I don't think it is helpful to anyone to claim that only one side had bad apples.

 

It is true that most of the violent disorder came from the far-right EDL types who used this situation for their own racist agenda. The police are right to arrest and deal with them thoroughly.

 

It is also not helpful for our fearful London Jewish community to say there were no problems at the Palestine march. Of course the majority of people were peaceful but 150 protesters had to held by police for attacking them with fireworks. There are pictures all over the internet of antisemitic posters, with the Star of David turned into a swastika, Jews and Western leaders depicted as devils with horns and chants from the crowd to destroy Israel. Also some protesters going outside a synagogue and letting off flairs and Jewish people being subjected to "Death to all the Jews" shouted at them in the middle of Waterloo station.

 

To deny these things happened, just because they were in the minority, is not helpful. You downplay real antisemitism. If your protest is really about human rights and doing the right thing, you should be calling out antisemitism and not standing alongside these kind of things without challenging it. Even if you are not holding these signs yourselves, if you are fine with walking beside them without saying a single thing, you are part of the problem.

The majority of people arrested yesterday were right wing nutjobs protesting g near the Cenotaph. That is despite the fact that the peace marchers overwhelmed them by a huge margin. Well over 99% of the peace protesters marched peacefully and caused no trouble. The same cannot be said of the counter-protesters near the Cenotaph. The latter group are the ones who showed a total lack of respect on a solemn weekend.

 

Stop confusing him with facts SH 😅

I don't think it is helpful to anyone to claim that only one side had bad apples.

 

It is true that most of the violent disorder came from the far-right EDL types who used this situation for their own racist agenda. The police are right to arrest and deal with them thoroughly.

 

It is also not helpful for our fearful London Jewish community to say there were no problems at the Palestine march. Of course the majority of people were peaceful but 150 protesters had to held by police for attacking them with fireworks. There are pictures all over the internet of antisemitic posters, with the Star of David turned into a swastika, Jews and Western leaders depicted as devils with horns and chants from the crowd to destroy Israel. Also some protesters going outside a synagogue and letting off flairs and Jewish people being subjected to "Death to all the Jews" shouted at them in the middle of Waterloo station.

 

To deny these things happened, just because they were in the minority, is not helpful. You downplay real antisemitism. If your protest is really about human rights and doing the right thing, you should be calling out antisemitism and not standing alongside these kind of things without challenging it. Even if you are not holding these signs yourselves, if you are fine with walking beside them without saying a single thing, you are part of the problem.

 

It's also exponentially less helpful to spuriously claim as a certain other poster is doing, that it was a protest of hate.

 

I don't think anyone here is claiming that it was entirely trouble-free. But let's keep this in the wider context of what this march stands for when evaluating what's helpful.

 

Consider that almost certainly the vast majority of people in that march are decent, ordinary people, appalled that our government is tacitly supporting genocidal actions from a foreign government, Israel, towards another people, Palestinians. That's why most of them were there. Then consider the numbers involved. Hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom would not have seen anything untoward in the march. Those isolated incidents are just that. From reports, it would be generous to suggest that even 1% of the march were being antisemitic. Compare that to almost all of the counter-protesters that we know were there getting involved with police and disrupting the Cenotaph in exactly the same way that the former Home Secretary had insinuated a peaceful protest would, and it's quite easy to take a look at that and say that obviously the far right thugs are less sympathetic. Doesn't mean that those antisemitic people on the march can be excused, but MOST of the people marching for the Palestinian cause were entirely fine and their cause is the right and just one, asking to stop people from being killed. If the march was demanding a pogrom then I would say so and I would call it out. But I just don't see any widespread risk of that.

