I don’t care how much Wetherspoons raises or lowers their prices. You’d have to have a heart of stone to go back there.

Yeh, I was thinking of even offering to pay more for my hair cut just to help them out. I believe they’re charging a tiny bit extra anyway to cover the cost of the PPE.

Yes, my local barber is doing the same. They are displaying a notice to explain why they have increased their prices.

Frankly, clubs not opening but pubs opening with the implicit understanding that rules will go out the window hours in feels like just another case of the gov shitting on young people.

 

Literally every release of restrictions so far has favoured what older people like or want to do while the rest of us just have to wait in line while still actually doing the work to keep society ticking over.

 

Speak for yourself! :lol: I’d much rather be in a pub than a nightclub!

Just enjoying a nice very cold pint can of cider, £1.20 from the off-licence. You can shove your pub prices of nearly £4 a pint around here for cider. No need to give my names, no women coming on to me or drunks and can watch TV too.

 

I’m struggling to get my head around this. In England you can now:

 

Visit family members and friends, even create a bubble

Go to non essential shops

Go to the pub

Get a haircut

Go to the cinema

Hold a house viewing

Have workmen/plumbers/electricians round

Visit garden centres

Eat out/get take aways

Take part in non contact sport

Exercise whenever you want and travel as far as you want to do so

And people will be able to travel to and from around 60 countries

 

Exactly how are all of those activities for older people? I guess I don’t know how you’re defining old and and young but these are things people 18+ all tend to do? Clubs and gyms are still closed (though plenty of older people do go to the gym) so I can see that argument but theatres are still closed which I imagine is a hotspot for older people. I guess I just don’t really separate activity with age. My parents are in their early 60s and only leave the house for walks so I don’t think they see the lifting of restrictions as favourable towards them (we’re in Wales anyway so the above doesn’t count for us.)

 

In order the relaxations were:

 

Stay in your house and enjoy the weather in your garden (disproportionately benefiting the retired and homeowners)

Go for drives (benefiting only drivers)

Garden centres can open (once again benefiting homeowners and people who like gardening)

And only then after months and months sport etc.

 

This disease does not affect everyone equally. It affects PRIMARILY older people. The rest of us have been forced to sacrifice everything we enjoy doing in order to protect older people, while still working during. Sometimes while working DIRECTLY to benefit older people.

 

I would like at the very least some gratitude and recognition, because you can be damn sure if it was an illness that only affected 30s and under the gov would not be pulling out all the stops like this and dangling carrots to try and keep the at risk portion of the population obeying the rules.

 

Fact is, if you came into this lockdown already retired and owning your home, the only thing that changed is that you were no longer - for your own safety - able to see in person friends and family or go shopping or to the pub. Really very little change compared to the situation of someone who lived in a shared house in city centre with no garden and was expected to keep working full-time during. In terms of the strain on mental health there is a HUGE gulf between the two sets of experiences, and yet the rhetoric from the government and even from certain ordinary folk is that ach well, we all made the same sacrifice and it was dangerous for us all. When that wasn't at all the case.

 

And its falsehoods like that that then cause certain people to go 'well, fvck it, I've done my bit long enough and got nothing for it, why not now break ALL the rules?'

 

I’m sorry but you can’t make this blanket statement that it’s been all fine and dandy for older people compared to the young. In one way they’ve had it worse than us, because many have had to shield completely for months (while during the strictest period we could still go out once a day) AND they’re more likely to have lost peers and direct loved ones. This is coming off lowkey ageist if I’m honest.

Edited July 4, 20205 yr by Andrew.

I’m sorry but you can’t make this blanket statement that it’s been all fine and dandy for older people compared to the young. In one way they’ve had it worse than us, because many have had to shield completely for months (while during the strictest period we could still go out once a day) AND they’re more likely to have lost peers and direct loved ones. This is coming off lowkey ageist if I’m honest.

 

 

Totally agree. Also the age group that uses Maccy D's and other takeaways and have deliveries via apps the most too is the under 40's I once read so hardly the older generations.

I’m sorry but you can’t make this blanket statement that it’s been all fine and dandy for older people compared to the young. In one way they’ve had it worse than us, because many have had to shield completely for months (while during the strictest period we could still go out once a day) AND they’re more likely to have lost peers and direct loved ones. This is coming off lowkey ageist if I’m honest.

 

Yeah I also agree, I don't think any of the loosening of the rules have benefited old people directly? The worst people affected are those the ones who have to shield.

