Wow, a known tory that’s skeptical of centre-left party. We’re breaking new ground here.

 

 

 

 

UDI is not the way to go, it opens the door for Spain to veto EU membership (although as long as we remain on good terms with Norway and Iceland we could go EEA quite happily - I believe this is the interim step to take so we join EEA on Independence Day and get benefits while we negotiate our seat at the decision making table).

 

Has to be in a legally recognised format. It remains to be seen if Holyrood has the power to hold it legally without a section 30, but a court case under Scots Law is the plan B. Effectively we are trying to cancel an act of the Scottish Parliament, the current parliament is a continuation of the original parliament of the Kingdom of Scotland so is it right under Scots Constitutional law that we cannot annul one of our own laws. Would be an interesting case for sure regardless of what angle the took.

 

Ultimately, the Celtics all know that the unions days are numbered. 7 years between referendums is written into the GFA, given 2021 is an election year it’d be 2022 at earliest which puts us to 7,5-8 years so given thats a bigger gap than in GFA for a border poll it can be argued sufficient time has passed for a new poll.

 

 

My view remains that democracy has to prevail, and this would be a decisive vote for a pro-indie parliament. The mandate is already quadruple locked in, this would make the noise overwhelming. You can’t deny people the right to self-determination, it’s international law. The longer the denials the louder the noise. And am fed up of English folks talking about “allowing” us to have a ref. f*** off. We entered this union by voluntary consent, we can leave the same way. We alone have a right to determine how we are governed and we alone will decide when to hold a referendum on our future governance.

 

It’s ironic how much the English chat shite about our economics adding up or how England subsidises Scotland. Like if we are that much of a burden surely you want rid so you’ve more cash? Oh yeah. They’re telling y’all lies to hold the union together. England needs Scotland more than vice versa. Make all the threats you want but you quite literally cannot survive without Scotland. You need our excess electricity production and our fresh water. And that’s before we consider that GERS includes Scotland paying for HS2 and Crossrail and other massive projects with no Barnnet consequentials that we get zero benefits from. England has used the “economics don’t add up” argument for every former colony trying to break free. There are a lot of European countries that are a similar size to Scotland and are thriving on their own. Might there be some taxation vs public service decisions to be made? Sure but that’s what elections are for, and Scotland can vote to go in whatever direction it so chooses as an independent country.

]

My view remains that democracy has to prevail, and this would be a decisive vote for a pro-indie parliament. The mandate is already quadruple locked in, this would make the noise overwhelming. You can’t deny people the right to self-determination, it’s international law. The longer the denials the louder the noise. And am fed up of English folks talking about “allowing” us to have a ref. f*** off. We entered this union by voluntary consent, we can leave the same way. We alone have a right to determine how we are governed and we alone will decide when to hold a referendum on our future governance.

I get that, but Westminster, whether it's the Tories or the opposition doesn't see it that way. We've had mandate after mandate since 2014 and that's been worth nothing to them.

Edited July 5, 20204 yr by Andrew.

Wow, a known tory that’s skeptical of centre-left party. We’re breaking new ground here.

UDI is not the way to go, it opens the door for Spain to veto EU membership (although as long as we remain on good terms with Norway and Iceland we could go EEA quite happily - I believe this is the interim step to take so we join EEA on Independence Day and get benefits while we negotiate our seat at the decision making table).

 

Has to be in a legally recognised format. It remains to be seen if Holyrood has the power to hold it legally without a section 30, but a court case under Scots Law is the plan B. Effectively we are trying to cancel an act of the Scottish Parliament, the current parliament is a continuation of the original parliament of the Kingdom of Scotland so is it right under Scots Constitutional law that we cannot annul one of our own laws. Would be an interesting case for sure regardless of what angle the took.

 

Ultimately, the Celtics all know that the unions days are numbered. 7 years between referendums is written into the GFA, given 2021 is an election year it’d be 2022 at earliest which puts us to 7,5-8 years so given thats a bigger gap than in GFA for a border poll it can be argued sufficient time has passed for a new poll.

My view remains that democracy has to prevail, and this would be a decisive vote for a pro-indie parliament. The mandate is already quadruple locked in, this would make the noise overwhelming. You can’t deny people the right to self-determination, it’s international law. The longer the denials the louder the noise. And am fed up of English folks talking about “allowing” us to have a ref. f*** off. We entered this union by voluntary consent, we can leave the same way. We alone have a right to determine how we are governed and we alone will decide when to hold a referendum on our future governance.

 

It’s ironic how much the English chat shite about our economics adding up or how England subsidises Scotland. Like if we are that much of a burden surely you want rid so you’ve more cash? Oh yeah. They’re telling y’all lies to hold the union together. England needs Scotland more than vice versa. Make all the threats you want but you quite literally cannot survive without Scotland. You need our excess electricity production and our fresh water. And that’s before we consider that GERS includes Scotland paying for HS2 and Crossrail and other massive projects with no Barnnet consequentials that we get zero benefits from. England has used the “economics don’t add up” argument for every former colony trying to break free. There are a lot of European countries that are a similar size to Scotland and are thriving on their own. Might there be some taxation vs public service decisions to be made? Sure but that’s what elections are for, and Scotland can vote to go in whatever direction it so chooses as an independent country.

 

I am not a Tory. I have no political aligence to any party.

 

What you have to remember is it's this sort of brash attitude which puts people off independence from England. I have literally just said I support another referendum and I am sceptical of the economics. It doesn't mean I am right or that I am wrong, it means I am sceptical. There are plenty of people in Scotland who don't want to leave the United Kingdom as well don't forget. Perhaps after the next election that will change, but unless the SNP win a majority I think a referendum is unlikely. And guess what the likes of Crossrail and HS2 benefit pretty much nobody in Northern England at all, but guess what, we are paying for it as well.

 

I don't know much about the legal stuff, but I'm sure the original pitch for the referendum was pitched as a generational vote? Don't get me wrong I understand why a lot of people want another independence referendum, I completely get it. I certainly think there is a better opportunity to change the relationship and the reality is that we both need each other. My own personal view is the economic arguments are very opportunistic.

Also, while I’m glad the SNP are slaying the polls, I’m worried campaigners will get too complacent when it comes to next year. With Nic’s praised handling of COVID and Boris’ not so praised handling, of course this is going to be a great period for us. In August 2015 after we won 56 seats, nine months before the Holyrood election, a poll put the SNP on 62% and many others around that time were around 60%. In the end we got 47%. There’s plenty of time for things to change, and I’d be seriously impressed if we maintained 50% of the vote.

 

I say ‘we’ as I’m still a member of the SNP until at least February although I’m not nearly passionate and unequivocal as I used to be so 💁‍♀️

Who said the majority of the North of Ireland wants to remain in the UK?? We have NEVER had the right to vote on that because the British SOS refuses to give us that mandate and so we have to cower like althe colony they force upon us with.....

The words of Professor John Curtis: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/john-cur...risis-9r7bfw5xt

 

“Never before have the foundations of public support for the union looked so weak”

 

Ooft.

Who said the majority of the North of Ireland wants to remain in the UK?? We have NEVER had the right to vote on that because the British SOS refuses to give us that mandate and so we have to cower like althe colony they force upon us with.....

 

There was a vote on it once, in 1973 (admittedly long before either of us were born), with Remain winning 99% of the vote (due to a nationalist boycott).

There was a vote on it once, in 1973 (admittedly long before either of us were born), with Remain winning 99% of the vote (due to a nationalist boycott).

 

😂 I remember reading about this once when I was doing my master and laughed at the thought, sounds a bit like an NI general election between 1920-69!

The momentum is only going to go one way from now...

 

@1293470884053823488

 

Bring it on!

They'll never allow it if there's a chance of losing. Plus the English government dictates when one will happen.

They'll never allow it if there's a chance of losing. Plus the English government dictates when one will happen.

 

Which will in itself only further support for independence... I really do think it is inevitable before 2030. Frankly, I'm fed up with the UK and won't miss it being broken up. I agree though that a vote on a United Ireland is likely to take place first- but that looks like it'll go too.

No such thing as an English government.

 

 

 

And yes this is really starting to gain sustainable momentum. Self-determination is a right enshrined in international law and something that the UK Gov screams about for Gibraltar and Falklands so has no legal moral or ethical grounds to prevent Scotland having the same right.

My views on this subject are well documented.

 

Scotland has voted in its last Westminster election but it’s ok; we will swap that voting cycle for the European elections instead.

