I think ACR does its job in keeping songs sticking around too long, and the 3 year rule should be scrapped.

Maybe the 3 year rule is about to be scrapped in July and they're relaxing it early as this is a high profile case? Pure speculation, but they did similar in 2006 when Fairytale Of New York climbed to #6 while, by the letter of the rules then in place, it should have been turfed out of the chart as it reached 52 weeks since its 2005 physical (re)release, but they scrapped that rule a fortnight later anyway.

 

I'm still not clear which part of the existing rules they've broken for Kate's song that they haven't already done for countless >3 year old songs - whereabouts in the ruling does it say the song needs to have never previously charted? Either way, it makes sense to reset it in this instance.

Totally right to reset it - the fact there is the ACR rule in place to keep the charts fresh would have in turn kept a single at #1 for an 11th week and prevented an artist returning to the Top 40 for the first time in 17 years and first #1 in 30+ years.

 

I get they don’t want 100 week running Top 10 hits but there are less savage rules they could have rather than just halving sales, as mentioned before the charts are just fanfiction at the moment - Kate had the biggest consumed song in the UK last week but was #2, the charts are meant to show popularity.

Yes I think it was right to reset it, but I really think that the OCC should amend the rules about 3+ years, this shouldn't end up being the exception to the rule.

Yeah I can get behind it if it's a first case of a future standard, but if it's just an isolated incident, it's really dumb and undermines the chart's whole purpose by presenting the misleading/inaccurate statement that Kate Bush climbed from #2 to #1 this coming week. Mind you, ACR also does this on a regular basis.

massive no tbh

it's the most popular record around right now whatever way you measure it so yes it should be re-set. Old records often used to get reissued and go to number one because THEY WERE THE MOST POPULAR RECORD THAT WEEK.

 

The attention should be focused on not counting album plays as single track plays, the least-played track on an album should be the baseline sale to remove from all the other tracks on the album, anything above that is a single track sale for any other track. That'll reduce stupid album invasions in the singles chart. And if you are going to say repeat plays of a track is the way you measure chart popularity, then so be it, they get long runs. Making up rules to stop oldies hanging around is just arbitrary and makes the chart not an accurate reflection of anything much, it's a chart of most-played tracks for 10 weeks interrupted by arbitrary tracks older than 10 weeks sprinkled here and there.

 

Much as I still prefer the sales chart, however low the sales, I think sudden drops of blatantly popular records is just silly and artists are already getting round the rules by bunging out new versions, timing album drops and so on to boost "sales" at the right moment, so really what is the point of it?

A hard no from me. But I'm the camp the rule should never have existed in the first place.

 

It's a sexist rule, made to put Mariah "in her place". Disgusting!! REMOVE SEXIST ACR RIGHT NOW!!! Without it, we would have had a Sam Ryder Eurovision no.1 too!!

ACR had nothing to do with Sam Ryder missing number one. he only missed out cos of Harry’s CDs convieniently being timed for that week.

I'm still not clear which part of the existing rules they've broken for Kate's song that they haven't already done for countless >3 year old songs - whereabouts in the ruling does it say the song needs to have never previously charted? Either way, it makes sense to reset it in this instance.

 

You are right that wasn't ever part of the rule, it's just that in practice they never had given a reset to a 3+ year old song that had already been a hit before (and it initially looked like they weren't going to here either hence it being noteworthy that they suddenly changed their mind).

 

The exception has always been for songs being 'actively promoted' but the fact they denied a reset to Mariah despite her doing a full physical re-release kind of shows they have a pretty arbitrary/questionable standard for what constitutes that. I theorised that they just wouldn't ever reset old songs that were already hits but also acknowledged that there's nothing explicitly stopping them from doing that, all this has proven is the OCC consistently follows the rule of being entirely inconsistent and unpredictable :kink:

 

Totally right to reset it - the fact there is the ACR rule in place to keep the charts fresh would have in turn kept a single at #1 for an 11th week and prevented an artist returning to the Top 40 for the first time in 17 years and first #1 in 30+ years.

 

She got to #2 on ACR so it was nowhere near preventing her from returning to the top 40... unless I am misunderstanding something?

I chose "They should stick to the rules and not have reset it", though I do think it should have been #1, and like others (who chose either option) I think the rules are flawed and need to be changed.

 

I feel by making an exception, the (already) artificial chart is even more meaningless... I don't think exceptions should be granted.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... ACR is a crap solution. The out of chart for 3 years rule would probably make the best of ACR, but if they really want to keep the charts fresh, all that needs to be done is create a (relatively low) all time cap per person. People know if they like a song after 10 plays, put that as the limit. One stream = 1/10 sales. Any more are not counted.

 

If a song blows up in 10 years time and people discover it through that, they will be contributing, the people that already spent their streams won't. If they really want to cater to genuine reissues, they could always have a reset criteria that *needs* to be met (i.e. x number of newly televised performances/TV or radio tour with a newly issued physical release /requesting an actively promoted remix is counted separately etc)

I don't like a lifetime cap either tbh. I could buy the same song 10 years apart if for whatever reason I lost the first cd or file. But if i relove an old song and stream it a few times again that won't count. And you might also get a silly situation where streams for Mariah will be basically nothing cos everyone has streamed it by now. Then you have the other issue of people just creating new accounts...

