watch from 24:37-25:21, that is exactly the response that anyone seeking to stoke division off this story deserves. and if you can stomach frogface afterwards, Starmer deals with him decently

Having watched the footage of the Novak case as BBC Verify presented it, it's quite clearly overworked police, used to treating suspects poorly, coming up against a perpetrator and accomplices who were willing to pose as victims and deceive law enforcement. Therefore the police were briefly confused, as J00ps says. Very little to do with race in any wider sense.

It's certainly not police brutality in the way Badenoch is on record with comparing this to the Floyd protests (though she was pleasingly respectful at PMQs), there might be something to be said or done about police apathy, but they often, naturally, interact with groups of people not known for their respect of the law.

This case is clearly awful, and the police made a serious mistake. However, to suggest that this proves that the whole police culture is somehow anti-white is utterly ridiculous. The issue here is simply that the police officers involved failed to recognise that the victim was in severe distress.

Farage's response is, predictably, that of a rabble-rouser. He doesn't care about facts. He just cares about whether he can get a certain type of person to vote for him.

Thanks to dum-dum Nigel and dum-dum Tommy, England could escalate into riots worse than the 2011 riots when Mark Duggan was shot

Signs are growing, government moods are shifting, the prime minister is reflecting on 'political realities' and insiders are leaking things to the press that Starmer will stand down on Monday.

Which means that following the rules of soft launches to the press it's as good as done now, let's hope for a quick transition I suppose.

Andy Burnham new PM tomorrow then!

I'm still not convinced the press won't just do exactly the same with Burnham as they did with Starmer and he'll be in 'crisis' one year from now, but realistically Starmer's been a dead man walking for a long time now and we would've been walking into a Reform majority, so a leader that's actually popular with the public can't be a bad thing.

2 hours ago, Dobbo said:

Andy Burnham new PM tomorrow then!

No the rumour is that Starmer will stay on whilst a leadership election takes place so no Coronation for Andy.

I’m not sure Burnham would end up quite like Starmer. The press would go for him because he’d be a Labour Prime Minister that’s for sure but I think there’s a good chance he’ll handle it better than Starmer has.

That’s always been Starmer’s problem in my opinion. He is unable to take criticisms well and spends way too much time trying to please critics that he’ll never be able to satisfy. He has taken for granted many Labour voters as his u turns and speeches about an island of strangers have been all about trying to get lost cause reform voters on side and yet go against the people who voted for him in the first place. He’s aimed to please everyone and ended up pleasing none.

I do think Burnham may have a thicker skin.

I think Burnham will end up exactly like Starmer. I think he might be able to unify the Labour Party better and understand where some things went wrong, but truth be told I think whoever is in power will be hated. Unfortunately a large part of the electorate want a "fun" leader and are not really fussed about competent politicians. Politics imo has never been more devisive. Not sure there are any quick fixed to a lot of our problems and any radical decisions will be political suicide. Being leader isn't easy, but ultimately I feel Starmer's done more good than harm, albeit with some very harsh lessons. I think people will be expecting Labour to get a bounce in the polls, I think they will, but I'm also not sure it's going to be as big as people expect.

Indeed, while Burnham may be a bit more charismatic and may not fall into the same obvious traps of announcing policies in a disappointed paternalistic fashion, and may not be as closely wedded to the horrible political instincts of the Labour Right for governing, he's not fundamentally different enough from the main thrust of British political governance to not be unpopular after the media have had their turn at finding something to get the public to hate him for.

Complicated legacy with Starmer, he set the country on the right track in some areas but was utterly terrible at political persuasion and likeability, did not deserve to be as hated as he did and stellar representative for us on the world stage but several complete unforced errors which I do not think well of him for.

Starmer resigns as Labour Leader but will stay on as PM until a new leader is elected.

That's Starmer out then!

Roll on the Burnham years

Well he lasted 48 days longer than Truss and Sunak combined but otherwise it's the shortest PM stint since Eden so will his tenure not be looked back on fondly at all.

