I've mentioned this before that when it's over 60% on rotten it is considered a critical success so nearly 70% is indeed a critical success. Also It was nominated for every major awards ceremony going getting 11 which was more than any other film, nominations at the Oscars in it's release schedule. Finally with a gross of over 1 billion at the box office it was 100% a smash in every sense of the word, critically, commercially and in nominations.

No, it wasn't critically acclaimed and nominations were due to huge box office numbers + Joaquin's great performance.

I really do think they had an idea with how things were going with how quickly they’re pivoting to LG7. Smart x

By "how quickly", you meant almost 5 years since LG6? :unsure:

By "how quickly", you meant almost 5 years since LG6? :unsure:

 

You know exactly what I mean — she usually lets her big projects breathe before moving onto the next big one. It's unusual for her to have a collaboration single, blockbuster film, side album and lead single all landing around the same time.

Saw this Friday morning and hated it. The script is terrible and the movie itself is so awfully paced that it never gets going... there are a couple of scenes

Joker vs Puddles and the explosion

which were good scenes. But everything else was just so dull and boring that I genuinely felt like I had been there for hours on end. The musical aspect felt so forced and unnatural. I was wondering why 'Happy Mistake' wasn't in the movie to get them the Best Original Song Oscar, but I'm kinda thankful it's not really tied into this tbh.

 

Although I wasn't as "won over" by them as most are/were, the critics are correct in that Joaquin and Gaga's performances are not to blame. They did what they could with the heap of shit that they got given... although I'm not sure the reports about them rewriting the script on napkins as they were shooting helped matters! :drama:

 

Just a total misfire for me and it's annoyed me more than anything. :drama:

 

I hope if you are yet to see it that you can find good in it, at least! (Who knows maybe we've set the bar incredibly low for you all so that it's actually not as bad as you think it was going to be or something :lol:)

I'm going this afternoon and I'm nervous

No, it wasn't critically acclaimed and nominations were due to huge box office numbers + Joaquin's great performance.

 

 

Sure Jan. :rolleyes:

 

You know exactly what I mean — she usually lets her big projects breathe before moving onto the next big one. It's unusual for her to have a collaboration single, blockbuster film, side album and lead single all landing around the same time.

 

 

They are doing exactly what they accused me of in another thread, playing dumb. :rolleyes:

 

I'm going this afternoon and I'm nervous

 

 

Go in with an open mind, the acting is at least excellent across the board.

Possibly the worst film I’ve seen this year, sadly. I don’t know what the writers were going for but absolutely nothing landed. Phoenix was good with the terrible script they gave him but that’s all I can think of that’s a positive. I think there was some good ideas in there that seemed to hage been chopped up and ruined in the edit. They really botched Harley’s characterisation which was an insult to Gaga and the character.

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by 365

About to watch. Wish me luck x

Agreed with Joe tbh. I think this is the biggest misfire for a big, Hollywood movie I’ve seen in a while. At least with something like Aquaman 2 etc… everyone had a feeling it’d be shit.

 

About to watch. Wish me luck x

You won’t need to worry about Gaga. Everything else though… ughhhh. So frustrating! But hope you like it!

You know exactly what I mean — she usually lets her big projects breathe before moving onto the next big one. It's unusual for her to have a collaboration single, blockbuster film, side album and lead single all landing around the same time.

Joker 2's theatrical release date was announced in 2022, 2 years ago. Die With A Smile was a sudden collab, Bruno called Gaga out of the blue and then they finished it. Harlequin was another sudden project, the only thing planned for Q3/Q4 besides Joker 2 was LG7's lead, which had already been announced in the Chromatica Ball film earlier this year.

I'VE SEEN IT AND HAVE THOUGHTS *spoilers ahead - not in spoiler tags because the film is out*

 

Firstly, I left the cinema thinking "that was not as horrific as it's being made out to be"... so that was a plus - the onslaught of negativity actually made helped ease my feelings. Is the film very good (like the first?), no, not at all. Is it "the worst film ever!!1", also no because of its redeeming features which I'll get into.

 

My biggest issue with it was the musical aspect of it. It was billed as a twisted film with musical elements - let's not front, it was full on musical. The scenes in Arthur's mind, on stage, worked and if it was just those scenes as part of the musical aspect, I'd have bought it. But them breaking into song mid conversation was ridiculous and one of the reasons I can't usually stand musicals. A Star is Born had a set up on stage, and the songs were song for purpose - here it was just cringe, detracted from the horror of the film and the brutality of it and just ruined the entire experience. For a Gaga stan to think: Gaga, stop singing - it had to be over done.

 

Another gripe - in a 2.5 hour film, about 2 hours if felt like were in the courtroom. I didn't need such a drawn out court scene. I needed to see the disintegration of Arthur, or the development of Lee as a new entity in the universe. We learnt a bit about her, which was a lie, and then nothing else - so what did we learn about her really apart from the fact she idolised Joker? The Puddles scene was the worst of the entire lot, I cringed so hard throughout it and felt no emotion.

 

Without as much singing and without as much court room, we could have really developed Lee as a fully realised character and delved further into Arthur's mind. The two actors were phenomenal and especially Joaquin did everything and more with the roles and script handed to them but it didn't save the film from being a misfire.

