All good points. In fact I was in Wales last weekend and did notice some of what you've mentioned, can definitely understand an aversion to the Union flag in general from the other home countries.

3 minutes ago, T Boy said:

If you do your research though, that girl has been invited to speak at Tommy Robinson’s rally and her father’s social media suggests heavy support of Robinson. Make of that what you will.

I had a feeling there would be more to the story than that widely purported...

Tommy visits my town quite a lot doing one of his speaking out against grooming gangs protest. Speaking out my arse. He’s just using those protests to groom people into being racists. Why doesn’t he protest against all grooming gangs instead of singling out Pakistani grooming gangs

The flag stuff is interesting. Personally, in my view the people who started the campaign used it as a way to intimidate people and force people to make a choice over which side of the debate you sit on. I've got no problem with the flag at all, even if the England flag itself definitely has been claimed by the far-right imo. The flags people are putting up look absolutely shite though, that's my problem. Then of course you get morons deciding to paint roundabouts, public signs etc. - just bonkers.

Gish gallop

Suddenly hearing lots about flags. Including multiple stories from people of colour about intimidation. And graffiti-ing road signs ffs.

I had thought the England flag was on its way back from being overly claimed by racist skinheads but nope, it's back to pariah status.

On 27/08/2025 at 21:31, T Boy said:

I guess you could slightly argue that not every potential reform voter is a racist but it’s quite clear that every racist is a reform voter.

Not really, not every reform voter is white from what I can tell,

And before you say anything I dont agree with reform at all (heck there was a UKIP Vs anit fascism protest going on in liverpool on Saturday and my main concern was I hope my wresting event isn't cancelled and how the fuvk am I supposed get to my hotel with all the roads blocked 🤣🤣)

Even the clown Farage realised he f***ed up with mentioning leaving UIHR, people dont realise what they will actually lose out on

I’d imagine he realised it would be impossible as much of the laws are within the unwritten British constitution going back 1000 years!

I've probably made a mental health mistake doing this but I've got into it arguing about the migrant hotels online this week. There's just so much misinformation and I can't stand it.

Here's what the right-wing media are claiming:

A luxury hotel paid for by taxpayers housing 150 criminal migrants (or insert slur here) is being kept open in Epping because a liberal judge silenced the entire population protesting against it. Its full of criminals that are allowed to roam free and the police are arresting and silencing anyone that protests.

And here's what's ACTUALLY happening based on what I've gathered by thoroughly researching multiple reports on it and cutting through the emotive bs:

A 'hotel' made from ex-council flats converted is currently being used as temporary housing for 150 migrants in Epping, UK, while the government processes their claims and decides if they can stay in the UK or must be sent back.

About 100-200 people out of the 11k that live in Epping (1-2% of the total population) are protesting against this for various reasons, primarily that they believe all of the people in the hotel to be criminals.

This is not proven. There have been a total of two criminal charges brought against the 150 residents. (Just over 1% of the total population within the residence). One charge was for fighting with the other migrants inside the hotel, a physical altercation. The other was for attempting to kiss a 14 year old girl in public. The migrant accused of the latter charge denies it and says he just said hello to the girl in question.

At the protests against the hotel there is a lot of racism and calls for violence against the people living in the hotel. The protesters collectively blame the people in the hotel for the one alleged assault. The protesters are uniformly white, as seen in media clips. The protesters have assaulted multiple security guards at the hotel, which has led to some arrests.

A judge has declared that the protestors, due to their behaviour, are in the wrong and that the government must not close the hotel due to the protestors' actions only. It is only the protestors' biased perspective that this is any kind of infringement of their rights.

I think uncontrolled immigration is an issue, but leaving the EU is what caused it with the Boris bounce. These jobs have to be done, and without seasonal EU workers, Boris had to then open the borders to longer term migrants. With the country having a sparcity of drinking water and droughts, if the population continues to climb as quickly as it has been, there will be ... issues. We've already seen infrastructure problems, too, as you need to have the infrastructure in place before expanding the population, and building into the green belt turns the country more and more into a concrete jungle, reduces ariable land, and raises more food secueity concerns in years of crises - see world wars, crops failure, ash in atmosphere, etc.

However, to blame aslyum seekers for coming and go flag waving is ... not it, and to vote for conmen like Farage is ... also not it. As climate change worsens, there will be more migrants anyway, as certain areas become more and more inhospitable. It just has to be managed and planned for.

49 minutes ago, J00prstar said:

I've probably made a mental health mistake doing this but I've got into it arguing about the migrant hotels online this week. There's just so much misinformation and I can't stand it.

Here's what the right-wing media are claiming:

A luxury hotel paid for by taxpayers housing 150 criminal migrants (or insert slur here) is being kept open in Epping because a liberal judge silenced the entire population protesting against it. Its full of criminals that are allowed to roam free and the police are arresting and silencing anyone that protests.

And here's what's ACTUALLY happening based on what I've gathered by thoroughly researching multiple reports on it and cutting through the emotive bs:

A 'hotel' made from ex-council flats converted is currently being used as temporary housing for 150 migrants in Epping, UK, while the government processes their claims and decides if they can stay in the UK or must be sent back.