I don't like a lifetime cap either tbh. I could buy the same song 10 years apart if for whatever reason I lost the first cd or file. But if i relove an old song and stream it a few times again that won't count. And you might also get a silly situation where streams for Mariah will be basically nothing cos everyone has streamed it by now. Then you have the other issue of people just creating new accounts...

Honestly I feel like a cap would do next to nothing anyway. last.fm has been around for aaaaages and on that, tracks like "Mr. Brightside" and "All I Want For Christmas Is You" are only averaging about 10 lifetime plays per listener*. Given how relatively new most Spotify & Apple accounts are by comparison, I imagine the ratio is lower on there. Even if it were a problem, that's what makes these songs popular. You get complaints about fake 'hits' that get their peaks based on initial intrigue and bomb out when no one likes it, but a cap is suggesting that actually sampling out new music to see if you like it is the only valid means of transaction.

 

But on that basis if it were possible to track, you could argue for removing vinyl sales when people already own the album on another format (which is often the case).

 

*Oh and "As It Was" which came out less than 3 months ago? 20 plays per user.

Edited June 15, 20223 yr by Dircadirca

It's a sexist rule, made to put Mariah "in her place". Disgusting!! REMOVE SEXIST ACR RIGHT NOW!!! Without it, we would have had a Sam Ryder Eurovision no.1 too!!

 

You mean the sexist rule you keep saying favoured AVA MAX?

I don't like a lifetime cap either tbh. I could buy the same song 10 years apart if for whatever reason I lost the first cd or file. But if i relove an old song and stream it a few times again that won't count. And you might also get a silly situation where streams for Mariah will be basically nothing cos everyone has streamed it by now. Then you have the other issue of people just creating new accounts...

 

 

Honestly I feel like a cap would do next to nothing anyway. last.fm has been around for aaaaages and on that, tracks like "Mr. Brightside" and "All I Want For Christmas Is You" are only averaging about 10 lifetime plays per listener*. Given how relatively new most Spotify & Apple accounts are by comparison, I imagine the ratio is lower on there. Even if it were a problem, that's what makes these songs popular. You get complaints about fake 'hits' that get their peaks based on initial intrigue and bomb out when no one likes it, but a cap is suggesting that actually sampling out new music to see if you like it is the only valid means of transaction.

 

But on that basis if it were possible to track, you could argue for removing vinyl sales when people already own the album on another format (which is often the case).

 

*Oh and "As It Was" which came out less than 3 months ago? 20 plays per user.

I mean, there's no perfect solution (as I'm sure most people would agree). What I'm really saying is it depends what OCC want the charts to represent.

 

Recording listening habits is entirely different to someone parting with their hard earned cash to buy a song. If someone wants to buy 5000 downloads of the same song, then so be it, they OCC could even put caps on that. Same goes for albums: if people are willing to spend £100 on variants for their favourite artist, let them - OCC can always decide how many formats are eligible if they wanted to.

 

If they wanted to get around multiple accounts (which I very much doubt the vast majority of people would give 2 shits about), they could monitor with IP addresses, if they're given that info. Chart fans and the occasional rabid fan base are the only ones who really care where there faves chart.

 

Obviously I haven't researched, but all the people I know of that have a last.fm account are those who will actively seek out new music. I don't think that's representative of the wider public who I honestly believe are far more inclined to shove a playlist on and listen to whatever's on it (maybe skipping songs they don't like). Through that kind of passive listening, you're almost certain to be fed the same songs over and over and over again.

sure you do have to wonder how many people have really listened to Mr Brightside at least ten times.

at least half probably but then you get kids who are only discovering the song now then old folks only just getting around to switching to a streaming account. so it wouldn’t necesassarily kick the song out the chart if we had just the lifetime cap and no acr.

 

sure you do have to wonder how many people have really listened to Mr Brightside at least ten times.

at least half probably but then you get kids who are only discovering the song now then old folks only just getting around to switching to a streaming account. so it wouldn’t necesassarily kick the song out the chart if we had just the lifetime cap and no acr.

Which is exactly what I'm saying. If people are genuinely newly discovering the song, and enjoying it, it should stay. If it's streams are coming from repeat plays, those should be disregarded (if the goal is to keep the chart as fresh as possible and to give each new song its fair chance at charting). There will be a few songs that persist, but the majority will see natural declines and we won't see as many farcical drops - those that have these will be largely fanbase or campaign driven songs (as has always been the case).

I wish they would just exclude streams from site curated playlists, it’s the equivalent of counting radio plays for me. It also gives far too much power and influence to Spotify

 

Makes me wonder just how big a day Kate could have had if she was featured on the main playlists. Ridiculous that the current #2 isn’t recognised on the hot hits UK one

Need rest pogues get Christmas number 1

I can't help but wonder if it had been some novelty song whether they'd have done the same thing.