Have to say I genuinely agree! The Persephonia balls and the Oslol MS Paint graphics are some of my favourite presentations we've ever had <3

everyone in the BJSC 179 listenthrough after hearing Sugar High

I’ve had a song saved on my playlist for a few months, and now that this spinoff appeared on the pop forum, I came across it again. I wanted to send it, but when I googled it to confirm that it belongs to the pop genre, it said that it’s a project by someone who uses AI but not entirely. Apparently, he writes the lyrics himself and participates in the music, but also gets assistance from SUNO, which is even explicitly mentioned in the song’s description. I had never looked into this before because the song sounded way too realistic to me. The singer’s name isn’t listed, so I assume it’s AI, which I never would have guessed. And now I feel a bit sad because I liked the song.

Well I came second in the contest with Headache and The Beginning of the End - which has an intentional AI vocal, so it isn't impossible to do well with one... I think people were kinder to that because it is essentially the work of a person, just utilising AI to articulate their original material. So, if it's like that, it could be okay?

I do think the use of AI in the Headache song is a different case because it's an artistic decision that actually does enhance it in context, and it's only for the actual 'recording' of the vocals, every other element of the song is human. So there is some room for nuance. x

I submitted a song, and then I apologized and said it’s no problem for me to find another one. But even if they accept it, if I’ve already revealed here what I wanted to send, people would know it’s my song, so it might not be fair except here or for the Buzzjack contest, where I could post it for you to comment on.

2 hours ago, RobBot said:

The way that post is so evidently promotion for that contest but framed in a way that it fits tenuously into this discussion is quite creative, I'll give you that Wardy 😂

That's not the case. I made it clear I was only doing this as a favor to the mods because others had declined to host, as it turns out I could have simply handed it onto Bré and we wouldn't have this issue.

For what it's worth I've taken the link down from that post and I may remove the banner to avoid any further criticism, but I want you to note that I initiated the post and drew attention to the AI in my banner rather than ignoring it. I was once a minimalist creative host but I don't have the time or desire these days to come up with aesthetics like this.

Anyway, appreciate the overall messages and opinions shared since I made that post, and I will now know what to do and not do if I ever host in future. That's why I asked for direction.

@awardinary I don't think anyone is criticising your banner? The general consensus has been that people think it's fine for use in contest artwork, even though some people don't like AI at all.

There literally isn't an issue?

Hi, hope it's okay to contribute here as an outsider these days x

Being totally honest, the idea of AI-created music baffles me and I don't really understand why there's any real interest in it! It's a real middle finger up to singers, songwriters, producers, and everyone else who works on recording music and invests their time into learning and perfecting their craft. As for it's place in BJSC, it's not up to me to say as a non-participant, but I think any platforming of AI songs is unhelpful for real artists, because as Lindsey eloquently said, part of the fun is discovering a song you love and then delving into their back catalogue - I did that many times with artists I found in BJSC (e.g. I discovered great further songs from the likes of Ronya, Celeste Buckingham, Rhys, and quite notably Marcus & Martinus, not to mention a large number of the artists I sent myself), but that's not really something you can get from a song that's AI generated or an artist that doesn't actually exist.

I do feel similarly about AI art in these contests too. Again, I've not paid attention to any contests in ages so I don't know the extent to which hosts have used it, and absolutely no judgement against or disrespect meant towards those who have, but I think I'd personally rather see no banners than those that are entirely AI generated. I think it's more special personally to see art designed by actual people, even if it's rough around the edges - it's why I personally love photo editing and teaching myself new skills on Photoshop! Of course, I know not everyone has the time or resources for this, especially when hosting. Ultimately I think if you want some art in your contest, I'd value a basic attempt at a banner on a free photo editing platform more than a polished AI-generated piece, because it adds much more of a personal touch, especially when it's not actually a compulsory part of BJSC hosting (and I feel similarly about commentaries too - I'd rather no commentary or a very basic one written by whoever's posting it than an AI-generated commentary).

The impact of AI on BJSC is neither here nor there for me personally, but this basically applies across the forum too. I'd rather see human skills and hard work reflected.

