteers than they asked for. But how many have actually been given anything to do? Last I knew (at the weekend), the number was about 50,000. So they asked for volunteers with nothing in place to give them something to do but it gave them some good front page headlines which is what it was designed to do.

Another one is how they don't have staff for the Nightingales. Not just not ventilator-trained nurses. No nurses.

 

Of course they don't, where are they going to get the extra capacity for staff? They resorted to trying to recruit people who had any sort of medical expertise in local areas or who was training to be a doctor. It's why I find the false reporting in the media that it seems like it's a bad thing the Nightingale hospitals have not been used, it's bloody good news we have not had to use them yet!

Agree with all this. I went over the edge at the weekend dealing with my alzheimers mother being very difficult over a period of days when she needs cleaning so much - not her fault, but it's tough holding in all your frustrations and stress with no outlet with so much else to deal with. I totally sympathise with anyone feeling they are going slightly mad. But you dont have to stay locked in if you are sensible - you can go out for walks locally, you can drive somewhere to exercise "as long as the period exercising is longer than the journey" so I did that and met up with a friend for a walk 2m apart which helped no end. What's app is great but it's a temp stand-by rather than a solution. Family came round and sat in the garden to chat through the window. None of these activities are anywhere near as hazardous for people who have been indoors for 5 weeks as, for example, having to stand in line to get into supermarkets with complete strangers you've no idea where they've been, or carers coming into your house.

 

The UK's lockdown will be worse than elsewhere because our government left it too late to tackle with. New Zealand shows what happens when you hit early and hard - you get out of it quicker and with minimal loss of life. The longer you take to respond, the more it escalates exponentially and the harder it is to tackle and bring down to a level where society is safe. 40,000 dead more or less is the real figure, and people are still dying in their hundreds in this country. Why? We have continued working. There is still public transport. There was no-brains planning for Care Homes, no co-ordination from the government to order NHS not to send patients back to care homes, people flaunting advice in droves when the sun came out. All of this will make it harder to lift lockdown, though if you you are queuing to get into Tesco what's the difference if you do the same with B&Q or PCWorld as long as the staff get safe treatment, they keep their distance and so on. But back to normal? Not going to happen for ages anywhere.

 

Why? They don't know if having had the disease makes you immune yet, or leaves you open to seasonal reinfection, like flu. If true then only seasonal injections (when they get one) will stop it. Children reportedly dying from side effects of getting covid-19 is very worrying if true. That puts some assumptions under question. The problem is, any government making decisions without having full facts to work to is just throwing dice and chancing it. As Starmer says, stop treating everyone like children and make adult statements setting it all out, what the problems are, are likely to be, and how that is going to affect life over the next year or two.

 

The children dying of side effects comment is really not accurate and potentially scaremongering.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt...vid-19-11979869

 

This article shows it is a suspected relation of covid-19 and no children have died from it so please check sources before you post misleading news.

Edited by Alex P

Exactly. They keep promising big but delivering bugger all. They have failed - by a long way - to reach their target of 100,000 tests per day by the end of the month. Yes, I'm saying that before the end of the month but that's because I'm judging them on the promise they made. Even if they somehow manage to conduct 100,000 tests on Thursday (30 April), that is 100,000 tests on ONE day, not PER day. Furthermore, it will only be meaningful if they continue to do at least 100,000 test per day for several more weeks at least.

 

Look at the NHS volunteers. They crowed about getting far more volunteers than they asked for. But how many have actually been given anything to do? Last I knew (at the weekend), the number was about 50,000. So they asked for volunteers with nothing in place to give them something to do but it gave them some good front page headlines which is what it was designed to do.

 

It's all bread and circuses. It's the hallmark of an authoritarian state. The media trips over itself to report these wild and unrealistic promises, and those who haven't researched it will just assume hat the givernment has followed through on these wild promises. Without an independent media holding it to account, the government can promise whatever it likes. The media will stay silent when it does not deliver.

 

Agree with all this. I went over the edge at the weekend dealing with my alzheimers mother being very difficult over a period of days when she needs cleaning so much - not her fault, but it's tough holding in all your frustrations and stress with no outlet with so much else to deal with. I totally sympathise with anyone feeling they are going slightly mad. But you dont have to stay locked in if you are sensible - you can go out for walks locally, you can drive somewhere to exercise "as long as the period exercising is longer than the journey" so I did that and met up with a friend for a walk 2m apart which helped no end. What's app is great but it's a temp stand-by rather than a solution. Family came round and sat in the garden to chat through the window. None of these activities are anywhere near as hazardous for people who have been indoors for 5 weeks as, for example, having to stand in line to get into supermarkets with complete strangers you've no idea where they've been, or carers coming into your house.