 

Lots of people own their own homes who are working and retired. And lots of people renting homes also have gardens too. Everyone has had to make sacrafices, some more than others but for the most part we have all had to do our bit - and the cost of it we will all be fuding through the increased prices for recreational goods and services. Most of which I'm sure we are happy to pay in the short term, but when we have a huge recession it's going to affect the lower-middle incomes again. The major way it will affect young people is through lack of jobs and more experienced candidates applying for the same roles.

I am making an observation about policy and demographics in the country. That is all.

 

I am not saying that I PERSONALLY feel these things.

 

Although I will say I don't understand the lack of outrage and frustration from so many. Like. I guess in a sense it's admirable to just keep keeping on while the gov rides roughshod over the population. The work does need done, but like... I really struggle with the fact that the ask has been from our employers to just keep working exactly as much as we used to, except minus any of the things that otherwise made our lives worth living. It's like they've been explicit about the fact that they want us to be profit-turning robots.

I am making an observation about policy and demographics in the country. That is all.

 

I am not saying that I PERSONALLY feel these things.

 

Although I will say I don't understand the lack of outrage and frustration from so many. Like. I guess in a sense it's admirable to just keep keeping on while the gov rides roughshod over the population. The work does need done, but like... I really struggle with the fact that the ask has been from our employers to just keep working exactly as much as we used to, except minus any of the things that otherwise made our lives worth living. It's like they've been explicit about the fact that they want us to be profit-turning robots.

 

Yeah but I also don’t really understand your frustration as the Government have pretty much done exactly the same thing (with the odd differences) as the rest of the world? Not sure what you’re getting out here if I am honest as none of the issues you talk about are related to coronavirus.

It was off on a tangent following a previous comment. I've said my piece, if you wish we can close the book on it now.

 

The logical trail was:

Pubs open but clubs closed = gov disenfranchising young folk

>> Othr examples of having done so during the crisis

>> The fact that this was justified as a common sacrifice that everyone was making the same when actually it led to people in different economic circumstances actually experiencing two very different shades of lockdown.

 

This was then challenged as me personally being ageist, that old chestnut.

It is ridiculous to suggest the order of loosening restrictions was decided just to benefit older people though. I’ve disagreed with how soon restrictions have lifted and the specific day for opening pubs but generally they’ve been lifted in and order that is safe give or take a few things.

 

The garden thing disadvantaged some, yes, but you’ve always been allowed out for exercise no matter what your age. A lot of old people don’t have gardens either.

Driving is an odd thing to complain about. Drivers are any age from 17 up and many older people don’t drive, particularly very old people who use public transport.

Garden centres have a lot of open air space and it was the time of year people do gardening.

Sport was always going to come later because a lot of it is contact and some of it indoors.

 

I don’t think young people deserve any special gratitude they’re not getting already. Lots of elderly people in my community are very grateful when younger people shop for them. My parents have been so grateful for me dropping off prescriptions and shopping. My grandparents, who I can only go and see from Monday and haven’t seen their family since February and are in their mid 80s can’t speak more highly of the help they’ve had from younger people on their street.

 

Fact is this had been no picnic for anyone. Everyone has done their bit. If you think it’s been fine for older people just because their lives are like this anyway, we’ll then perhaps you should feel a bit of sympathy for them now knowing how their lives normally are. And perhaps it’s you who should be expressing gratitude that your ‘normal’ life is more exciting.

 

I’m afraid I do sort of agree with Andrew that it’s all coming off a bit ageist.

 

I'm not going to get drawn into this discussion because it feels like this is a trap to be sprung in order to make me into the bad guy.

 

If you guys don't want to acknowledge the gaps in our society, then that's fine. I can't force it.

 

I will say that I don't think it's ridiculous that the gov chose things to benefit older people when that is their day to day MO. Meaning, the Tory government, not the government in general as an insitution, before anyone takes that the wrong way.

 

As for not deserving any special gratitude...you realise that you're advocating for the gov to be able to make any demand of workers at any time while offering no kind of extra carrot whatsoever? In fact some workers have been expected to actually add to their workloads for LESS money. Why are people happy to accept that? In my eyes, that's the sign of a sick society with social contract in tatters.

I really don't see how you can read so much into pubs being opened before nightclubs? There's a very clear difference between the two, to me at least. Yes, the demographics between the two may differ, but a pub is certainly a lot more manageable than a nightclub.

