6 hours ago, Rooney said:

I don't think they are only complext to me, a lot of our problems are deep rooted societal challenges which are not going to be solved in 5 years. We have to face the facts we have an aging population, a publicly funded health system, adult social care costs only going to spiral and AI likely to increase unemployment. Just saying "tax the rich", "make the 1% pay more", "bring everything under public ownership!" are ignoring inter-connected societal issues. A lot of it is pure populism, and whether you like it or not, unless you completely change the system Brexit style. Fair play - I get it! I understand why people are attracted to it at face value, but don't see a way this starts some form of Green revolution. Perhaps it may make Labour re-think their strategy somewhat, or their messaging/pivot.

I wouldn't trust Polanski with my shopping trolley, never mind the economy. I don't want this to feel like I am attacking left wing policies, I am socially very left wing, but certainly far more right on the economy. I think there are some good long term practices that could be done, but the Greens under Polanski is pure left wing populism, much like Farage hooked the right in with populism before he tried to actually get some MPs and realise he's got the worst types of MPs. It would be exactly like the Greens too, probably get a load of people in who helped enable the worst foreign policy of the last 30 years, just like the Reform have done.

What interconnected societal issues 🤣

49 minutes ago, Steve201 said:

What interconnected societal issues 🤣

We have an aging population, low birth rate and are entering a time when it is highly like a lot of entry level corporate roles will completely disappear or become highly limited. So it's likely unemployment will be on the rise. If you decide to make bringing all private companies under public ownership as a flagship policy, then you have to question where the money is coming from. Just saying daft things like "tax the rich" dosen't cut it and borrowing a whole heap of money isn't good either. We're absolutely crippled by the bond market and need to get a hold of our debt levels, it's the stuff that abolutely nobody wants to hear as it's boring as hell, but it's the truth. And nobody wants to make the difficult decision which is tax rises across the board across our political spectrum, left and right.

Part of my problem is Labour have actually delivered loads of actual left wing policies. I totally get the expected vibez are not left wing and there have been a few cock-ups along the the way, but people seem to have lost their minds to populism across the political spectrum. And I do understand why, as it's clear there is a lot of discontent.

I dint believe corporate entry roles will disappear there will be new forms of employment there always is. Also no one is staying all private companies should consume under public ownership but certainly ones ubder monopolies that people rely on for basic needs certainly should have some sort of democratic accountability to the people.

On taxing the rich it should be done through property. That’s not radical it’s just plain fairness imo. They can’t move physical concrete.

7 hours ago, Steve201 said:

I dint believe corporate entry roles will disappear there will be new forms of employment there always is. Also no one is staying all private companies should consume under public ownership but certainly ones ubder monopolies that people rely on for basic needs certainly should have some sort of democratic accountability to the people.

On taxing the rich it should be done through property. That’s not radical it’s just plain fairness imo. They can’t move physical concrete.

They are already disappearing in the private sector and certainly will increase over the next 18 months with AI. You're looking at a huge workplace transformation over the next two-three years. I don't subscribe to the fact that AI will be as huge as some people are betting on (Copilot still tells me wrong things haha) but it is certainly going to have a huge impact and there will be a lack of jobs for young people, as they will lack the experience needed. The jobs that we will have a need for.. guess what.. there is a major skills gap! You need solutions to these problems either through developing regulation which none of the Tech Bros want or something else.

And Steve this is entirely my point with stuff like "tax property". Yes in practice, it sounds great. But we currently have a property market which is largely stagnant, medium-high level interest rates, a council tax system which is wholly unfair. It's going to be politically a disaster to increase any tax on property as you know, people in SW London probably live in modset houses but have seen the increase go up dramatically. I can't see them being happy and they'll argue it's not their fault property value increased dramatically over a short period of time. I agree a great idea in practice, but I just don't see how it is workable. Unfortunateky the dial has moved too far and the ones who should pay more will find a way to avoid it.

It’s always too complicated when taxing tax avoiding rich people. Same as free health care at the point, pensions, welfare rather than the work house.

1 hour ago, Steve201 said:

It’s always too complicated when taxing tax avoiding rich people. Same as free health care at the point, pensions, welfare rather than the work house.

Yet no-one has come up with a politically workable solution outside of soundbites and three word slogans to capture attention. We are also not in post WW2!

I’m not suggesting we are post WW2 but all these things seem impossible ubtil they are possible. Prettt sure the world was in a lot worse position in 1945 yet they did these things. I do get though that ££ is a lot more mobile now. If Epstein has shown us anything we need to be more aggressive vs these ultra rich people who think they can do what they want.