 

The UK's lockdown will be worse than elsewhere because our government left it too late to tackle with. New Zealand shows what happens when you hit early and hard - you get out of it quicker and with minimal loss of life. The longer you take to respond, the more it escalates exponentially and the harder it is to tackle and bring down to a level where society is safe. 40,000 dead more or less is the real figure, and people are still dying in their hundreds in this country. Why? We have continued working. There is still public transport. There was no-brains planning for Care Homes, no co-ordination from the government to order NHS not to send patients back to care homes, people flaunting advice in droves when the sun came out. All of this will make it harder to lift lockdown, though if you you are queuing to get into Tesco what's the difference if you do the same with B&Q or PCWorld as long as the staff get safe treatment, they keep their distance and so on. But back to normal? Not going to happen for ages anywhere.

 

Why? They don't know if having had the disease makes you immune yet, or leaves you open to seasonal reinfection, like flu. If true then only seasonal injections (when they get one) will stop it. Children reportedly dying from side effects of getting covid-19 is very worrying if true. That puts some assumptions under question. The problem is, any government making decisions without having full facts to work to is just throwing dice and chancing it. As Starmer says, stop treating everyone like children and make adult statements setting it all out, what the problems are, are likely to be, and how that is going to affect life over the next year or two.

 

Again on the New Zealand point which is a really bad example of a country to compare us to which people continue to do.

 

New Zealand has a population of 4 million, is in the middle of nowhere and has no major cities than can even compare to the likes of London.

 

All major businesses started to move very quickly when it became clear that stay at home recommendations we’re going to be implemented. How does anyone think we can shut the country down one day and expect the correct infrastructures be in place to allow many companies to work from home the next if a fast and swift lockdown was implemented.

 

I fully agree where we did fail was the continuing of mass gatherings, however, I do feel that additional week we didn’t lockdown gave the country the time to prepare. There was one death on 14th March in the UK the government would have never got away with shutting the country down with one reported death. Hindsight tells us otherwise that it would have been a good idea knowing what we know now but it was completely impractical to shut down any earlier if you consider it logically.

Edited by Alex P

The children dying of side effects comment is really not accurate and potentially scaremongering.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt...vid-19-11979869

 

This article shows it is a suspected relation of covid-19 and no children have died from it so please check sources before you post misleading news.

The report I read this morning left many questions open. It looked to me like the warning sent to GPs may be the sot of warning that gets sent out fairly frequently. It is only news because of the current crisis. It may also be designed to signal to parents that they must contact their GP if their child shows these symptoms. Some reports in the last few weeks suggest that a lot of people are holding back from contacting their GP when they really shouldn't.

It's all bread and circuses. It's the hallmark of an authoritarian state. The media trips over itself to report these wild and unrealistic promises, and those who haven't researched it will just assume hat the givernment has followed through on these wild promises. Without an independent media holding it to account, the government can promise whatever it likes. The media will stay silent when it does not deliver.

The number of people on social media (some of them are, of course, bots) suggesting that it is not the job of journalists to ask ministers awkward questions is truly alarming.

The report I read this morning left many questions open. It looked to me like the warning sent to GPs may be the sot of warning that gets sent out fairly frequently. It is only news because of the current crisis. It may also be designed to signal to parents that they must contact their GP if their child shows these symptoms. Some reports in the last few weeks suggest that a lot of people are holding back from contacting their GP when they really shouldn't.

 

I think the government have put the general public in the position of fear mode of not contacting the relevant authorities for help now they are saying we should. A lot of mild conditions may have become serious due to being ignored through fear of contacting or going to the doctors.

 

It has been handled very poorly. However, I do think the British public are a lot to blame for some of the scare mongering, I have lost count of the amount of mums I have seen on social media who are not letting their kids out of the house under any conditions and won’t be letting their children return to school until there is a vaccine messages like this spread as people start to think coronavirus is a death sentence if you get it.

I think the government have put the general public in the position of fear mode of not contacting the relevant authorities for help now they are saying we should. A lot of mild conditions may have become serious due to being ignored through fear of contacting or going to the doctors.

 

It has been handled very poorly. However, I do think the British public are a lot to blame for some of the scare mongering, I have lost count of the amount of mums I have seen on social media who are not letting their kids out of the house under any conditions and won’t be letting their children return to school until there is a vaccine messages like this spread as people start to think coronavirus is a death sentence if you get it.

That is going to make things very difficult for the government. Assuming the reopening of schools goes according to plan elsewhere, it will be an obvious starting point here as well. If large numbers of children are kept away from school, the government will have to decide whether to go for mass prosecution or threaten to make the children repeat their current year. Neither of those options will be popular with parents.

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