No such thing as an English government.

And yes this is really starting to gain sustainable momentum. Self-determination is a right enshrined in international law and something that the UK Gov screams about for Gibraltar and Falklands so has no legal moral or ethical grounds to prevent Scotland having the same right.

 

I used the word 'English government' on purpose to highlight what it stands for and is dominated by.

People saying NI will be reunited with the rest of the island - I mean Im all for that as a republican but if there was any move for a border poll Im not sure what political forces that would unleash. There would be renewed paramilitary activity and potential civil war so Im not sure it will happen. There will be a natural reunification of the island at a undesignated date in the future when all people who remember the troubles fade from the scene and the north remains in the EU as is planned.

 

Heck I can see there being pickets by loyalists due to border in the irish sea next year.

People saying NI will be reunited with the rest of the island - I mean Im all for that as a republican but if there was any move for a border poll Im not sure what political forces that would unleash. There would be renewed paramilitary activity and potential civil war so Im not sure it will happen. There will be a natural reunification of the island at a undesignated date in the future when all people who remember the troubles fade from the scene and the north remains in the EU as is planned.

 

Heck I can see there being pickets by loyalists due to border in the irish sea next year.

 

Boris' ‘Oven Ready’ deal that he signed off on after his MASSIVE mandate from the British gammons has effectively made Northern Ireland separate to the rest of the UK, so yes, I can see that happening in the 2020s.

I don't believe this to be true at all. You will find similar traits in a lot of other countries and in the main, it is a very, very small minority. A large part of the problem in England is the fascination with World War 2. Many of the baby boomers actually think they fought in the war. As a country unfortunately, especially in my entire lifetime a lot of our opinions on the world were given to us through Rupert Murdoch and only a few forms of media.

 

But Rooney, over half of the population voted for Brexit. The Tories won an 80 seat majority on an empty, three word slogan manifesto veiledly just being about crushing the libs. Near half of the population still, in the face of all evidence otherwise, insist that Brexit will only be a good thing, that there's no way it can't be, that those questioning that narrative are traitors and just want to drag Britain down because they don't believe in the British people enough.

 

Those people that believe those things exist and walk among us - and exist in large enough numbers to sway policy and election results.

To be fair, right wing parties with nationalist rhetoric are doing well almost everywhere right? It's not a uniquely British problem, not like me to defend England lol but it's a Europe-wide problem.

 

79% Yes support amongst under 25s in that poll.

 

Lmao.

I'm not complaining but that seems weird to me, as the mood amongst my peers is about 2/3 anti-Indy (pro EU as well though). I do live in a Seat that voted 64% No though so shrug :lol:

But Rooney, over half of the population voted for Brexit. The Tories won an 80 seat majority on an empty, three word slogan manifesto veiledly just being about crushing the libs. Near half of the population still, in the face of all evidence otherwise, insist that Brexit will only be a good thing, that there's no way it can't be, that those questioning that narrative are traitors and just want to drag Britain down because they don't believe in the British people enough.

 

Those people that believe those things exist and walk among us - and exist in large enough numbers to sway policy and election results.

 

That doesn’t make England full of angry people though because we had an 80 seat Conservative majority. If the left side of the spectrum had bothered to work together in any shape possible they could have easily eaten in to that 80 seat majority. Brexit is an enigma because people had no idea what they were voting for. We won’t get in to that debate as it’s been done to death but if the vote was re-done in 2019, Remain would have won quite comfortably.

 

If lots of other European countries had a referendum you would begin to see the same fractions. We have swarms of the country and especially the North which has been abused over the best part of 30 years from both the Conservative and Labour Governments in favour of London. It’s why these replaces will be even more hard-hit after Covid-19 and why Conservatives are making gains in Red Wall seats. So much has been taken away from the towns and nothing has been replaced.

 

Brexit makes me sad as it has entirely changed our political structure for a generation, but the truth is it has been bubbling up for some time and unfortunately like most things, if you have money you can influence people to suit your financial and political gain.

Scottish Parliament poll, via YouGov, 6-10 August (changes since 24-27 April):

 

[FPTP]

SNP 57% (+3)

CON 20% (-3)

LAB 14% (+2)

LD 6% (-2)

 

[PR]

SNP 47% (+3)

CON 21% (-)

LAB 14% (+2)

GRN 6% (-2)

LD 6% (-1)

 

[seat estimate]

SNP 74 (+4)

CON 29 (-1)

LAB 18 (+5)

LD 5 (-1)

GRN 3 (-7)

 

 

 

Scottish voting intention for UK Parliament elections, via YouGov, 6-10 August (changes since 24-27 April):

 

SNP: 54% (+3)

CON: 20% (-5)

LAB: 16% (+1)

LD: 5% (-1)

GRN: 2% (-)

BXP: 2% (+2)

 

[seat estimate]

SNP: 58 (+4)

LAB: 1 (-)

CON: 0 (-3)

LD: 0 (-1)

 

58 seats. :lol:

 

79% Yes support amongst under 25s in that poll.

