Thatcher put money ahead of morality, says Clegg

Independent.co.uk

By Michael Savage, Political correspondent

Saturday, 7 March 2009

 

On the 25th anniversary of the miners' strike, Nick Clegg, blamed Baroness Thatcher for creating a 'dog-eat-dog, get-rich quick, look after number one Britain'

 

Nick Clegg has launched an outspoken attack on life in Britain under Margaret Thatcher and blamed the former prime minister for sewing the seeds of the current economic crisis.

 

Speaking to Liberal Democrat activists last night, Mr Clegg, blamed Baroness Thatcher for creating a "brutal" and "soulless" Britain, and condemned the former leader for her brand of "cut-throat, sink-or-swim materialism".

 

In what many in Westminster will see as an attempt to brand the Tories as the wrong party to deal with the recession, the Liberal Democrat leader described Mrs Thatcher's Britain as a place where profit was worshipped above all else.

 

"When the right won out, the reality was brutal," he said in a speech ahead of the Liberal Democrats' spring conference in Harrogate. "I remember very distinctly this sense that we were being told we should all place money above morality; put profit ahead of people; that we shouldn't worry about selling out. Because, at the end of the day, there was no such thing as society. But I looked around me and thought: no, there has to be more to life than this. There is more to us than this. Justice, fairness, community. We weren't ready to give in to that soulless, unforgiving Britain. That dog-eat-dog, get-rich-quick, look-after-number-one Britain. We didn't want to live in Thatcher's Britain.

 

"The false idols of trickle-down economics worshipped by Tories and New Labour alike have turned to dust."

 

The attack comes at the end of a week marking the 25th anniversary of the miners' strike, in which thousands of colliers engaged in a year-long dispute with the Thatcher government.

 

Close advisers to Mr Clegg believe the public are still not enthused with David Cameron's party, despite disillusionment with the Government. They are keen to link the Tory leadership with the unpopular policies of the past.

 

Mr Clegg also spoke at length about the birth of his new son, Miguel, admitting that it had taken its toll on his sleep patterns. "I won't lie. Yes, I am functioning on just a few hours sleep," he said.

 

"And thank you to the more honest of you who have kindly told me I look knackered. But what I really feel is energised. These first weeks really are extraordinary. Not simply because you are confronted with this tiny person who is completely dependent on you. But also because, despite the exhaustion, despite the fact you surge from one emotion to the next, the world suddenly seems so much more straightforward."

 

Mr Clegg will use his speech to the party tomorrow to call on the Government to cut short its "pointless" £12.5bn VAT cut and demand the money be spent on directly creating about 94,000 jobs to help Britain move to a low-carbon economy.

 

Every school and hospital in Britain would be insulated over the next five years under the party's plan, with £1bn earmarked to complete a fifth of the work this year, creating 6,500 jobs. It would also create 60,000 jobs by building 40,000 zero-carbon social homes, and 15,000 jobs by funding the insulation of a million homes.

 

Tomorrow, Vince Cable, the party's Treasury spokesman, will use his speech to start a new attack on the "bonus culture", and call on all highly paid employees to disclose their pensions and perks. Currently, only company directors have to disclose the information.

 

Blair and Brown on Thatcher:

 

Tony Blair: "Mrs Thatcher was a radical, not a Tory. [she] got certain things right: a greater emphasis on enterprise, rewarding – not penalising – success"

 

Gordon Brown: "[she] understood the need for change. I also admire the fact that she is a conviction politician"

 

Do you agree or disagree with the Liberal Democrats leader's attack on Margaret Thatcher's legacy?

 

Maggie gave birth to "chav culture", she destroyed this country's sense of community and absolutely destroyed our society and our values.... Before Thatcherism, we never had a society so crippled with debt, so into "easy credit", and look where all this unfettered Capitalism that SHE and the Adam Smith Institute espoused has gotten us... The credit crunch, a deep recession and people like Fred Goodman who have no shame... In the 50s and 60s, the remuneration packages to executives was 40:1 in comparison to the average worker, now it's 400:1.... The greed of these people is simply obscene.... And, have they actually earned this money....? Well, no, they haven't.. Unless you say that selling us all down the river and ruining our entire economy for the sake of their own fukkin' greed is actually "earning" your money.....

