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Nothing particular to Jones, I just picked his tweet as just one of a number of voices I respect all saying essentially the same thing, and he had also made the point that May had fallen foul of this church before. And just as we should condemn May for that, we should condemn Starmer for this, for not doing the due diligence of simple research about who they're visiting.

 

I don't think that's selective at all. First travellers, now the LGBT community, I just find it astonishing how even when they're trying to be as inoffensive as possible they still mess up.

 

I find it quite selective, especially from the likes of Owen Jones. You can find a load of gaffs from Corbyn etc. Too but I guess Owen would be far less likely to highlight. I’ll totally admit this is a bit of a gaff, although in defence of Starmer, I would say the context of the visit is completely different. I still don’t think it makes it right but it’s an entirely different context. While I can appreciate who is advising is not doing their research but I’d hardly say Starmer is a homophobe for visiting the church.

 

With regards to the Travellers community isn’t this just so engrained in our culture that we have a prejudice against them? Not saying it’s right or wrong but it’s innate for a lot of people and certainly a vote grabber at a local level and often with good reason. There’s the argument for better facilities and designated sites but I’m not even sure they would solve half of the societal issues. Deffo a bad look the the shadow equalities minister to be handing out leaflets.

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I deal with the travelling community a lot in my job and I don’t have anything against anyone but my heart sinks when I have to deal with them as they are so difficult and think to get something they have to shout. And the next thing it’s like ‘I want to speak to your manager please’ your not giving me what I want.

 

I think it’s a lack of education myself though!

Corbyn sounding more like the Labour leader than Starmer, the compliant one party state "opposition", and FAR more of a pm than born to rule slob Bojo.
I don’t think that’s fair Iz. The Labour Left right now scream outrage at everything, it’s very selective. Yes, a poor choice I completely agree, but I can’t take Owen Jones seriously at the best of times with his selective outrage. I wonder what he will say when Starmer visits a mosque next.

 

Oh, sorry it's not fair is it? Yet it's exactly what the 'so-called' progressives in the Labour Party did whenever there was a minor gaffe by Corbyn or his frontbench.

 

I didn't exactly defend him every time (yet was still smeared for it) and despite this sometimes I felt it actually WAS worth it because the mistake was minor, understandable and there was actually some policies or a sense of a movement at risk of being set back or taken down from the attacks, therefore it was worth fighting for and supporting where legitimate. With this it's not really understandable (the fairly recent Theresa May 2017 GE incident for example), it's not minor IMO, the anger is absolutely justified, and it speaks to the complete lack of experience and competence in the top team - the same incidentally was true of Corbyn in 2015-19 - and there is complete lack of vision or anything to root for.

 

Anyway, what I think doesn't matter- the public are less and less impressed though, and that does.

 

Keir Starmer - favourability

Ex_4yrKW8AAw-34.jpg

Oh, sorry it's not fair is it? Yet it's exactly what the 'so-called' progressives in the Labour Party did whenever there was a minor gaffe by Corbyn or his frontbench.

 

I didn't exactly defend him every time (yet was still smeared for it) and despite this sometimes I felt it actually WAS worth it because the mistake was minor, understandable and there was actually some policies or a sense of a movement at risk of being set back or taken down from the attacks, therefore it was worth fighting for and supporting where legitimate. With this it's not really understandable (the fairly recent Theresa May 2017 GE incident for example), it's not minor IMO, the anger is absolutely justified, and it speaks to the complete lack of experience and competence in the top team - the same incidentally was true of Corbyn in 2015-19 - and there is complete lack of vision or anything to root for.

 

Anyway, what I think doesn't matter- the public are less and less impressed though, and that does.

 

Keir Starmer - favourability

Ex_4yrKW8AAw-34.jpg

 

Which is completely fine, as this is a bit of an own goal. I'm all of criticisng when it is due. My point was more aimed at the likes of Owen Jones who might as well be on the Tory payroll themselves. He is a massive hypocrite, Corbyn had loads of dodgy links and endorsements to well known homophobes and was on the payroll of Iran, but that's ok as it was Lord Jezza.