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been covered - brilliantly - by you all, but just another voice adding that I feel quite uncomfortable with AI infiltrating creative fields to the extent it has. I appreciate how advanced technology can clean up work already created by humans, like the last Beatles song, plus I gave the aforementioned Headache song 18 points so that's food for thought - but I think I feel more comfortable with this example, as it again has components created by humans, with AI vocals to enhance the dystopian effect. But I don't love the idea of an entirely AI-generated song at all as it's essentially a stolen product.

I constantly feel like I'm fighting an "old man shouts at cloud" battle in my head with the topic of AI in general. Our lives are more fast-paced than ever so I get the conveniency factor, 100%. I think the decay of our own creativity for more polished instant gratification is just a bit sad to witness. Same when I used to doomscroll on Twitter and you'd see people defaulting to Grok in the replies, even for the most basic of answers, rather than trying any critical thinking for themselves.

To analyse my own hosting, the number crunching was very time consuming, so I have empathy for other hosts who want to make their lives easier. But I just feel more comfortable and satisfied when I know I've created everything. I've always struggled with stretching myself too thin though, so tried to balance it better this time. I kept recap videos, another time consuming element albeit one I enjoy, but ditched commentary in the final that I've done in the past, as I just didn't feel like I'd have the time. The option to replace with AI commentary was there, but that feels so against who I am as a poster, who usually crafts commentary from the heart. Plus it can throw up inaccuracies. So, overall, I was happy with no commentary (perhaps saving for smaller, anon contests) - instead putting my time into numbers, formatting and recaps.

Where banners are concerned - these are not my strength at all but I find AI ones a bit too uncanny valley anyway, so you will be getting five pictures of MUNA jammed together and a free online blur tool

I guess ultimately effort and creativity still go a long way for me in a world more AI slop-ified than ever. My own contributions on here will never be AI. But we're all different hosts, with varying availability and our own flair. I'll try and open my mind a little bit if used in conjunction with some creativity/effort but I still feel a moral disconnect from this massive AI push in the world in general, so tend to favour authentic creation.

Personally, I find myself paranoid that I will send an AI song without doing thorough research. I already do extensive research to check if an artist is AI. Usually, a lack of social media presence can indicate if an artist/band is AI but that's also not a guarantee. Anyone who knows me knows I dislike AI with a passion, the idea of AI imagery especially based on actual people or photos and used to make deepfakes and what not is creepy. In Music, I equally find it to be soulless and weird, music is about connection and relation to the artist’s music. If you take away that, it’s not really music I can get behind and AI music is a prime example of that, it strips away the music and the connection that makes people like music.

I would love to see AI Music not in the contest and have some policing about how to avoid it in the contest but I also am highly aware that it can get super difficult in this day and age to spot AI made things so I know that it would be hard to guarantee that a contest can be AI-Free. I guess it should be up to us, the people sending the songs to do research on the artists and where it comes from.

Quite ironic that I sent Jackie Extreme to BJSC twice before purely because of the ‘100% virtual artist’ gimmick. This was some years before the craze had started and it definitely didn’t mean the same as it does now.

Not sure how feasible and implementable it would be to ban ‘known’ AI entries so I don’t really have an opinion on whether or not they should be outright banned. All I know is that I will never purposely send any song done even partially by AI. I will also never give any points to a song made using AI, nor will I even listen to it. I personally don’t see any valid excuse whatsoever for AI usage of any kind in both music and art.

Not judging or targeting anyone in this forum at all but I find virtually any use of LLMs as lazy and stupid at best. Creating something (e.g. “”””art””””) using LLMs crosses a serious line for me. I cannot believe how many people are profiting of it in the world at the moment, putting creatives out of work and polluting the internet, training off other data plopped out of different LLMs being trained on the first LLM’s output. An infinitely incestuous monster that multiplies exponentially is what we get, and frankly what we deserve given how little pushback seems to be happening in the world and how complacent we’re becoming.

Regardless, I believe that LLMs by themselves have no technical capacity to evolve into something bigger and better (like promised). It’s just a stupid gimmick akin to Mechanical Turk but instead of a real person hidden inside, there are just thousands of servers storing unfathomably large amounts of (stolen) data using systems that were invented years ago, all while wasting huge amounts of water and electricity.

tl;dr :’) I f***ing hate AI and all the tech bros pedaling it with every fiber of my being. Feel free to send known AI songs to BJSC if you wish but I will unlikely even listen to it.