 

Yes, Clegg is absolutely, 100% spot on.....

It's about time a senior politician made it clear how much of the blame for this crisis lies with that woman. She's the one who allowed - and encouraged - building societies to convert to banks. Now, none of the societies which did convert still exist as independent businesses. She's the one who allowed banks to go beyond their traditional role and start gambling with our money.

 

Only a year or so ago the Tories were still arguing against stricter regulation. Now they're blaming this government for the lack of regualtion but we all know how they would have reacted if Blair and Brown had tried to tighten regulation.

 

So, Nick Clegg is absolutely right and I hope the Lib Dems continue to make the case over the coming months.

Maggie gave birth to "chav culture", she destroyed this country's sense of community and absolutely destroyed our society and our values.... Before Thatcherism, we never had a society so crippled with debt, so into "easy credit", and look where all this unfettered Capitalism that SHE and the Adam Smith Institute espoused has gotten us... The credit crunch, a deep recession and people like Fred Goodman who have no shame... In the 50s and 60s, the remuneration packages to executives was 40:1 in comparison to the average worker, now it's 400:1.... The greed of these people is simply obscene.... And, have they actually earned this money....? Well, no, they haven't.. Unless you say that selling us all down the river and ruining our entire economy for the sake of their own fukkin' greed is actually "earning" your money.....

 

Yes, Clegg is absolutely, 100% spot on.....

 

Agreed.

 

Add to that the vindictive destruction of the UK's manufacturing sector so that the same people who parents would have gone down the mines for coal to produce our utilities; are now fighting in Iraq & Afghanistan to secure the resource of Oil to produce the same thing; plus the selling off our monopoly utilitities that now belong to foreign companies so as a result we are charged up to 4 times more for gas and electricity than other European companies to subsidise other foreign countries where they supply the same utilities; whilst the legislation enabling former Building Societies to become Banks/PLCs has been an unmitigated disaster to the UK economy which we will all (except the work shy scroungers/sponguers) have to pay for.

 

As Roy Hattersley best put it last week "Yes Thatcher did cause great change in the country .... but so does a fire to a forest." Whilst providing the brilliant soundbite: "Thatcher's values & her real legacy can be best exemplified today by two people ... Jade Goody & Sir Fred Goodwin".

As Roy Hattersley best put it last week "Yes Thatcher did cause great change in the country .... but so does a fire to a forest." Whilst providing the brilliant soundbite: "Thatcher's values & her real legacy can be best exemplified today by two people ... Jade Goody & Sir Fred Goodwin".

:lol: Hattersley's still got a way with words hasn't he?

Clegg is talking a load of crap as usual and is an irrelevance anyway. :angry: Who cares what he says anyway. :wacko: Maggie was a great Prime Minister and probably the best we've ever had. Fully deserves her State Funeral when she dies. She put the "Great" back in to Britain.

Edited March 7, 200916 yr by Crazy Chris

Clegg is talking a load of crap as usual and is an irrelevance anyway. :angry: Who cares what he says anyway. :wacko: Maggie was a great Prime Minister and probably the best we've ever had. Fully deserves her State Funeral when she dies. She put the "Great" back in to Britain.

Talking crap...where exactly? It would be nice if you actually picked out parts where he's talking crap and answered them rather than dismissed it all...and if you read the article, you'd see that he's trying to build on the fact that not enough people trust Cameron yet, so he clearly isn't an irrelevance! :rolleyes:

 

Probably the best we've ever had? For what reasons? Yes, economic revival etc. etc., but you can't use that as an excuse for ignoring her hideous actions - after all (more extreme example, I know), a German couldn't exactly claim Hitler as Germany's greatest leader merely because he revived the nation so...surely Churchill or Attlee would be far greater candidates, considering the scale of change the latter (along with his party members) brought to the nation?

