The allegations of Jess Phillips being a TERF seem to come from this Twitter thread, of her supporting a group called Woman's Place UK who apparently have used transphobic dogwhistles, and Jess not directly answering when being questioned if she thinks trans women are women.

 

https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/931093574011191296

 

She's also been accused of 'laughing at men's suicide' (which I'm certain is a gross misinterpretation, and she has denied that, I'm sure she's just a very strong feminist but that's being twisted to her being against men, but this idea seems to have been pretty pervasive).

Oh eek. I didn't want to get sucked in because I thought it was the "woke" brigade making a mountain out of a molehill but the fact that she didn't at least say after that that yes trans women are women is concerning. She has been one of the voices fighting against the anti LGBT+ activists who protested inclusive education in schools, so I didn't want to be disappointed in thinking she'd be a great Labour leader when her name came up :(

 

The latter I have seen about, to me that came across as her thinking International Men's Day was a joke (making a good point about the fact that her being the only woman on a panel, feeling like every day is Men's Day) but to do that when Phillip Davies was bringing in up in tandem with the issue of rising male suicide was really not the time. I agree with Rooney she's a hothead which can be a good and bad quality, as a potential leader it could be her making or her downfall.

 

You are right though, the shit flinging before anything has even begun may not be a great sign for when things ramp up! :lol:

The problem I have is that Keir Starmer is possibly the best fit of a leader for me, and the most excited I would be for a leader since I became interested in politics and possibly the first I could strongly get behind. However, I appreciate he may not be the best fit in terms of getting the public/traditional labour voters back as a whole due to his strong remain stance (which he really puts across so eloquently but even if he ditches it, it will come back to bite him by the media) and he may solidify that divide between the city votes and the working class town votes.

Emily Thornberry now in. I expect predictable sneering from the right as she's everything they find annoying about Labour-in-London-and-elitist in one. I think she's a great voice on her own and I like her a lot, but aside from being a woman (which is only a mentionable positive because it nullifies for good the Tory attack line of 'only major party to have never had a female leader'), everything she can do, Starmer can do better and without people from the north despising the new leader from the get go.

I love Emily a lot, but it really cannot be her.

Emily said this in 2013 on Question Time:

 

 

Jeremy Corbyn’s Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry has been dragged into the row over Boris Johnson’s controversial comments about Muslim women, after it emerged she told a television audience: “I wouldn’t want my four year old looked after by somebody wearing a burka – I wouldn’t want my elderly mum looked after by somebody wearing a burka."

 

"They need to be able to show their face,” she told BBC1’s Question Time in November 2013, during a discussion on whether the burka should be banned as she sat next to then Ukip leader Nigel Farage on the panel.

 

Ms Thornberry said that it was “really important” that in court cases juries get the opportunity to “assess people.” She added that with “certain careers” it was also important to for people's faces to be visible.

The problem I have is that Keir Starmer is possibly the best fit of a leader for me, and the most excited I would be for a leader since I became interested in politics and possibly the first I could strongly get behind. However, I appreciate he may not be the best fit in terms of getting the public/traditional labour voters back as a whole due to his strong remain stance (which he really puts across so eloquently but even if he ditches it, it will come back to bite him by the media) and he may solidify that divide between the city votes and the working class town votes.

 

I'm not entirely sure his remain position will be that much of an issue in five years, especially if Brexit fails to live up to expectations. It could end up benefiting him.

 

Unrelated (somewhat) but why are we all suddenly pretending that a future PM needs to be working-class themselves? I even fell into the trap of thinking Labour must choose a working-class Northerner. Johnson certainly isn't.

I don’t think being working class should be an essential requirement, similarly to how I don’t think it must be a woman. However, I think it could help as Labour are currently excelling in cities (but as we’ve also seem with Brexit), that perhaps somehow enforces an idea of it being the establishment/elite even though the reality is that there’s sort of an upper layer above that which involved Johnson, Mogg, Goldsmith etc. I think a working class leader may help dispel that myth and ensure someone is more ‘in touch’ with the local communities. We’re sort of seeing cities v towns and particularly London v everywhere else.

If Labour are trying to appeal to less middle-class voters, it would be surprising for them to have as a leader someone who was literally sacked from the Shadow Cabinet for sneering at the working classes. But apparently a lot of people consider her to be fun, and the Labour membership post-2015 might have got to like her more over the years, so you never know.