45 minutes ago, JosephStyles said:

Ronya

Omg not the ultra rare Ronya mention ;__:

5 minutes ago, pavi said:

Omg not the ultra rare Ronya mention ;__:

A staple on mine and my sister's shared playlist, genuinely

50 minutes ago, awardinary said:

That's not the case. I made it clear I was only doing this as a favor to the mods because others had declined to host, as it turns out I could have simply handed it onto Bré and we wouldn't have this issue.

For what it's worth I've taken the link down from that post and I may remove the banner to avoid any further criticism, but I want you to note that I initiated the post and drew attention to the AI in my banner rather than ignoring it. I was once a minimalist creative host but I don't have the time or desire these days to come up with aesthetics like this.

Anyway, appreciate the overall messages and opinions shared since I made that post, and I will now know what to do and not do if I ever host in future. That's why I asked for direction.

Wardy my love, nothing in my post was meant to be anything more than a playful poking fun at you being able to promote that contest through that post, completely unserious. It has obviously provoked worthwhile discussion so there’s nothing to apologise for or feel any stress over x

I dislike AI art in general, I think when used in tandem it can be effective, but solely AI in what is such a human based concept just never sits right for me, and Creatives are struggling enough as it is. I do believe AI has it's functional uses and can definitely assist in productivity in many areas, but the day it ever comes when entirely AI produced music, films, TV etc. is actually widespread will be a very sad one. Commentary on art is also distinctly human so I always appreciate human commentary as well. Saying that, I don't mind if people use them for basic graphics if that's easier, they don't offend me even if they are sometimes creepy when imagining people.

It can be hard to tell with AI these days, one of my past entrants, SPIRITS UNBRIDLED, definitely used AI for the video and there's a chance it could be AI based, but I couldn't verify due to the very obscure nature of it (and the video was SO uncanny valley it inadvertantly worked with the song), I would never intentionally send one and will research them now they're becoming more widespread, I don't judge those that didn't know and will judge a song on it's own merits, though I would hope that no one would continuously send them intentionally.

4 hours ago, awardinary said:

That's not the case. I made it clear I was only doing this as a favor to the mods because others had declined to host, as it turns out I could have simply handed it onto Bré and we wouldn't have this issue.

For what it's worth I've taken the link down from that post and I may remove the banner to avoid any further criticism, but I want you to note that I initiated the post and drew attention to the AI in my banner rather than ignoring it. I was once a minimalist creative host but I don't have the time or desire these days to come up with aesthetics like this.

Anyway, appreciate the overall messages and opinions shared since I made that post, and I will now know what to do and not do if I ever host in future. That's why I asked for direction.

I think all rob was pointing out is you are talking about another song contest that is not BJSC in the BJSC forum and the tags do make it look like you were trying to get traffic from here to enter the other contest you're hosting, there was no criticism of your banner or the reason you're hosting it?? I think if you have queries like that maybe direct them towards the mods of the forum you're hosting something in first or even the mod lounge/help section so there's no confusion with why something is being posted in another topic etc 🤷🏼‍♀️

AI is a slippery slope, you use it for one thing, then another and suddenly you're reliant on it. In terms of using it to create graphics, I don't see the harm in the context of this site where nobody is actively profiting from it, it's not a request to replicate anything already pre-existing, if it's to bring an idea or concept to life that you wouldn't know how to do yourself then sure, I'm not gonna judge for that. Like Addy's airline images, it's already clear he knew exactly what he wanted etc. I think people argue that something you're getting AI to do art wise could be put to an actual artist to commission but that's really not something that needs to be done here imo, unless Bray is gonna start charging for his paint balls 😂

In the contest I hosted I really wanted to illustrate my own tarot cards as I do have that skillset however at the time I didn't have a laptop so I couldn't use the software I'd need, I also didn't have time. I didn't use AI though! I ended up purchasing a digital download of a deck someone had illustrated themselves and put on Etsy #supportsmallbusinesses!! I made the gifs myself and whatever else I had though 🤭

11 minutes ago, Lindsey. said:

unless Bray is gonna start charging for his paint balls 😂

8 minutes ago, Brer said:

I'm not paying for mine x

New lore drop: Persephonia suing Neliönoir