Completely farcical, if the Government weren't simply ‘parachuting in’ failing Grayling why were they hassling Lewis to vote him in ?

 

Looking forward to pages and pages of black lines then. :lol:

 

The fact Raab has already come out and tried to throw the opposition under a bus probably tells us that there are some very damaging things in it. For what it's worth I don't think Russia have a particular political aligence, I just think they like to influence chaos. But of course it's going to be heavily redacted :lol: Oh well at least we will probably get some great detectives and theorists..

The fact Raab has already come out and tried to throw the opposition under a bus probably tells us that there are some very damaging things in it. For what it's worth I don't think Russia have a particular political aligence, I just think they like to influence chaos. But of course it's going to be heavily redacted :lol: Oh well at least we will probably get some great detectives and theorists..

Oh I think it's quite obvious that they see weakening the EU, and in particular isolating the UK, as beneficial.

Oh I think it's quite obvious that they see weakening the EU, and in particular isolating the UK, as beneficial.

 

Yes, and the United States of America, as well as eroding trust and faith in democracy in general.

Oh I think it's quite obvious that they see weakening the EU, and in particular isolating the UK, as beneficial.

 

 

Yes, and the United States of America, as well as eroding trust and faith in democracy in general.

There is so much anti-Western propaganda over here so I see that being true for sure.

I mean it probably actually is true because as long as Russia chooses not to be part of the EU despite it being on its doorstep, then the latter being strong does hinder Russia. But the EU hasn't been weakened from Brexit and besides, it's not up for Russia to decide another country's place in it.

I mean it probably actually is true because as long as Russia chooses not to be part of the EU despite it being on its doorstep, then the latter being strong does hinder Russia. But the EU hasn't been weakened from Brexit and besides, it's not up for Russia to decide another country's place in it.

 

I would say that depends. The UK leaving is a blow to the EU in one way and weakens their position slightly (not as much as it weakens the UK ofc). On the other hand, Brexit has brought the countries of the EU closer and more united than before. If a no deal brexit happens, that will weaken the EU economically as it'll have negative consequences across parts of the EU - but again not as negative as the consequences will be to the UK.

Edited July 17, 20205 yr by Envoirment

I don’t think the EU will notice a hard Brexit too much because of corona. Car sales are down anyway and nobody is exactly falling over themselves to buy aerospace bits and bobs. Services aren’t impacted by tariffs and that’s the primary import to the EU from the UK - the change to the banking services will actually be to the benefit of the EU as it means increased jobs on the continent to give London based banks a footprint to keep trading. UKs manufacturing exports are precarious anyway. Plane bits and Cars. Airbus can move production to the continent and given collapsing demand might well do in order to avoid job loses in France. On cars you’ve got Vauxhall who are a special badge on Germany’s Opel and are owned by France’s PSA Group (factories across the continent can take astra production), Nissan are highly integrated and 43% owned by Renault who are 15% owned by the French state (again, lots of continent based factories), JLR have built a factory in Slovakia already, Toyota might well do a Honda and take advantage of the new EU-JPN trade deal and just export from japan. Honda are shutting up shop already.

 

 

What do we have left? Scotch and Salmon? Demand will fall but the markets for both are global so Scotland should be ok until it can secure freedom.

 

I just don’t think the EU is going to be that hurt by this.

I don’t think the EU will notice a hard Brexit too much because of corona. Car sales are down anyway and nobody is exactly falling over themselves to buy aerospace bits and bobs. Services aren’t impacted by tariffs and that’s the primary import to the EU from the UK - the change to the banking services will actually be to the benefit of the EU as it means increased jobs on the continent to give London based banks a footprint to keep trading. UKs manufacturing exports are precarious anyway. Plane bits and Cars. Airbus can move production to the continent and given collapsing demand might well do in order to avoid job loses in France. On cars you’ve got Vauxhall who are a special badge on Germany’s Opel and are owned by France’s PSA Group (factories across the continent can take astra production), Nissan are highly integrated and 43% owned by Renault who are 15% owned by the French state (again, lots of continent based factories), JLR have built a factory in Slovakia already, Toyota might well do a Honda and take advantage of the new EU-JPN trade deal and just export from japan. Honda are shutting up shop already.

What do we have left? Scotch and Salmon? Demand will fall but the markets for both are global so Scotland should be ok until it can secure freedom.

 

I just don’t think the EU is going to be that hurt by this.

 

The EU will be hurt by it, there's a massive hole in funding for starters. And you're losing the ability to freely supply produce to the entire population of the UK. The UK leaving the EU is not good for the UK or the EU and it will affect both in different ways, although certainly the UK more.

Oh no. We will have more food for us.

 

The UK is still gonna import food at the same rates, it’s just gonna be more expensive to buy off the shelf. We’re right on the doorstep and there’s a lack of alternatives come jan 1st ready to go. Plus given the attitude of the public towards US food standards that’s a non-starter for lots of supermarkets so they’ll still need continental suppliers.

 

Germany is coughing up more and without the UK there’s a reduction in CAP and in ERDF as well so the hit isn’t that bad. Especially considering the next Euro Budget is being completely redone from the ground up for Corona anyway. The UKs 180m a week ain’t even noticed in that context

The full text of the public Russia report. Lot of redactions but interesting reading nonetheless.