 

I'll totally agree with you ay the competence of the top team, it does seem to be a worrying trend at the top of the Party and seeing as the Party is so divided, it doesn't help.

Keir Starmer has - to his credit - made a full apology this evening which appears to be genuine, and it does look like this whole incident was simply an oversight/mistake (which they've been trying to row back from ever since). Let's hope his team are a bit more careful in future!

 

@1379164412632793090

It took a remarkably long time for something quite so simple. Even if it is a „holiday“ weekend
I would tend to take his word for it, I had never heard of the views of this church though would always be wary of any Christian church as they are normally opposed to progressive views like that but hate a generalised view of my own bias. It’s credible his research team may have not checked this!
I would tend to take his word for it, I had never heard of the views of this church though would always be wary of any Christian church as they are normally opposed to progressive views like that but hate a generalised view of my own bias. It’s credible his research team may have not checked this!

 

Looks like in general and the Church of England specifically, are trying to get more involved in politics to try and influence matters. Something to keep an eye, especially as we get closer to 2024.

Keir Starmer has - to his credit - made a full apology this evening which appears to be genuine, and it does look like this whole incident was simply an oversight/mistake (which they've been trying to row back from ever since). Let's hope his team are a bit more careful in future!

 

@1379164412632793090

 

Glad he apologised — although his stance on LGBT+ rights is undermined by the complete silence on Rosie Duffield, and unwillingness to discuss the issue with LGBT+ Labour staff after almost eight months of them raising it.

 

PRESS RELEASE

 

Date: Monday April 5th

1 in 3 Labour defectors think they are not offering a viable alternative

 

A nationally representative poll of over 500 ex-Labour voters by Findoutnow.co.uk reveals Sir Keir is being blamed for "point-scoring during a crisis" while "not offering a viable alternative".

 

The Labour party are also charged with being "Out of touch with the working class", while still being tainted by Corbyn, and Brexit resistance.

 

The digital pollsters targeted former Labour voters who defected to the Tories at the last general election and asked them three questions:

 

Q1. Whose performance do you think is responsible for Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour Party not doing better in the polls?

 

The Labour Party: 44%

Sir Keir Starmer: 33%

 

Only 12% put the lagging polls down to Boris' (9%) and the Tories' (3%) performance, suggesting there is more to the story than the success of the vaccine rollout.

 

The Labour Party is seen as most responsible particularly in the North West, North East and Wales (50%), but the reverse is true in Scotland, with only 32% selecting the Party, and 43% selecting Sir Keir.

 

 

 

Q2. Which of the following criticisms of the Labour Party do you agree with?

 

The following statements were sourced verbatim from the same panel of ex-Labour voters, before being categorised and put to them in a multiple choice question where they were asked to select which ones they agreed with.

 

They are tainted by Corbyn: 48% (70% in West Midlands)

Point-scoring in a crisis: 47% (59% in the Midlands)

Out of touch with the working class: 41% (50% in South East)

They resisted Brexit too much: 39% (52% among 55-64s)

Not offering a viable alternative: 37% (53% in South East)

Out of touch with voters: 36% (45% among "working-class")

Too much in-fighting: 28% (36% among "working-class")

They have undesirable factions: 21% (28% among "working-class")

Too "woke": 20% (27% among "working-class")

They are untrustworthy: 19%

Not different enough from the Tories: 11%

None of the above: 6%

 

 

 

Q3. Which of the following criticisms of Sir Keir Starmer do you agree with?

 

The following statements were sourced verbatim from the same panel of ex-Labour voters, before being categorised and put to them in a multiple choice question where they were asked to select which ones they agreed with.