I will reply properly later and give my reasons for my Maggie support but I can't help but laugh at you being a Maggie fan Chris, she despised your type, to her you represented what was wrong about Britain so you supporting Maggie is like a turkey supporting Bernard Matthews, your type should hate her Chris

I will reply properly later and give my reasons for my Maggie support but I can't help but laugh at you being a Maggie fan Chris, she despised your type, to her you represented what was wrong about Britain so you supporting Maggie is like a turkey supporting Bernard Matthews, your type should hate her Chris

 

I agree.

 

My goodness I have frequently disagreed with your viewpoint on a number of different issues but I respect why you come to your conclusions and your beliefs.

 

One of the (few) good things that Thatcher's administration did do was cut back in real terms the amount spent on welfare benefits per claimant by means testing.

 

That is something that 12 years of New Labour have reversed. That is why I will probably with heavy heart be voting for a certain party for the first time in my life (as the Lib-Dems don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning my local seat) at the next General Election. This is helped by the fact that David Cameron is less of a fan of Thatcher than a certain "one eyed Scottish idiot". He is much more of a Robert Peel fan (ie. a socialist Conservative).

 

Clegg is talking a load of crap as usual and is an irrelevance anyway. :angry: Who cares what he says anyway. :wacko: Maggie was a great Prime Minister and probably the best we've ever had. Fully deserves her State Funeral when she dies. She put the "Great" back in to Britain.

I highly doubt it considering the Lib Dems will no doubt be the party courted when there isn't a big enough majority by one party.

For me, it is good to hear the Liberal Democrat leader actually speaking out (and talking sense). Could Clegg actually put the Lib Dems back on the map?

It's not as black-and-white as whether what Thatcher did was morally right or not; it's about whether there was a realistic alternative at the time. And I would definitely say that the Keynesian-type approach that had been used had become unfeasible by the early 80s - the economy had totally stagnated, and there did need to be some changes. It probably shouldn't have been so extreme, and I'm not really a fan of the "sink-or-swim" culture it created, but it does need to be recognised that the British economy would have been fundamentally damaged had there not been some kind of major change.

 

And I definitely reject Suedehead's implication that Thatcher should take more of the blame for the financial crisis than Brown - even if she laid the groundwork for it, Brown had 12 years with massive power to revert what she had done if he was so concerned. He would get slaughtered if he dared try to lay all the blame for what's happening now on someone who hasn't been in power for 20 years, and rightly so.

Edited March 7, 200916 yr by Danny

It's not as black-and-white as whether what Thatcher did was morally right or not; it's about whether there was a realistic alternative at the time. And I would definitely say that the Keynesian-type approach that had been used had become unfeasible by the early 80s - the economy had totally stagnated, and there did need to be some changes. It probably shouldn't have been so extreme, and I'm not really a fan of the "sink-or-swim" culture it created, but it does need to be recognised that the British economy would have been fundamentally damaged had there not been some kind of major change.

 

And I definitely reject Suedehead's implication that Thatcher should take more of the blame for the financial crisis than Brown - even if she laid the groundwork for it, Brown had 12 years with massive power to revert what she had done if he was so concerned. He would get slaughtered if he dared try to lay all the blame for what's happening now on someone who hasn't been in power for 20 years, and rightly so.

I agree that Brown should have tightened regulation but we all know that the howls of anguish from the Tories and their friends in the press would have been deafening. It's only now that they would have been able to say that they had been proved right.

Edited March 7, 200916 yr by Suedehead2

For me, it is good to hear the Liberal Democrat leader actually speaking out (and talking sense). Could Clegg actually put the Lib Dems back on the map?

I really hope so :(. I think when i turn 18 i'll be voting them, although i don't exactly know all too much about politics.

(...) lets hope things get better after 25 years and the chav culture can be changed for better...f*** Tatcher!

As someone who is currently studying to get a Masters degree in International Development, I can say clearly and frankly that Thatcher and Reagan are responsible for the deaths of millions of people in developing countries. They both hijacked the international financial institutions with their toxic "Washington Consensus" which created structural adjustment policies in the World Bank and IMF. Structural adjustment has failed MISERABLY and has been denounced by even the rightest of conservatives. Thatcher is a pathetic, miserable, disgusting creature who (with Ronald Reagan) put ideology above the ethics and all else... an ideology which has been proven time and time again to be false and wrong. Honestly, she and Reagan may be responsible for as many deaths of George Bush if not more...