 

I get that Jews may be feeling uncomfortable and I dearly wish that the Israeli government wasn't doing what it is doing, because its actions are causing people to conflate Israel with Jewish people. Which means unfortunately that these antisemitic elements will exist in small amounts when people come together to criticise Israel on a wider scale. There's little anyone can individually do about that when a protest has to have huge numbers to be noticed, you just have to hope that law enforcement will deal with those people and it seems as though they are looking to identify the troublemakers there. And consider also that Palestinians and Muslims more generally will also be feeling very uncomfortable that their relatives or countrymen or fellow believers are being murdered by a foreign government and the British government is supporting it, while also making them out to be hateful when marching to demand that the government change its view.

I don’t think anyone here has downplayed antisemitism. I criticised Braverman for saying the protest was ‘full of hate’ when we know that though there was antisemitism present, it was largely protesters for peace, if anyone is aiming it at me.

He has always been antisemitic, so I'm not surprised that he supports a terror organisation. Could he stoop any lower? I guess not.

 

@1724185959128772972

 

@1724169911415504901

Edited November 13, 20231 yr by Voodoo

People on here just refuse to open their eyes. The truth is out there.

 

Peaceful protest? What a sad joke. It was a "protest" full of HATE.

There were hundreds of thousands of marchers on Saturday. Inevitably, there were a few idiots, including those displaying vile anti-semitic slogans. Those few idiots were not representative of the vast majority.

^ IMO, they are more than representative.

 

__________________________

 

Very much on point. :kink:

 

@1724540024849342695

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by Voodoo

^ IMO, they are more than representative.

 

__________________________

 

Very much on point. :kink:

 

@1724540024849342695

 

So basically there’s a few repeated Twitter posts stating there were maybe certain few incidents of antisemetism on the March and you chose to believe they are all like that or that is the majority?

Edited November 15, 20231 yr by steve201

So you tar everyone with the same brush? If a minority on the March (130 arrests out of 300,000 strong marchers) then the majority are protesting about the genocide in Palestine. I don’t take the arguement that you don’t March beside this minority or you call them out - east to say on a social forum like this maybe a bit harder to do in real life and that doesn’t mean you aren’t going to March if you are passionate about the real reason for the marches.

 

 

Reminder, and those involved know who they are, once again, that moderators are watching this topic and will delete posts, including content that is shared within those posts, if they cross the line.

My post was deleted?

 

It wasn’t my intention, it’s just a frustrating thread.

Edited November 15, 20231 yr by blacksquare

My post was deleted?

 

It wasn’t my intention, it’s just a frustrating thread.

 

Only because we deleted the post that you were referring to (sorry, it was a good point but lacks the context now).

 

and that post was deleted because it was reposted after being deleted once.

^ IMO, they are more than representative.

 

__________________________

Would you care to back up your assertion with some evidence?

Would you care to back up your assertion with some evidence?

You are welcome to ask each and every one of the participants.

 

I didn't see one participant who condemned the hate.

Were you there?

You are welcome to ask each and every one of the participants.

 

I didn't see one participant who condemned the hate.

 

Of course you didn’t, but then it’s often difficult to find something if you don’t want to see it. It’d ruin your biased narrative.

Hard watching the Ch4 News tonight with images of premature babies all lying on one incubator crying because the energy has gone on the hospital.

Encouraging news (in as much as there is encouraging news about this conflict) in that a pause in fighting has started and both Israel and Hamas are releasing prisoners/hostages to the other side. Hopefully a pause that will become more permanent but I'm not expecting it yet.

It's been extended by 2 days although even if no more Israeli attacks were done the horrific loss of life and carnage in Gaza is just a tragedy.

 

There was a big 'March Against Anti Semetism' yesterday which in reality for the most part was an Israel propaganda rally with lots of Israeli flags. There's no acknowledgement of the huge loss of Palestinian life, rightly condemned by the UN and most NGOs as textbook genocide by the Campaign against Anti Semetism, the head of the Holocaust education Trust, most of our front bench politicians on both sides and most of our ghastly media. I feel like I'm living in a horrible world where the highest people in our society blatantly ignore elephants in room (see also Climate Emergency)

Meanwhile the police has arrested Jason Eaton, shooter of the 3 Palestinian students in Vermont, US.