 

Some brilliant cinematography and costuming (subtle for the Arkham universe but done really well), some dark plots and themes being explored but ultimately let down by the musical aspects and the thin plot. I am sure on paper when the ideas were first being discussed, this would've seemed like a masterpiece waiting to be born - the musical aspects of the first film were done in brilliantly subtle ways and that worked. It was natural that music was going to form a part of this sequel but it didn't need to be that overdone!

 

The ending I actually loved... sort of. The explosion, Harvey Dent being damaged (Two-Face readying himself for part 3 was my initial thought), Harley's did-she-didn't-she gun shot to the head and then appearing as a ghostly vision to Arthur on the stairs - it was all incredible. Then Arthur being arrested again and us returning to the end of the first film, made it all a bit pointless again. The THAT final scene and a new Joker being born was good again so as mentioned - IT HAD THE INGREDIENTS OF BEING A MASTERPIECE.

 

Overall, I'd probably give it a 6/10 and conclude that it's really not as bad as people are making out, just annoying in parts, under-developed and the usual musical cringe that I don't enjoy in cinema.

The movie had several issues with whatever it wanted to be, but I don't think it's a disaster by any means. Loved Joaquin and Gaga, but the genre hybrid was never going to work to the comic book fans and DC audience, because it didn't even work for me, hence the tragic audience score.

 

Edit: And what Bal said about people just starting to sing.. It became annoying as the movie went on.

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by Sour Candy

A positive - it's the #1 film in the world this weekend meaning Gaga has the #1 song and film simultaneously. The film grossed $121.1million in its opening weekend globally.

I'VE SEEN IT AND HAVE THOUGHTS *spoilers ahead - not in spoiler tags because the film is out*

 

Firstly, I left the cinema thinking "that was not as horrific as it's being made out to be"... so that was a plus - the onslaught of negativity actually made helped ease my feelings. Is the film very good (like the first?), no, not at all. Is it "the worst film ever!!1", also no because of its redeeming features which I'll get into.

 

My biggest issue with it was the musical aspect of it. It was billed as a twisted film with musical elements - let's not front, it was full on musical. The scenes in Arthur's mind, on stage, worked and if it was just those scenes as part of the musical aspect, I'd have bought it. But them breaking into song mid conversation was ridiculous and one of the reasons I can't usually stand musicals. A Star is Born had a set up on stage, and the songs were song for purpose - here it was just cringe, detracted from the horror of the film and the brutality of it and just ruined the entire experience. For a Gaga stan to think: Gaga, stop singing - it had to be over done.

 

I laughed so much at this comment 🤣🤣🤣

 

I agree with that assessment though, the bit when she sang close to you!?!?!? She sounded gorgeous but it was just cringe and it being a cover song too rather than an original made it even more cringe.

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by spiceboy

It's a bit ironic that Close to You is actually the most streamed song from Harlequin - of those that actually appear in the film (Happy Mistake is the most popular obviously).

 

The box office numbers are pretty good, not a disaster some people think they would be. It's going to do well internationally I think.

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by Sour Candy

Kind of want to see this out of curiosity 'cos of how bad everyone's saying it is.

I really recommend! It's an interesting piece of work, even though not very good as a movie.

Seeing this tomorrow afternoon purely for Gaga, not really looking forward to it now after reading what everyone's been saying and considering how long it is, I get annoyed at a runtime over two hours even if a movie is good :lol:. Don't consider myself a Joaquin Phoenix fan either as he was the lead in the worst film I've ever sat through at the cinema, and I've never forgiven even if that was about ten years ago. But maybe I can find some good in it as I love a courtroom drama, and musicals. Not seen the first Joker movie and I'm not sure whether that will be a good thing or not (on one hand, I won't have something else to compare it to, but maybe I won't be able to follow it enough)

 

Loool at someone trying to downplay the critical success of a movie that was the most nominated at the Oscars ceremony it was a part of.

The international numbers are going to be interesting because this has a release in China, whereas the first did not! I believe the Chinese market is 2nd to the US? (It might actually be 1st!)

I think everyone's bringing up valid points...but I will say. I liked it better than most.

 

Yes, some things don't work. Spending so much time with the courtroom is a mistake. I'd kinda argue that movies about trials really only work if they're uncovering something we don't already know. Too much of this courtroom stuff is a rehash of what we saw in the first movie.

 

With the musical numbers, I'll acknowledge several of them don't advance the plot. But. Personally, I didn't mind them. They're shot beautifully. For me, they added a boost of energy. I like musicals in general. Could they have done better with integrating the songs into the story? Yes. But the idea of Arthur escaping into his own head to cope with the world made enough sense to me. I rolled with it.

 

I thought the performances were uniformly excellent. Granted, going in, I'd already heard this wasn't really a co-lead film with Joaquin and Gaga. It's Joaquin as the obvious lead...with Gaga's role just about how she influences him. Her performance doesn't go gleefully off-the-rails in a way people might have anticipated. But for what the script called for...I thought she was great.

 

Oh. I know the ending is a major point of controversy among fans of the first movie. But. I dunno. Without spoiling anything here...I thought both movies had been hinting this is where we were headed?

 

Final thought. I think my fear from the reaction was that the filmmakers had done some soulless cash-in cause the first movie made a billion dollars. Having seen the movie...I do not think that. Regardless of if everything works, I do sense a passion for the filmmaking in this.

Edited October 7, 2024Oct 7 by Piers