There will be two by-elections in Scotland following elections to the Scottish Parliament by two SNP MPs, in Aberdeen South and Arbroath Broughty Ferry respectively. In 2024 Labour were only 859 votes behind the SNP in ABF, so if Andy Burnham were to attempt to get back into parliament in one of these, that one would be his best bet (SNP's majority in Aberdeen is a healthier 3,758), although I very much think it'll be a double SNP hold.

Fun fact about Arbroath - it is one of the few cities/towns in the UK that has a street with "Battenberg" in its name, alongside Belfast, Bolton, Romsey, Portsmouth, Abercynon, Leicester and London.

1 hour ago, Brett-Butler said:

Fun fact about Arbroath - it is one of the few cities/towns in the UK that has a street with "Battenberg" in its name, alongside Belfast, Bolton, Romsey, Portsmouth, Abercynon, Leicester and London.

🤣

So who's going to give up their seat for Andy then? Nobody at present but rumours persist tonight that a Manchester MP with a big majority may retire. Burnham may not even win it as Reform would throw everything at it.

Burnham standing in Scotland would be a very bad idea. It does two things, 1- fires up the SNP big time „aaah look England is parachuting MPs here to control the unruly colony“ and 2- reinforces the „Scottish“ labour is nothing more than a sticky label on an English party attack. You can’t argue that you have a Scottish leader and you’re a real party if the English just jump into whatever seat they want

Have a feeling Burnham would rather rep Manc tho.

Josh Simons has resigned for Andy Burnham.

and we're away!

Josh Simons, who has definitely resigned because he wants to put country first, and not because he reported unfavourable journalists to intelligence services claiming them to be pro-Putin stooges.

Anyway, the constituency in question is Makerfield, which had a 5,399 Labour majority over Reform UK in 2024. It forms part of Wigan council, in the most recent council elections Reform UK won 24 of the 25 seats up for grabs (including two in Ashton-in-Makerfield), so will fancy their chances here, even with Burnham running.

2 minutes ago, Brett-Butler said:

Josh Simons, who has definitely resigned because he wants to put country first, and not because he reported unfavourable journalists to intelligence services claiming them to be pro-Putin stooges.

Anyway, the constituency in question is Makerfield, which had a 5,399 Labour majority over Reform UK in 2024. It forms part of Wigan council, in the most recent council elections Reform UK won 24 of the 25 seats up for grabs (including two in Ashton-in-Makerfield), so will fancy their chances here, even with Burnham running.

I think he'll be beaten by Reform..

Suspect they chose it because there's not much of a Green existing vote in there and they can easily discourage Green attempts to play the tactical vote and that Andy's a nice soft-left kinda guy, unite the anti-Reform vote (not that the Greens will likely play ball) but this is insane, a by-election where the voters of that one constituency will be choosing the PM or at the least a strong potential challenger to be the PM.

(also yeah Simons was a liability so an expected choice)

expecting our media to have a normal one about it

A Labour MP stepping down to let the most popular Labour member with the public become an MP and challenge for the PM role only for them to potentially give Reform another MP is beyond ill-judged, it's the stuff of parody, and they promised an end to the chaos...!

I can't help but feel this is just going to end with the by-election being a Reform Gain from Labour.

I hope i'm wrong as I'm just massively disillusioned with the UK and the massive swing to the right over the last few years.

1 hour ago, Chez Wombat said:

A Labour MP stepping down to let the most popular Labour member with the public become an MP and challenge for the PM role only for them to potentially give Reform another MP is beyond ill-judged, it's the stuff of parody, and they promised an end to the chaos...!

Yep, the potential for this to be a huge own goal and give up the Mayor of Manchester as well. All for a bloke who had no idea he wanted to an MP 2 years ago.

4 hours ago, Brett-Butler said:

Josh Simons, who has definitely resigned because he wants to put country first, and not because he reported unfavourable journalists to intelligence services claiming them to be pro-Putin stooges.

Anyway, the constituency in question is Makerfield, which had a 5,399 Labour majority over Reform UK in 2024. It forms part of Wigan council, in the most recent council elections Reform UK won 24 of the 25 seats up for grabs (including two in Ashton-in-Makerfield), so will fancy their chances here, even with Burnham running.

Whereas de Pfeffel merely discussed getting a journalist beaten up.