Clegg is talking a load of crap as usual and is an irrelevance anyway. :angry: Who cares what he says anyway. :wacko: Maggie was a great Prime Minister and probably the best we've ever had. Fully deserves her State Funeral when she dies. She put the "Great" back in to Britain.

 

support your view with reasoned thought or get riddiculed again.

 

I agree.

 

My goodness I have frequently disagreed with your viewpoint on a number of different issues but I respect why you come to your conclusions and your beliefs.

 

EXACTLY. and thats how this forum should run.... people debating their points of view by reasoned thought and taking it on the chin when others dont agree. this is exactly what craig does and those moaning about 'not being allowed to express their opinion' should take note of craigs example.

 

As someone who is currently studying to get a Masters degree in International Development, I can say clearly and frankly that Thatcher and Reagan are responsible for the deaths of millions of people in developing countries. They both hijacked the international financial institutions with their toxic "Washington Consensus" which created structural adjustment policies in the World Bank and IMF. Structural adjustment has failed MISERABLY and has been denounced by even the rightest of conservatives. Thatcher is a pathetic, miserable, disgusting creature who (with Ronald Reagan) put ideology above the ethics and all else... an ideology which has been proven time and time again to be false and wrong. Honestly, she and Reagan may be responsible for as many deaths of George Bush if not more...

 

spot on..... one of the most insideous things she/they did was banning of certain work practices here, along with the production of various chemicals (pest killers, weed killers, insecticides) but go on to IMPORT said chemicals from third world countries.

oh..... and nick clegg is of course 100% correct.

Clegg is talking a load of crap as usual and is an irrelevance anyway. :angry: Who cares what he says anyway. :wacko: Maggie was a great Prime Minister and probably the best we've ever had. Fully deserves her State Funeral when she dies. She put the "Great" back in to Britain.

 

As usual, you prove what an utter JOKE you are... "put the Great back into Britain"...??? Where.....??? Oh, you mean the FALKLANDS???? Bollocks.... That was just a distraction, some bullsh"t war to take our minds away from the fact that she destroyed our manufacturing industries and get her a second term in office... Things were almost certainly NOT going well for Thatch when she first started out, people forget the deep recession that happened in the early 80s.. The Falklands was a pathetic, flag-waving, bullsh!t exercise in the worst kind of jingoism and patriotism....

 

State funeral..??? Fukk that... All she deserves is a body dump in a skip and taken to a fukkin landfill...... <_< If there is a state funeral for this evil, murdering b/itch, I'll be on the march of protest.....

 

she despised your type, to her you represented what was wrong about Britain so you supporting Maggie is like a turkey supporting Bernard Matthews, your type should hate her Chris

 

She created people like Chris mate.... There was no such bloody thing as life-long 'dole scroungers' or career, chav single mothers who have about umpteen kids with different partners before she got into power.... Yeah, she may hate people such as Chris, but, at the end of the day, she was the midwife for all this sh!t that's wrong in our society....

 

I agree with Danny that Gordon Brown/Nu Labor did absolutely bugger all to reverse the rot she started, but SHE started it, she destroyed the aspirations and self-worth of an entire generation of people in this country... Working Class people had very good reasons to hope for the future in the 50s, 60s and 70s, and the lie that Britain was somehow brought down SOLELY by the unions is just that - a LIE, it was more down the incompetency and stupidity of managers and executives, the very same sorts of fukkin' managers and executives who have destroyed this country in the 00s through their own greed and lust for power, heh, these c/unts cant blame the unions anymore can they....? :rolleyes: Read "The British Worker Question" by Professor Theo Nichols, written in 1986, it actually tells the something that's more like the truth, unlike the propaganda propogated by the neo-liberals/Thatcherites, the tabloid media and Conservative central office.....

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pPINAAA...result#PPA34,M1

 

You know what I find amusing....? All this sh!te that was talked about the "brain drain" and how we somehow had to accept these people like Fred Goodman "earning" loadsamoney because then they would all leave the country and go elsewhere... Well, sorry, but I wish they HAD just buggered off and left frankly, and fukked up someone else's country..... :rolleyes: