how much has Messy Little Raindrops' sold in total so far?

Of course it's in some ways easier for long-lasting acts to start on independent labels where they're less likely to get dropped if their album doesn't do much - for example, Green Day started out on Lookout! Records for their first two albums. Their second, Kerplunk, sold 50,000 copies (unprecedented for the label) in a ridiculously short amount of time. Major labels saw their potential not only for making money but also longevity (since their second album was streets ahead of their first, 39/Smooth) and they got signed up by Reprise. Their first two albums wouldn't have done a great deal even if they'd been on major labels so they could well have been dropped, butt the fact that they grew into their career and peaked at their third (and arguably again on their seventh) album suggests that independent labels are worth their weight in gold for the music industry. Without Lookout!, there could have been no "Dookie", no "American Idiot", no Blink, no Fall Out Boy, no My Chemical Romance or anything of that ilk (obviously it's a bit much too much to pin all that on Green Day but apart from them and The Offspring there was very little pop-punk above the underground in the early mid-90s). Regardless what you think of the genre, it's been a huge money spinner and wouldn't have been possible if major labels were the be-all and end-all of the music industry.

It was made in part by people who were able to look a few years ahead and say "OK so they may not be doing brilliantly now but the potential is there for this act to be great. Stick with them and they could make us a lot of money in years to come".

So there's still time for Beverley Knight? AaronTM will be please :P

 

Absolutely.

 

Eric's post also seems to assume that if an artist makes good music they will be very successful whereas often the reverse is true especially in the singles chart. The public will largely buy any old crap if you give it a sexy singer, a flashy video, put it on heavy rotation

Poor BRAVE Gabriella Cilmi :( [/thanks Aled ;D] Although tbf, I don't she got the airplay so I guess the "heavy rotation" applied to her unsuccessful era...

how much has Messy Little Raindrops' sold in total so far?

 

Please check the YTD T40 albums thread for the answer.

Of course it's in some ways easier for long-lasting acts to start on independent labels where they're less likely to get dropped if their album doesn't do much - for example, Green Day started out on Lookout! Records for their first two albums. Their second, Kerplunk, sold 50,000 copies (unprecedented for the label) in a ridiculously short amount of time. Major labels saw their potential not only for making money but also longevity (since their second album was streets ahead of their first, 39/Smooth) and they got signed up by Reprise. Their first two albums wouldn't have done a great deal even if they'd been on major labels so they could well have been dropped, butt the fact that they grew into their career and peaked at their third (and arguably again on their seventh) album suggests that independent labels are worth their weight in gold for the music industry. Without Lookout!, there could have been no "Dookie", no "American Idiot", no Blink, no Fall Out Boy, no My Chemical Romance or anything of that ilk (obviously it's a bit much too much to pin all that on Green Day but apart from them and The Offspring there was very little pop-punk above the underground in the early mid-90s). Regardless what you think of the genre, it's been a huge money spinner and wouldn't have been possible if major labels were the be-all and end-all of the music industry.

 

it also works the other way. melanie c set up her own record label with money she made from her time with the spice girls, and she's had a couple of big hits in europe and a successful album that wouldn't have come about because she had been dropped by virgin had she not set up her own label.

 

tori amos signed a 50/50 partnership with universal republic in 2009, half her money half theirs and profits split 50/50. that meant she could release her 7th top 10 album in america and top 20 in the uk. that album may never have come about if it wasn't for going indie and doing it herself.

 

not all artists need a major record deal, but they do need their own money to back themselves.

40 years ago, in the charts, different types of music were in demand. Genres such as rock were far more popular, and more dominating. There was higher demand for rock music, so it was supplied more. Now there's lower demand for rock music, and higher demand for electronica, RnB, pop, hip hop, dance, etc. music, so those types of songs are supplied more.

 

Doesn't work that way.

 

Rock/metal music certainly hasn't suffered from a MAJOR drop in demand - it has simply changed the form that demand takes. The singles chart is now largely irrelevant to the genres growth.

 

Rock/metal acts are consistently among the highest grossing touring bands - the top three highest grossing (worldwide) tours of 2010 were AC/DC, Bon Jovi and Metallica. Indeed AC/DCs Black Ice tour (their most recent) is the second highest-grossing tour ever, while Metallica recently broke the ticket sales record at the Acer Arena in Sydney by selling out four consecutive nights, beating Britney Spears record in the process.

 

In the album charts rock and metal are strong as well. Iron Maiden's latest album went to No. 1 in 30 countries, which is a staggering achievement by anybody's standards. And for all the bull$h!t talk about "how difficult it is to break America" it's seemingly no problem for rock acts - Bullet For My Valentine (a Welsh metal band) sent their latest album to No. 3 on the Billboard album charts, while Muse sent their last album to No. 1.

 

What I'm essentially saying is that the singles charts are not the only measure of success. It made me laugh last year to hear all the rubbish coming out of the pro-X-Factor people (even judges like Louis Walsh) that RATM were a small band nobody had ever heard of, but that Joe could sell out Wembley stadium! What nonsense, and to think that some people actually believed it! :lol:

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by ags_rule

As regards Leona Lewis, & Susan Boyle - As their 2nd Albums were quite

big, I'm sure that Cowell will judge whther to drop them or not, on the basis

of how well their 3rd Albums sell. (But, in both cases, their 2nd Albums have

not sold nearly as well as their 1st Albums). But, their 2nd Albums did well

enough for Cowell to hang on to them - for now.

 

Shayne Ward, & Joe McElderry, have no chance to be 'kept on', by Cowell.

There is a rumour that Cowell may let Joe try with a 2nd Album, before

deciding whether to 'get rid'. But, even that is not certain - and a 2nd Joe Album

is not going to sell very well, anyhow. (It is pretty obvious that 'X Factor' Fans

- most - are already bored with him).

 

In today's 'Daily Mail', Steve Brookstein says that the last time he saw Cowell,

was at a Party. Cowell, briefly, spoke to him. The next he heard, he was going

to be dropped by him. He asked for £50,000 - as a severance fee, but Cowell

would only offer £12,500. He E-mailed Cowell, but got a reply from Cowell's

Solicitors - telling him he was no longer to contact Cowell directly.

 

LINK:,

 

http://smurl.name/nh53

 

Why some people think Cowell is clever, smart - 'nice', even - I don't know.

You judge people by how they treat others. Does Simon treat 'X Factor' Winners

decently, when he decides they are no longer of use to him?

 

And, you'd never believe that the UK gave the World, The Beatles, & The Rolling

Stones, etc., when the 'Stars' that come from 'The X Factor', do Covers, & most

of them do not even get kept on by Cowell, for more than 1 or 2 Albums!

 

Anyone who thinks that Guy does anything for the image - or future - of UK Music,

must be 100% deluded! He's good at making money. That's it.

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by zeus555

Anyone who thinks that Guy does anything for the image - or future - of UK Music,

must be 100% deluded! He's good at making money. That's it.

 

No one is saying that. You're missing the point.

 

Why do you write your posts so weirdly by the way?

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by ★ Xmas Bray ★

Now this is one for next year that I may actually care about. Should've been this year though

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fairytale-of...139778169410721

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by Severin

Now this is one for next year that I may actually care about. Should've been this year though

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fairytale-of...139778169410721

 

Er that campaign was running this year. And last year. And probably will run every year until people get the message that a classic Xmas song which everybody knows and a huge number of people already have stands no chance of beating the X-Factor.

 

My choice would be rather randomly Metallica's "Disposable Heroes" - same formula for success as RATM had. Large and loyal fanbase (even bigger than RATM), loud and aggressive track, and of course the lyrics are pretty fitting for the whole X-Factor protest idea...

 

"Back to the front!

You will do

What I say

When I say it

 

Back to the front!

You coward...

You servant...

You blind man!"

 

They could even change the word coward to Cowell haha! :D

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by ags_rule

Er that campaign was running this year. And last year.

I'm well aware of that but the truth is with the RATM campaign pretty much all the members had the track already as well but simply downloaded it again because of the campaign. Saame is largely true for The Trashmen and you can't tell me people are actually buying silence because they need a copy of it.

If people buy into the idea it will sell on top of the already standard extra seasonal sales.

 

 

As for Metallica? You'd have to pay me to download one of their songs. They're about as corporate as it gets these days

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by Severin

Back on topic..... whats the numbers looking like between Bird Vs Cardle at the moment?

Back on topic..... whats the numbers looking like between Bird Vs Cardle at the moment?

