You could say goodbye to the economy and people’s mental health then if you’re waiting for it to go to 0. It could take years in most areas. That’s not living.

You could say goodbye to the economy and people’s mental health then if you’re waiting for it to go to 0. It could take years in most areas. That’s not living.

 

Nobody has argued for that have they? It may have been possible at some point (see: New Zealand) but obviously is impossible now. I think a low level in the community like over the summer (and in parts of the south currently) is the best we can hope for. That could be the best we could achieve for many years. After all, a vaccine seems less likely to be viable (apart from a yearly dose) given there have been cases of reinfection.

Here's how I would do a lockdown.

 

Local lockdowns only.

 

Pubs, bars, restaurants, gyms, leisure centres, non-essential shops, public sport, garages, museums, libraries ie. all close.

 

Schools, universities, colleges and churches remain open.

 

Sport continues behind closed doors.

 

People must not leave the area in question unless it is a reasonable excuse.

 

Restrictions can only be lifted when the areas have gone right down to zero cases, it could take months at least but imo it is the only way.

Good luck with persuading people to wait until cases are down to zero while other areas are still not under lockdown because the numbers were never deemed to be high enough.

 

The restrictions on leaving an area have been done in many countries around the world. The difference is that most democratic countries have a far more regional structure than the UK. They have regional governments with a lot of power. As a result, people identify with their region. Here, we have local governments with almost no power at all, so people don't take much notice of what the leaders say. Indeed, most people have no idea who their local council leader even is.

You could say goodbye to the economy and people’s mental health then if you’re waiting for it to go to 0. It could take years in most areas. That’s not living.

 

The economy would be pretty screwed if people’s health isn’t good either and people are self isolating

Nobody has argued for that have they? It may have been possible at some point (see: New Zealand) but obviously is impossible now. I think a low level in the community like over the summer (and in parts of the south currently) is the best we can hope for. That could be the best we could achieve for many years. After all, a vaccine seems less likely to be viable (apart from a yearly dose) given there have been cases of reinfection.

Sorry it was bad timing of posting! It was in reference to zenon’s post that Suedehead has quoted above. Will teach me to quote next time!

The main problem as I see it is that due to ideaology/chumocracy/corruption the Government have ignored better judgement that would have seen investment in a more regional and local test and trace programme, and instead wasted huge sums of money on their mates in the private sector to run an inadequate test and trace operation that can hardly be described as “world-beating”. Because of this even if people did take the advice about self-isolating seriously it would have only a little impact, but as it stands only around 1/5 are.

 

If that doesn't change, having a national lockdown will not solve anything and potentially cause greater unintended harm. However, because we may at some point move dangerously close to exceeding capacity in the NHS it may become unavoidable.

 

We can probably manage with a low level of virus in circulation within the community BUT strict adherence to social distancing, working from home, masks etc. and University tuition should have been entirely remote for 2020/21 with NO students in campuses. But like the article I posted in the University funding thread... the rentier interests took priority over health and education; the virus has exposed brutually what has ALWAYS been the case.

Local authorities have been saying for months that they should be running the track and trace programme. They all have staff who are used to doing that for STIs. They have staff who know the local area. However, we have a government that treats local government with even more disdain than previous governments have done. They also have a ideological fixation on the idea that the private sector is always the best solution. The last six months has shown how catastrophically wrong that assumption can be,

The UK's situation can be solved quite quickly/readily, but the government refuse to do the right thing and instead continue to act in the interests of their friends/donors and such. For as long as the current incompetent government are in power, things aren't going to get much better. In fact things will likely get a lot worse once we're in the middle of winter.

Nobody has argued for that have they? It may have been possible at some point (see: New Zealand) but obviously is impossible now. I think a low level in the community like over the summer (and in parts of the south currently) is the best we can hope for. That could be the best we could achieve for many years. After all, a vaccine seems less likely to be viable (apart from a yearly dose) given there have been cases of reinfection.

 

I think that is very bleak though and that re-infection case is complete hyperbole. You could have an article saying 10m people have not been reinfected either. It's way too early to start making these types of calls. My friend has suspected Covid in April before mass testing. Living with 2 friends both attended same social events, those 2 test positive and she tests negative. There's clearly going to be some community transmission going forward in low levels, but evidence points towards there being either a vaccine to protect the vulnerable at least.

The UK's situation can be solved quite quickly/readily, but the government refuse to do the right thing and instead continue to act in the interests of their friends/donors and such. For as long as the current incompetent government are in power, things aren't going to get much better. In fact things will likely get a lot worse once we're in the middle of winter.

 

 

How can it be solved quite quickly and readily?

Honestly, as brutal as it is, if we are serious about controlling the virus we HAVE to lock people down when they are self-isolating. I've seen numerous stories from friends where one person is waiting on a result, still visits the pub and people, ends up spreading to 15-20 people.

 

 

I read yesterday that in a survey less than a third of those who are supposed to self-isolate bother to do so. They need to go to work or to take kids to school or just want to socialise etc. If they're not too ill they don't see the point in isolating. So there's a big part of the problem. You can't force people to self-isolate really.

NI have announced a 4 week circuit breaker

I read yesterday that in a survey less than a third of those who are supposed to self-isolate bother to do so. They need to go to work or to take kids to school or just want to socialise etc. If they're not too ill they don't see the point in isolating. So there's a big part of the problem. You can't force people to self-isolate really.

 

If people chose to do this even with symptoms as you say then it’s the height of ignorance and selfishness after 8 months of a pandemic where they clearly now know the risks. They should be sought out by the law and fined. But I would like to see your ‘source’ here Chris.

If people chose to do this even with symptoms as you say then it’s the height of ignorance and selfishness after 8 months of a pandemic where they clearly now know the risks. They should be sought out by the law and fined. But I would like to see your ‘source’ here Chris.

 

I'm pretty sure it is true, I think it has come from some of the ONS stuff. It's a huge problem as the current Test & Trace does not find everyone and I don't think they are hard enough on people who are positive.

 

Anyway from PMQs today, seems this Tiered system will be rolled out. I still say that from Boris' talk a circuit breaker feels inevitable. More and more countries are doing it.

Public trust and compliance was eroded when Cummings remained in position. Only ever going to go downhill from there.

I read that as ‘in prison’ first. Brain reads what it wants to read I guess.

I read yesterday that in a survey less than a third of those who are supposed to self-isolate bother to do so. They need to go to work or to take kids to school or just want to socialise etc. If they're not too ill they don't see the point in isolating. So there's a big part of the problem. You can't force people to self-isolate really.

 

It's actually less than this, 20%.

 

@1309148871730368518

 

You can't blame the public though, some people really just can't do so easily, and then there are the massively unhelpful signals being given out by allowing MPs and government advisors to carry on despite breaking the same rules.

Public trust and compliance was eroded when Cummings remained in position. Only ever going to go downhill from there.

 

Totally. What remote credibility this government may have had in anyone's eyes was diminished when they didn't sack him.

@1316413190704594952

@1316416993457823744

 

More shameful cronyism — and all on a failing system. I don’t want to hear about what the country can and cannot afford when this government continues to spend millions (and beyond) on their friends. During a pandemic.

I see they were taking notes from Russia. A for effort, D for letting those documents get leaked. :angry:

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by ɥɔʇᴉʍ

Manchester pretty much confirmed for tier 3 and London for tier 2 :(.