 

The headline that seems to be going is that the government did not conduct any assessment into Russian attempts to interfere with the 2016 referendum - when even America produced an assessment about the same regarding their 2016 election within two months of the date.

 

Biggest other things I can find/read summaries of is that much like the Mueller report, they cannot prove there was no collusion, and that a number of Lords have business links with Russia that are ripe for exploitation and then that Russia likes playing itself as a foreign policy wildcard which we knew already.

The report is big news, it made the radio broadcasts over here. Not entirely sure which of the local stations it was, think it was one of the public broadcasters, but they had an interview on when i was in a share car earlier talking about the report and the 2014 IndyRef in particular and how they suspect russia fiddled but then the UK Gov just sat on its hands and did f*** all (no evidence/not known what side they took in 2014).

I think we can narrow down the way most of tomorrow's front pages will handle this. It will be a combination of

 

1) Ignore it altogether

2) Say that there was no evidence of interference (ignoring the fact that there was n effort to look for it)

3) Concentrate on the Scottish referendum (ignoring the fact that evidence of interference on the No side should arguably lead to quashing the result, thereby strengthening the case for another vote)

My bet is that for the first time, the ultra-Unionist and ultra-Nationalist media will all be singing about the same topic - 3) 2014 IndyRef. Although I reckon the unionist rags will play SNP Bad and try and invent links to the SNP based on Salmond's Russia Today gig (SNP Bad is the only editorial stance the unionist media is capable of here. Think of a topic, any topic, and there will be a unionist media story blaming it on the SNP). The Nationalist side will however claim Unionist Bad and push for IndyRef2 (again, their standard go to line).

 

Neither are correct of course - namely because the report doesn't state what side Russia meddled for. Sturgeon has already said she would welcome an investigation into Russia's role in 2014, the YES campaign didn't receive any direct help from or solicit Russia in any way, but that as Intelligence and Security were reserved matters the Scottish Gov is unable to investigate this unilaterally.

My bet is that for the first time, the ultra-Unionist and ultra-Nationalist media will all be singing about the same topic - 3) 2014 IndyRef. Although I reckon the unionist rags will play SNP Bad and try and invent links to the SNP based on Salmond's Russia Today gig (SNP Bad is the only editorial stance the unionist media is capable of here. Think of a topic, any topic, and there will be a unionist media story blaming it on the SNP). The Nationalist side will however claim Unionist Bad and push for IndyRef2 (again, their standard go to line).

 

Neither are correct of course - namely because the report doesn't state what side Russia meddled for. Sturgeon has already said she would welcome an investigation into Russia's role in 2014, the YES campaign didn't receive any direct help from or solicit Russia in any way, but that as Intelligence and Security were reserved matters the Scottish Gov is unable to investigate this unilaterally.

Logic suggests that Russia would have supported Yes as that would have destabilised the west. However, there are a lot of reports suggesting that Cameron tried to get Putin to help the No campaign.

Logic suggests that Russia would have supported Yes as that would have destabilised the west. However, there are a lot of reports suggesting that Cameron tried to get Putin to help the No campaign.

Yeah i agree that would be the logical answer, but as we know Russia doesn't always play by the same logic rules as we do. You could argue a narrow No victory would be more destabilising to UK internal politics in the mid-term leading to a more spectacular implosion (primarily because that does appear to be the way things are right now).

 

One thing that makes me feel it's more No than Yes (aside from anecdotal crap about more unionist bots) is the unashamedly pro-EU stance of the Yes campaign and a narrative that a country broke apart so half of it could guarantee it remained in the EU doesn't serve Russia's interest in, and goal of, destabilising and disintegrating the EU.

The best front page today goes to the FT, 'Ministers 'actively avoided' inquiry into Russia meddling into Brexit vote' - highlights that it's not just laziness, they stopped any hint of further assessment.

 

Express has gone with the Brexit zealot route, taking Johnson at his word, Telegraph mostly ignores it, Mail going right in however - though just from a glance at the front page, not in a way that attacks the government.

North of the border. As predicted and expected the Mail and the Express both scream about Sturgeon refusing to order an enquiry into Russian meddling into 2014. They briefly and lightly mention that she said the UK Gov could do so and shed support that. Main focus was on lambasting Nicola though.

 

 

What they shockingly (dear reader I was not shocked) forgot to mention is that legally, the Scottish Government does not have the necessary powers to order such an enquiry as the security services are a reserved matter. Now if the Mail and Express would like to campaign for the power to hold such an enquiry like a normal independent nation would I’m not sure Sturgeon would complain

Johnson's visit to Scotland today is... interesting. Definitely pushing the BetterTogether message hard, I'm sure the nationalists will appreciate the bump in the polls.

 

When I stood on the steps of Downing Street one year ago, I pledged to be a prime minister for every corner of the United Kingdom. Whether you are from East Kilbride or Dumfries, Motherwell or Paisley, I promised to level up across Britain and close the opportunity gap.

 

I don't know exactly how to parse the support schemes though, whether they are enough or not enough for Scottish communities hit hard by the pandemic.

He said the pandemic response has highlighted the ‘might’ of the Union.

 

Is he talking about the four different responses from the four different nations of the union?

Indeed and the 45k deaths that have so far occurred.

 

The SNP and Scotland better understand they will be the enemy within during this electoral cycle due to the independence requests getting louder as in 2014 EVERYTHING will be done to stop this.