Although touching on the above comments I think it'll become harder and harder for future PMs to ever achieve long runs at the top, basically like football managers. But this is still much preferable than the US where Presidents can do whatever they like and never ever face calls to resign.

I feel pretty sorry for him. He had an enormous task when he became PM, seems to have done a decent enough job and deserved better than to be torn down after two years.

2 hours ago, Iz様 🌟 said:

Indeed, while Burnham may be a bit more charismatic and may not fall into the same obvious traps of announcing policies in a disappointed paternalistic fashion, and may not be as closely wedded to the horrible political instincts of the Labour Right for governing, he's not fundamentally different enough from the main thrust of British political governance to not be unpopular after the media have had their turn at finding something to get the public to hate him for.

Complicated legacy with Starmer, he set the country on the right track in some areas but was utterly terrible at political persuasion and likeability, did not deserve to be as hated as he did and stellar representative for us on the world stage but several complete unforced errors which I do not think well of him for.

I think we’ll look back in history and things will be positive for Starmer. Clearly had the right thinking in a lot of aspects. I think Starmer was dealt a very unfortunate hand with the Southport murders and he never really recovered from that.

I also do laugh that the biggest Blairite is seen as the saviour of the Labour. From what I’m reading I do think he will unify the Party and Streeting will likely get a big high profile job. Agree with Dobbo too that we’re in this stage of chopping and changing PMs, which I think weakens people as people think we vote for leaders rather than partiesz

If (and tbh it seems like a certainty) Burnham does become PM, will be interesting to see if it does actually have an affect on the polling/ support for Labour.

Also what effect it has on Reform's support, which already seems to be dropping over the last 6-8 months. I'm guessing if it becomes a point where Reform really does drop back, Farage will jump ship.

10 minutes ago, ElectroBoy said:

If (and tbh it seems like a certainty) Burnham does become PM, will be interesting to see if it does actually have an affect on the polling/ support for Labour.

Also what effect it has on Reform's support, which already seems to be dropping over the last 6-8 months. I'm guessing if it becomes a point where Reform really does drop back, Farage will jump ship.

Reform are losing some support to Restore and clearly Farage is under pressure from his backers. But I don’t think they should be underestimated as Labour will need votes from people who voted Green/Lib Dems to tactically vote too.

But Starmer going is one set of the trap Reform have set as it can be seen as Burham is not what people voted for. Many of us were furious when the Tories pulled this trick with Truss and Sunak. If Burham has a terrible start, things could be bad, or he might get too confident and call an early general election.

2 minutes ago, Rooney said:

Reform are losing some support to Restore and clearly Farage is under pressure from his backers. But I don’t think they should be underestimated as Labour will need votes from people who voted Green/Lib Dems to tactically vote too.

But Starmer going is one set of the trap Reform have set as it can be seen as Burham is not what people voted for. Many of us were furious when the Tories pulled this trick with Truss and Sunak. If Burham has a terrible start, things could be bad, or he might get too confident and call an early general election.

Yeah that is true; Labour have lost support to the Greens and Dems too.

I guess, as Burnham said they've got 1 last change to try and turn things around. But things could get messy depending on what happens.

Farage though is keeping a low profile since the 5 million gift thing and has barely been seen.

The only thing I care about here is reducing the chance of Reform in 2029, I think Burnham has more likeability factor and is a stronger communicator which may help. Let's see what he does.

Hpefully he takes Reeves and Lammy with him. Interesting to see how Burnham positions himself now, he's been trading on "anti-Westminster" and "anti-Starmer" ticket but clearly that won't work now once he becomes the national leader. He'll need to find someway to convince voters in other parts of the country and can no longer be "King Of The North" (though I appreciate that isn't an accolade he gave himself). He'll need to find a solution to the defence question promptly otherwise the press will go for him which could mean some difficult questions on his pre election priorities and announcements.