 

Conor McGinn is apparently considering running for the Deputy Leadership, so will be interesting to see if that pans out.

@1207061650450403334

 

Well, he’s definitely going for it then.

 

After reading this (and with the knowledge that Rayner doesn't seem interested in running for leader) I'm feeling like Starmer is probably the most reasonable choice, and the most likely to be able to mend the divide between the leftists and the centrists in the party.

 

For what it's worth he's also back to being the favourite to win with some of the bookies.

I'd back him. I still feel Rayner is their absolute best choice and that they could really do with a female leader, but I dont feel any other female candidate is as good as he is (except maybe Dawn Butler if she went for it).

Yeah if Rayner's not standing for leader then think Starmer's their best bet. Bookies have RLB as favourite now though. My feeling is they'll make a mistake again and go for her and Rayner.

Edited December 19, 20195 yr by Crazy Chris-tmas

They need to try and persuade at least one other man to stand. It wouldn't look good if Keir Starmer wins otherwise made up entirely of women. It shouldn't be relevant, but it would reinforce some people's perception of the party.

 

If Starmer does win (and Johnson is still PM going in to the next election), I suspect there will be no leaders' debates. Starmer would hammer Johnson in such a debate in a way that Corbyn could not. It also wouldn't surprise me if Starmer made it very clear at the start of the campaign that he would be doing an interview with Andrew Neil (or an equivalent if Neil has retired) regardless of whether Johnson did so.

Clive Lewis has already confirmed he's standing so there is at least one other man.

If Rayner is not going to stand then I have come round to the fact Starmer could be a decent leader - he's a former human rights lawyer which would be perfect to forensically take apart Johnsons lies in parliament. One thing I would say is that Starmer is far from a leftist candidate intact he would be exactly like Blair imo but then again at least he stood alongside the current leader when many others wouldn't.

 

One downside is that they do need a woman leader which he is not. But the candidates aren't good enough for me other than Rayner so why have a woman leader if they don't Fit the bill on this occasion just to make a point?

 

I like Lewis but he's not a leader and I like Thornbury as she's charismatic but she has history with her comments about the old labour right. I also think she is a political chameleon in terms of the fact she was a blairite earlier in the decade and became a Corbynista in the last four years.

 

I'm also coming around to the idea of (Sir) Keir Starmer, with the lack of any other decent potential contenders at the moment. I think he is generally on board with the platform as laid out post-2015, the policies and the party movement and is certainly a strong performer in the House of Commons.

Clive Lewis throws his hat in the ring...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-78...party-left.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/d...o-unleash-party

 

I'm sure he'll have full support from the party - the *Tory* party, that is... :lol:

Edited December 20, 20195 yr by vidsanta

My two cents having been away for a few days..

 

The best option(IMO) is Starmer.

 

True, it definitely wouldn't hurt Labour to finally get rid of the "only party not to have had a female leader" tag, but now more than ever it's so important that they select the best available option rather than just selecting a woman for the sake of it. At the end of the day the press are going to pick apart whoever Labout chooses.

 

Having said that I would have been totally fine with Angela Rayner but as has been mentioned she has ruled her self out and thrown her support to Long Bailey(who really doesn't represent direction that Labour need to be going in right now in my opinion).

 

Returning to the Blair years isn't the answer, different time, different electorate, but they need a unifying leader who can bring both sides of the party together. I think the best person to do that is Starmer.

 

In hindsight I think one of the things that really hurt them last week was Corbyns lack of certainty(especially concerning you know what - the whole "neutral stance" thing probably didn't sound very unconvincing to people who are sick of hearing about it constantly for the last three years and in their minds just want it "done").

 

I don't anticipate Labour having a realistic shot at getting back into power until 2029, but if they make the right choice here, show a unified stance and offer some certainty to the electorate, then hopefully they can make in roads, and gain back those lost seats lost in North.

 

I fear however, they will go with Rebecca Long Bailey, who would set them back even further.

Edited December 20, 20195 yr by mald487

Clive Lewis throws his hat in the ring...

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-78...party-left.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/d...o-unleash-party

 

I'm sure he'll have full support from the party - the *Tory* party, that is... :lol:

 

That Mail article is so biased lol

That Mail article is so biased lol

 

If I can, I include the Guardian's article, as if I include just the Mail, I know only Chris will read it... :P

Lol

 

I didn't think the guardian was as biased until I seen how they treated Corbyn! Now I read the morning star 😉