I really don't see how you can read so much into pubs being opened before nightclubs? There's a very clear difference between the two, to me at least. Yes, the demographics between the two may differ, but a pub is certainly a lot more manageable than a nightclub.

 

It was meant to be a flippant comment.

I'm not going to get drawn into this discussion because it feels like this is a trap to be sprung in order to make me into the bad guy.

 

If you guys don't want to acknowledge the gaps in our society, then that's fine. I can't force it.

 

I will say that I don't think it's ridiculous that the gov chose things to benefit older people when that is their day to day MO. Meaning, the Tory government, not the government in general as an insitution, before anyone takes that the wrong way.

 

It’s not a trap, some of us are just struggling to see your point of view. At present it comes across like you have a chip on your shoulder about older generations. Saying you’re not going to discuss it further isn’t going to help us see your point of view. You know how critical 99% of us have been about the government and their handling of everything on here. I’m not sure if you’re suggesting clubs should have been open before people could drive/go to garden centres or anything because that just seems absurd to me.

 

Clubbing and going to the gym are not the only things young people live for. There are many things people could do during lockdown within their own homes to keep them occupied. Also if you’re complaining that young people had to work alongside this, then perhaps you could appreciate the fact that you still have a job throughout all this. I know I do. My colleague’s husband was furloughed and has now been let go. He’s 55 and will probably struggle to get another job following this.

 

I welcome you trying to explain this in any way you can, but refusing to speak of it won’t alter what I’m already left thinking, I’m afraid.

I can see why someone might think younger people have sacrificed a lot for the greater good, but it's hard to see how it could have been otherwise. The order in which things have reopened has been broadly logical although the government should have spent more time over the last three months thinking about the best way to get schools up and running again.

 

I think a lot of older people appreciate what individual younger people have done to help them. Whether that changes their perception of younger people in general remains to be seen.

I'm not going to get drawn into this discussion because it feels like this is a trap to be sprung in order to make me into the bad guy.

 

If you guys don't want to acknowledge the gaps in our society, then that's fine. I can't force it.

 

I will say that I don't think it's ridiculous that the gov chose things to benefit older people when that is their day to day MO. Meaning, the Tory government, not the government in general as an insitution, before anyone takes that the wrong way.

 

As for not deserving any special gratitude...you realise that you're advocating for the gov to be able to make any demand of workers at any time while offering no kind of extra carrot whatsoever? In fact some workers have been expected to actually add to their workloads for LESS money. Why are people happy to accept that? In my eyes, that's the sign of a sick society with social contract in tatters.

 

I really don’t know what you’re getting at, I don’t think any of us in this thread are a fan of this Conservative government but most governments would have followed exactly the same pattern? Left and right wing governments across Europe have done exactly the same thing too.

 

Most frontline workers have had extra payments given to them during the first 12 weeks as a recognition for what they were doing in the private sector at least, which is perfectly fine and is only right. In any job you work people will try and squeeze costs with fantastic business cliches such as “fast and agile workplace”, “we need to do more with less” etc. etc.

I don't have an issue with older generations, to be clear.

 

I have an issue with the government falsely making out for months and months that everyone is experiencing the same lockdown when that is not the case. That when you are retired and have an assured income, and a house and a garden, your experience of a lockdown is much less trying than for the same person living in insecure accommodation and still expected to work full-time for the same or less pay.

 

Older folk can't help that the experience is different any more than younger folk can.

 

However, the fact is that in order to safeguard older folk, younger and poorer people and those in insecure work or living situation have made the biggest sacrifice. At no point has the government acknowledged this. At no point was an incentive offered to make that sacrifice a little easier on those workers, apart from the patronising 'clap for carers'.

I can see why someone might think younger people have sacrificed a lot for the greater good, but it's hard to see how it could have been otherwise. The order in which things have reopened has been broadly logical although the government should have spent more time over the last three months thinking about the best way to get schools up and running again.

 

I think a lot of older people appreciate what individual younger people have done to help them. Whether that changes their perception of younger people in general remains to be seen.

 

Thank you! That was the point I was getting at.

 

There is a generational divide, politically in this country, in terms of who is voted for and who policies primarily serve. (a separate, but related issue to covid)

 

The fact that younger folk were now having to sacrifice to help elders could have been a great opportunity to mend that gap to an extent IF it was drawn attention to by the government or by the media. If the narrative had been one of 'millennials have been so responsible when push comes to shove' etc.