No sales updates on Friday or today, but I'd say something like this:

 

Matt = 370k

Rihanna = 86k

Surfin Bird = 70k

No sales updates on Friday or today, but I'd say something like this:

 

Matt = 370k

Rihanna = 86k

Surfin Bird = 70k

 

Rather an underestimate for Matt - I think his total sales at close of play will be around 450k even allowing for adverse weather

 

I'm backing The Lonely Island's "I'm On A Boat" for next year's Christmas #1. No particular sentiment behind it, I just think it's a great comedy track and I'd love to hear Radio 1 (or the X Factor for that matter) attempt to explain it or play a radio edit. You heard it here first.

As for Metallica? You'd have to pay me to download one of their songs. They're about as corporate as it gets these days

 

Gotta disagree with that, Death Magnetic was a real return to form, some great thrash that was anything but 'corporate'.

 

And 'Disposable Heroes' is from Master Of Puppets anyway

 

But, back on topic, I honestly think that with RATM it was right song, right place, right time, just everything about it fell into place. It really will take something special for that to happen again, but I am quite confident that there will be another rock or metal campaign in the limelight eventually.

 

Gotta disagree with that, Death Magnetic was a real return to form, some great thrash that was anything but 'corporate'.

 

And 'Disposable Heroes' is from Master Of Puppets anyway

 

But, back on topic, I honestly think that with RATM it was right song, right place, right time, just everything about it fell into place. It really will take something special for that to happen again, but I am quite confident that there will be another rock or metal campaign in the limelight eventually.

 

It did not help Joes case though with thick eeidiot Louis insulting RAM and claiming Joe would outsell, outpeak and outbook them at Wembley.Plus Biffa Tweedy and Simon telling us that Joe deserved to get to No 1.Poor Joe was never going to prevail.

I think the anti Cowell bashing is a bit much though.Granted this last X-factor was atrocious and Simon brings much of the hate on himself but as a PJ poster stated the show jumped the Shark last year and has lost its way.I just know though that girls like Leona and Alex would never had got record deals without it and both had been playing gigs and events long before they entered the competition.It is not just an easy way out for those looking for fame.

Gotta disagree with that, Death Magnetic was a real return to form, some great thrash that was anything but 'corporate'.

 

And 'Disposable Heroes' is from Master Of Puppets anyway

 

But, back on topic, I honestly think that with RATM it was right song, right place, right time, just everything about it fell into place. It really will take something special for that to happen again, but I am quite confident that there will be another rock or metal campaign in the limelight eventually.

Fair play to you if you like 'Talli but personally I've always found them to be rather lightweight (including Master Of Puppets) and aside from the odd 5 or so tracks I really don't like them. I'd rather hear Slayer's worst album over Metallica's best (Ride The Lightning) anyday.

 

But agreed this isn't the place for this chat.

Agree RATM was a wonderful synchronisation of events and will be hard to replicate but getting any decent song anywhere in the charts these days as far as I'm concerned is a cause worth championing. Don't really care about the whole anti X-Factor thing anymore than I did hating S/A/W back in the 80s. Sure it's vile and crap but it ain't going to affect me as the charts suck with or without it

Rather an underestimate for Matt - I think his total sales at close of play will be around 450k even allowing for adverse weather

 

This. I don't know if this is true, but on another site, I read a quote from someone who works for the OCC on DigitalSpy a couple of days ago saying that he expects Matt to sell almost 500,000, if he follows the usual sales trend or something along those lines.

 

Also, sorry everybody for that rant I posted yesterday. :lol: I didn't mean to de-rail this thread, although it should've been obvious at the time I posted it that it would. :lol: But yeah, a major presumption I made in my post was that people only buy songs they like. Whilst this is the case in general, there are some exceptions. Like people might buy charity songs even if they don't like them very much. There's also promotion. If artists make an incredible song, but they make no effort to share it with other people (via word of mouth, the Internet, radio, etc.), then nobody will buy it, simply because nobody knows about it, and likewize, a poor song that's played everywhere on TV, in shopping centres, on the radio, in clubs, etc. might probably sell more than it deserves, because people might end up just forcing themselves to like it so that they don't go insane, or they might end up just having a lot of fond memories associated with the song, since it's everywhere. But in general, people mainly buy songs they like. It boils down to money again. People wouldn't spend money on a song that they don't enjoy listening to.

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by Eric_Blob

Just looking through real-time updates and someone tweeted that Kunt and the Gang is on the cusp of the Top 40.

Lot of people promoting the track and creating a buzz online.

 

2 blogs from the man himself.

 

Edited December 18, 201015 yr by Santa Mark