In my mind there are two charts, one made up with hyped streaming tracks that don't reflect what people pay for - and can be weighted arbitrarily whatever way the streaming companies whinge (see American chart make-up recently) and actual paid-for records.

 

The only All-time chart that will count is sales. Sales are not in crisis, there were 2 million sellers, and historically they are still quite high - just not as high as they were when they peaked. The sales top 100 is more "accurate" to me than the Radio 100, which adds in how many times people have listened to some of the bigger media hits, not how many people actually chose to buy it, for whatever reason. The million-sellers club can only ever use sales or there is no level-playing field. If sales ever drop to catastrophic levels, say 10000 a week for a number one and for only short sales periods (see mid 2000's) then there might be an argument that sales are dead forever and forever will remain - and then streaming data becomes important.

 

Sales are down around 12% YoY- you are right however, it is hardly catastrophic. Plus we had two 2 million sellers in 2014! John Legend almost got there as well to make 3. These sales are similar to 2011 when "Party Rock Anthem" was the YE #3 with 995K.

So, in conclusion we now have the Y/E chart- good news

 

Version 1- Sales only

Version 2- sales + Streaming since its inclusion in June (as broadcast yesterday)

Version 3- sales + streams since January this year (as provided to Charts+ and shown in Vidcapper's thread and until this week the one the OCC were implicitly sticking to as it was providing them weekly to a paid subscriber)

 

Sorry I'm saying all this for the sake of my own sanity!

So, in conclusion we now have the Y/E chart- good news

 

Version 1- Sales only

Version 2- sales + Streaming since its inclusion in June (as broadcast yesterday)

Version 3- sales + streams since January this year (as provided to Charts+ and shown in Vidcapper's thread and until this week the one the OCC were implicitly sticking to as it was providing them weekly to a paid subscriber)

 

Sorry I'm saying all this for the sake of my own sanity!

It's just a shame that the one they sent to the BBC was the one that made least sense :(

Thanks for that Dasher, makes it much clearer. At least they have published a sales only one as well. Next year will be much easier with streaming being included from the get go.

Thanks for everyone involved in the thread. Great job!

So, in conclusion we now have the Y/E chart- good news

 

Version 1- Sales only

Version 2- sales + Streaming since its inclusion in June (as broadcast yesterday)

Version 3- sales + streams since January this year (as provided to Charts+ and shown in Vidcapper's thread and until this week the one the OCC were implicitly sticking to as it was providing them weekly to a paid subscriber)

 

Sorry I'm saying all this for the sake of my own sanity!

So which one is the 'official' real one? The one that makes sense to be would be version 2, but i'm not sure common sense is a factor…..!

I don't know maybe two EOY charts (Even though they technically won't be end of year :unsure: :lol:)

• Jan-June (sales)
• Full Year (sales)
• Full Year (comb)
• June-Dec (sales)
• June-Dec (comb)
• Or just accept putting streaming in mid-year was a bad decision and hence the 2014 EOY is a mess :lol:

So which one is the 'official' real one? The one that makes sense to be would be version 2, but i'm not sure common sense is a factor…..!

Answers on a postcard........

 

I'm no happier about the inclusion of streaming than anyone else but now it has happened the OCC need to fully embrace it or abandon it. So if the weekly tallies they give us include streaming then they need to keep this for the million sellers/ all time list as annoying as some find it. Also they need to stop producing a "sales" chart, this will also anger chart purists (of which I'm one) as it serves no real purpose, this half way house they have adopted just leaves us in a quandary over several lists- just produce one.

 

I was under the impression that the streaming issue would be backdated to January to create a level playing field over the course of the year and that therefore the chart produced at the end would be fair. Charts+ are given their info by the OCC (this is the chart Vidcapper uses weekly I believe) so all this contradictory info is being given by the OCC but I believe this is the one that is the correct one given that this tallies with the information given by the OCC throughout the year about various tracks tallies.

 

Answer in short- Version 3 (but that's just my opinion) :D

 

 

Answers on a postcard........

 

I'm no happier about the inclusion of streaming than anyone else but now it has happened the OCC need to fully embrace it or abandon it. So if the weekly tallies they give us include streaming then they need to keep this for the million sellers/ all time list as annoying as some find it. Also they need to stop producing a "sales" chart, this will also anger chart purists (of which I'm one) as it serves no real purpose, this half way house they have adopted just leaves us in a quandary over several lists- just produce one.

 

I was under the impression that the streaming issue would be backdated to January to create a level playing field over the course of the year and that therefore the chart produced at the end would be fair. Charts+ are given their info by the OCC (this is the chart Vidcapper uses weekly I believe) so all this contradictory info is being given by the OCC but I believe this is the one that is the correct one given that this tallies with the information given by the OCC throughout the year about various tracks tallies.

 

Answer in short- Version 3 (but that's just my opinion) :D

 

I'm just going to agree with everything you said, and opt for Version 3 as well, in the end last year's YTD (2014) is a complete mess.

 

I just hope they don't do the same to the album chart :lol:

Adding streaming was too risky because streams and sales aren't the same thing. I do not care that streaming has become more popular or that people are downloading less. They are not the same and are 2 completely different ways of consuming music and should have been kept as separate charts. Whether the streaming chart would one day become more relevant than the sales one is an entirely different issue. It isn't like when we were waiting for downloads to be included. The charts were way too slow to begin with and streaming has made it more stale. And now the OCC is flip flopping about what does and doesn't count. It wasn't thought through enough.

 

Personally I would count the Radio 1 chart as the official one. That is because I have even led to believe it is representative of the charts before and after streaming was added. But who knows?

the official chart to me is the sales chart because I have only ever been enthusiastic about sales charts, not charts made up of agglomerations of data, from whatever source, they are of passing interest not passion.

 

The sales charts weekly continue to be more interesting than the broadcast charts, and the year-end sales chart is more interesting than the Radio 1 version (or any other version). For that reason, I will continue to not give a rats arse about the chart positions amended by the tedious passive streaming chart. I prefer active music buying charts and there's no good reason not to publish it as long as they include sales data in the charts. Anyone who's not interested in what singles people are buying can just ignore it... B-)

Slightly off topic but anyone else think the 100:1 streams thing should be increased to 150 or 200? The charts are just too generous to over streamers and cruel to ones who do poorly or don't stream at all :(

I really don't see it changing. As streaming becomes bigger, it'll have more of an influence on the chart - end of discussion.

I really don't see it changing. As streaming becomes bigger, it'll have more of an influence on the chart - end of discussion.

 

It can't change. What's done is done, I just still disagree with it.

Slightly off topic but anyone else think the 100:1 streams thing should be increased to 150 or 200? The charts are just too generous to over streamers and cruel to ones who do poorly or don't stream at all :(

 

Personally I don't think streams should count at all but if they do have to count the number of streams per sale should be increased.

The only thing I disagree with is that paid for streams are weighted the same as free streams when free streams bring in less money. Otherwise the inclusion of streams is the correct decision as it is increasingly the way people get music.

The only thing I disagree with is that paid for streams are weighted the same as free streams when free streams bring in less money. Otherwise the inclusion of streams is the correct decision as it is increasingly the way people get music.

 

The revenue for each stream, whether you are a subscriber or not, is exactly the same.

Anyway peeps let's not turn this into another streams/ sales debate. The thread is almost at a thousand replies so it will be closed to keep the forum running smoothly. Hopefully we'll get a definitive answer to the right Y/E chart.