 

Point-scoring in a crisis: 47% (58% in East Midlands)

Out of touch with working class: 37%

Not offering viable alternative: 34% (45% in Wales and South West)

Out of touch with voters: 32% (39% in Scotland)

Poor leader: 32% (42% in East Midlands)

Too weak / soft: 19% (24% in South East)

Too unknown: 17% (30% in Wales)

Too much like a Tory: 11%

Too centrist: 6%

None of the above: 11%

 

 

 

About the survey

 

Find Out Now interviewed 539 people online who voted for the Labour Party in 2017 and the Conservative Party in 2019 from 31 March to 4 April 2021. Data were augmented with other panelists who followed different voting patterns and weighted to be demographically representative of all UK adults by age, sex, region and past voting behaviour. Following the weighting, panelists that had not been interviewd were removed, to create a weighting representative of all voters who voted for the Labour Party in 2017 and the Conservative Party in 2019. The answer options for Q2 and Q3 were sourced from the same panel in an open-ended text format, categorised and selected based on frequency. Find Out Now is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

 

How honestly do Labour come back from this? A really depressing read. How do you offer a "viable alternative" that appeals to Corbynites and the Red Wall voters that voted Tory who still think the Party is tainted by Corbyn in 2019? And think Labour is both too woke and too similar to the Tories.

 

Labour made some really bad errors post 2010 and Brexit was seemingly the straw that broke the camels back. Going to incredibly difficult to get in to power over the next 10 years.

That poll is only Labour-to-Tory switchers, right? Quite interesting if so that as many as 11% are charging Labour for being too much like the Tories/not different enough. Of course, there are others that Labour could pick up, other party voters, non-voters, even old coalition Tories if the government continues down the road they're on with corruption.

 

As far as taking notice of that poll goes, you have to consider which of those statements is likely to mean those sorts of voters will come back to Labour. I think for example, those who are going to bring up 'point-scoring in a crisis' as a criticism given how passive Starmer has actually been have been comfortably broken into their first Tory vote and are considering themselves Tory voters now. Most of those probably also said 'woke'. Probably a lost cause chasing them back really given the Tories can give them what they want better.

 

"Not offering a viable alternative" is probably the easiest one to change, aside from hoping that time will dull the Brexit and Corbyn ones, though an reason for why those impressions have lasted this long would be Labour's inability to attach anything else memorable to itself aside from apparently infighting.

 

But overall, broadly agree, that is not a good poll for Labour's chances of winning back the electorate as the electorate's opinions currently stand.

That poll is only Labour-to-Tory switchers, right? Quite interesting if so that as many as 11% are charging Labour for being too much like the Tories/not different enough. Of course, there are others that Labour could pick up, other party voters, non-voters, even old coalition Tories if the government continues down the road they're on with corruption.

 

As far as taking notice of that poll goes, you have to consider which of those statements is likely to mean those sorts of voters will come back to Labour. I think for example, those who are going to bring up 'point-scoring in a crisis' as a criticism given how passive Starmer has actually been have been comfortably broken into their first Tory vote and are considering themselves Tory voters now. Most of those probably also said 'woke'. Probably a lost cause chasing them back really given the Tories can give them what they want better.

 

"Not offering a viable alternative" is probably the easiest one to change, aside from hoping that time will dull the Brexit and Corbyn ones, though an reason for why those impressions have lasted this long would be Labour's inability to attach anything else memorable to itself aside from apparently infighting.

 

But overall, broadly agree, that is not a good poll for Labour's chances of winning back the electorate as the electorate's opinions currently stand.

 

Yes, nail on the head! It is only a small sample size so you can't read too much in to it, but I think it's a really interesting insight piece. I know it's been discussed on the by-election thread, but it would be interesting if Labour increased their vote share from 2019 but still lost the seat. Which would show they're doing something right at least, but possibly not enough.

Keir Starmer has - to his credit - made a full apology this evening which appears to be genuine, and it does look like this whole incident was simply an oversight/mistake (which they've been trying to row back from ever since). Let's hope his team are a bit more careful in future!

 

@1379164412632793090

Has Johnson apologised for visiting the same church yet?

You expecting Tories having to apologise for anything? April day was a few days' back mate!
Only left wing parties have to apologise for dare processing out people.
The press release about Labour defectors is actually promising? Three of the biggest criticisms - Corbyn, Brexit & Point-scoring should all slowly decrease/dull as the years go on. I do think Labour will see a bounce back in the polls by the end of this year and into 2022. Thankfully we still have plenty of time before the next general election for them to try to shake off some of the criticisms aimed at them by defectors.
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