 

 

The end of the UK is the best thing for all of its constituent countries. NI is best served in a reunified Ireland. England is best served looking after its own interests as a third rate failed state. Wales can do as it pleases, but I believe it is better freed from England too.

My views on this subject are well documented.

 

Scotland has voted in its last Westminster election but it’s ok; we will swap that voting cycle for the European elections instead.

The end of the UK is the best thing for all of its constituent countries. NI is best served in a reunified Ireland. England is best served looking after its own interests as a third rate failed state. Wales can do as it pleases, but I believe it is better freed from England too.

 

I don't know how you can call England a third world failed state! For our size we do remarkably well still. Our problem we is rely too much on importation, but I suppose this is half the grand design plan of the fabled Brexiteers. If Wales is ever freed from England it would collapse, the economies are way too intertwined, it's very different to Northern Ireland & Scotland.

 

I can't see a way Scotland is independent before 2024. That's not to say it won't happen, I just can't see it happening in that short a time frame, especially with the Tories in charge. I agree with Doctor Blind a vote on a Reunified Ireland would likely take part first. I certainly think that is on the cards within the next 10 years.

My views on this subject are well documented.

 

Scotland has voted in its last Westminster election but it’s ok; we will swap that voting cycle for the European elections instead.

The end of the UK is the best thing for all of its constituent countries. NI is best served in a reunified Ireland. England is best served looking after its own interests as a third rate failed state. Wales can do as it pleases, but I believe it is better freed from England too.

There are plenty of English people who despise Johnson and co so please don't try and suggest we are all the same. After all, I wouldn't suggest that all Scots feed exclusively on deep-fried Mars bars and have a vocabulary that extends no further than "Och aye, the noo".

I call England that because of the systemic corruption and cronyism in the government, along with the collapsing public services and beginnings of a culture war.

 

 

I don’t believe wales would collapse. I agree, the economy is far more intertwined with England than Scotland is thanks to geography but that’s not to say it wouldn’t be possible for it to fight its own path. The bigger problem as I see it is the valleys and the legacy of unemployment and decline. Wales would face an uphill battle because it needs more investment to bring it up to where it should be, what I would argue to be a key reason the union is failing Wales. Inward investment is up, and Wales drifting towards Ireland and Scotland and back to the EU would make the border a very popular place for English frontier workers to benefit from EU citizenship. The tax take would shore up Wales finances nicely.

 

 

We will have to see what 2021 has in store for us, but as of right now there isn’t the same desire or clamour in NI as there is in Scotland. End of the transition might change that dramatically. I could see a position where both NI and SCO vote on the same day to end the union. Granted technically only Scotland would be voting to end the union as the union is the act of union 1707 between Scotland and England but technicalities eh

There are plenty of English people who despise Johnson and co so please don't try and suggest we are all the same. After all, I wouldn't suggest that all Scots feed exclusively on deep-fried Mars bars and have a vocabulary that extends no further than "Och aye, the noo".

Didn’t suggest any such a thing tyvm

England does strike me as a sick country now.

 

#NotAllEnglish of course, but there are so many people there whose lives seem ruled by anger, aggression, abuse of the less fortunate, blindness as to their place in the world and the real state of the world, and everyone's old friend, denial.

 

Yes, other countries have such people too - but not nearly half the population, and nearly half the population still swearing blind in the face of all reasonable evidence facts contrary to the evidence of their own eyes and ears nearly four years later.

The momentum is only going to go one way from now...

 

@1293470884053823488

 

Bring it on!

79% Yes support amongst under 25s in that poll.

 

Lmao.

England does strike me as a sick country now.

 

#NotAllEnglish of course, but there are so many people there whose lives seem ruled by anger, aggression, abuse of the less fortunate, blindness as to their place in the world and the real state of the world, and everyone's old friend, denial.

 

Yes, other countries have such people too - but not nearly half the population, and nearly half the population still swearing blind in the face of all reasonable evidence facts contrary to the evidence of their own eyes and ears nearly four years later.

 

I don't believe this to be true at all. You will find similar traits in a lot of other countries and in the main, it is a very, very small minority. A large part of the problem in England is the fascination with World War 2. Many of the baby boomers actually think they fought in the war. As a country unfortunately, especially in my entire lifetime a lot of our opinions on the world were given to us through Rupert Murdoch and only a few forms of media.