About 100-200 people out of the 11k that live in Epping (0.1-0.2% of the total population) are protesting against this for various reasons, primarily that they believe all of the people in the hotel to be criminals.

This is not proven. There have been a total of two criminal charges brought against the 150 residents. (Just over 1% of the total population). One charge was for fighting with the other migrants inside the hotel, a physical altercation. The other was for attempting to kiss a 14 year old girl in public. The migrant accused of the latter charge denies it and says he just said hello to the girl in question.

At the protests against the hotel there is a lot of racism and calls for violence against the people living in the hotel. The protesters collectively blame the people in the hotel for the one alleged assault. The protesters are uniformly white, as seen in media clips. The protesters have assaulted multiple security guards at the hotel, which has led to some arrests.

A judge has declared that the protestors, due to their behaviour, are in the wrong and that the government must not close the hotel due to the protestors' actions only. It is only the protestors' biased perspective that this is any kind of infringement of their rights.

People are getting swept up in it too. A lot of people claiming they're 'reasonable' and 'can see the problems with both sides' but yet talk endlessly about boatloads of 'fighting-age men', a solid sign they've been listening to fascist agitators.

The hotels like Epping are easily coopted as 'why are we putting illegal immigrants up in hotels' when the obvious answer is 'so the government can keep track of them while they wrestle with the Tory-gutted Home Office border force to process them'.

The judge has made the correct decision but all you fucking see online in larger social media sites is a bunch of people/outside agitators saying shit like 'wow what a wrong decision, get ready for more protests'. It feels completely unnatural for anyone to be caring about this issue so much but we're all being stoked to think it's important.

(can't imagine anyone who doesn't watch the news to organically stumble upon this as an issue, that's my main point)

What people also seem to miss with the whole 'why are they in hotels' line.

They aren't really in hotels in the sense of anything like Travelodge, Premier Inn, Ibis, Marriott. They're in dorm-style rooms sharing with either their family group or strangers, more like hostels at the most.

And asylum seekers aren't the only kind of people living like that. Due to as Iz says the Tory government's gutting and cutting of institutions that offer support to people struggling, over 10,000 families in the UK who have been made homeless are also living in such accommodations. Some of you might remember a documentary that aired 5 or so years ago about such people; living in hotel rooms and B&Bs, trying to cook meals for their kids on 2 ring plug-in hobs balanced on top of chest of drawers, storing all their worldly posessions in boxes on top of the wardrobes and under the bed, having to live basically like hoarders because there were no council houses available.

There's no council houses available for British citizens struggling, so there's even less available for people fleeing war, famine, persecution etc. in other countries.

They are in hotels when they first arrive and are then generally moved to a private landlords HMO/house through MEARS.

Where do people want them to be placed??

Back to the original question British politics usually changes once every 100 years down to changes in the electorate or due to corruption - see 1918 election being the breakthrough for Labour which differentiated from the liberals as representing organised Labour/trade unionism when it was clear the liberals alone couldn’t and following the 1819-32 period of Peterloo and the new franchise due to the rotten boroughs seeing the Conservatives vs Whigs/Liberals (after 1859 and Lord Derby PMship).

So yes, Reform could become a major player in 2029 but three years is a long time in politics.

On 27/08/2025 at 18:25, J00prstar said:

Where are the actual voices of asylum seekers in this? They're the centre of this topic and yet are only talked about as if they were animals or a natural disaster. Interview them through a translator and let's hear what they really think and what they really want to be doing.

I'd heartily recommend Nicola Kelly's recent book Anywhere But Here: How Britain’s Broken Asylum System Fails Us All - she used to work as a press officer at the Home Office and exposes the shamefully under-resourced and chaotic asylum system that is at the heart of this issue. In it she actually gives a voice to the refugees themselves to find out who they are and what has forced them to make this pretty terrifying and desperate journey across one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, instead of constantly reducing them to mere statistics and describing them all as predatory, aggressive sex offenders. It's so refresing because as you say in all this endless coverage we never actually hear from them at all.

The whole debate is completely toxic, and as you say the far right are exploiting ignorance/misinformation about the situation for political gain, and what we don't have right now is any politician brave enough to take the heat out of the debate and call this out. Farage, Badenoch (and all those seeking to replace her in the broken husk of the Tory party) as well as Starmer are all just stoking the flames further.

31 minutes ago, Doctor Blind said:

I'd heartily recommend Nicola Kelly's recent book Anywhere But Here: How Britain’s Broken Asylum System Fails Us All - she used to work as a press officer at the Home Office and exposes the shamefully under-resourced and chaotic asylum system that is at the heart of this issue. In it she actually gives a voice to the refugees themselves to find out who they are and what has forced them to make this pretty terrifying and desperate journey across one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, instead of constantly reducing them to mere statistics and describing them all as predatory, aggressive sex offenders. It's so refresing because as you say in all this endless coverage we never actually hear from them at all.

The whole debate is completely toxic, and as you say the far right are exploiting ignorance/misinformation about the situation for political gain, and what we don't have right now is any politician brave enough to take the heat out of the debate and call this out. Farage, Badenoch (and all those seeking to replace her in the broken husk of the Tory party) as well as Starmer are all just stoking the flames further.

Ed Davey has spoken out against the hate-filled rhetoric, but "news" providers haven't bothered to report it.