 

Lmao.

 

Going off on a tangent here but did you see the Survation poll that had a lead for Labour of 4 pts for everyone under 65, but a 46 pts lead for the Tories in the >65 category?!!

The increased support for indy is lovely, but I can't help but worry it's all meaningless. Bojo has no reason to budge on Section 30, his 80 seat majority only includes 6 Scottish seats. I know he has no principles but i can't see him wanting there to even be the possibility of him being known as the PM who ended the union (ironically half of Tory voters would vote for England to be independent :'))

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by Andrew.

The increased support for indy is lovely, but I can't help but worry it's all meaningless. Bojo has no reason to budge on Section 30, his 80 seat majority only includes 6 Scottish seats. I know he has no principles but i can't see him wanting there to even be the possibility of him being known as the PM who ended the union (ironically half of Tory voters would vote for England to be independent :'))

 

It just won’t happen under this current Conservative government. There will certainly be another one but you’ve seen how stubborn this Government can be. They’re not going to give Scotland a referendum so soon after a previous one. Few reasons, a few which I agree with and a few which I find illogical. I know there are many Scottish nationals on here who want another vote, but you’ve also got to think if you did gain independence under this current Government it would be the most painful breakup you could imagine. They’d do all sorts, probably some cheap trick with the Sterling.

 

I think what’s more likely is Labour offering a referendum on their manifesto for 2024 as a way to try and eat in to the Scottish Parliament votes.

The thing is that's one thing that winds me up most, it's only 6 years since the last vote but the change since then has been generational in such a way that another vote is definately legitimate.

Scottish Parliament poll, via YouGov, 6-10 August (changes since 24-27 April):

 

[FPTP]

SNP 57% (+3)

CON 20% (-3)

LAB 14% (+2)

LD 6% (-2)

 

[PR]

SNP 47% (+3)

CON 21% (-)

LAB 14% (+2)

GRN 6% (-2)

LD 6% (-1)

 

[seat estimate]

SNP 74 (+4)

CON 29 (-1)

LAB 18 (+5)

LD 5 (-1)

GRN 3 (-7)

Scottish voting intention for UK Parliament elections, via YouGov, 6-10 August (changes since 24-27 April):

 

SNP: 54% (+3)

CON: 20% (-5)

LAB: 16% (+1)

LD: 5% (-1)

GRN: 2% (-)

BXP: 2% (+2)

 

[seat estimate]

SNP: 58 (+4)

LAB: 1 (-)

CON: 0 (-3)

LD: 0 (-1)

 

58 seats. :lol:

Going off on a tangent here but did you see the Survation poll that had a lead for Labour of 4 pts for everyone under 65, but a 46 pts lead for the Tories in the >65 category?!!

That Ian f***ing Murray seat. The mans like Teflon. 6% on the uk wide poll and that seat still stays red

The thing is that's one thing that winds me up most, it's only 6 years since the last vote but the change since then has been generational in such a way that another vote is definately legitimate.

 

While I do not disagree with this, the problem is it sets a precedent for any referendums in the future. While I was in huge favour a 2nd Referendum for a vote, I do think there needs to be some agreement for any referendum going forward that there is period of X years where it is agreed there cannot be another.

While I do not disagree with this, the problem is it sets a precedent for any referendums in the future. While I was in huge favour a 2nd Referendum for a vote, I do think there needs to be some agreement for any referendum going forward that there is period of X years where it is agreed there cannot be another.

There is one in the Anglo-Irish agreement governing any poll on a united Ireland. From memory, it is seven years so Scotland will have passed that in just over a year's time. The UK government's justification for blocking a second independence referendum gets weaker by the day.

Yes it is 7 years in the Good Friday Agreement. I believe this is what was judged to be a “political generation”.

7 years isn't just a random figure political changes can happen at any pace such as 2 years after the first referendum so on both counts another referendum should happen sooner rather than later.

That Ian f***ing Murray seat. The mans like Teflon. 6% on the uk wide poll and that seat still stays red

Fascinated that Scottish Labour's one heartland is now.... Morningside.

So the SNP announced the programme for the Scottish government yesterday and although there were many priorities I've the next few years including the covid response the British media decided to play the conservative and unionist game by highlighting one point in particular regarding putting forth a debate for a second independence referendum.

Are you surprised? Unionist media only cares about upholding the failing british state and an #SNPBad narrative.

 

 

I can't wait for the date to be set and for us to smash May 2021 on the explicit platform of IndyRef2 on XYZ date.

Fingers crossed, seen Lord Finkelstein on Politics Live today trying to create a debate to change the eligibility criteria for any vote the snake!

Yeah Gove started that off a couple of weeks ago. They seem to have moved on from trying to stop it to trying to tilt the stage in their favour. The franchise is devolved to Scotland so they can say what they want but it'll be set as the same franchise as the last one. Thats the fairest way forwards and open to no challenges of vote rigging (which is what the tories are currently attempting)

 

They're scared shitless of the polling showing that it will actually happen this time.