One of my friends messaged this morning to say she literally cried

I also love how it wasn’t even close! Although I would errr on the side of caution that Manchester is up there with Brighton as being a very liberal place - it will obviously be closer in other places

3 minutes ago, Herbs said:

One of my friends messaged this morning to say she literally cried

I also love how it wasn’t even close! Although I would errr on the side of caution that Manchester is up there with Brighton as being a very liberal place - it will obviously be closer in other places

I guess the Green's will probably do well in a lot of usual left-leaning Labour areas - like London.

But yeah Reform will eat into other areas which feel disenfranchised with Labour/ the Tories - with the Lib Dems doing the same for the Tories in other areas.

The May Local elections are going to be interesting - especially to see if the Green's can make some good gains.

It feels refreshing to wake up to news which isn't about Reform winning - certainly takes away any supposed momentum pedalled by the right-wing media.

Yeh there’s a lot of factors involved, Labour still got 9k votes and they are the incumbent - in a GE their machine in these so called safe seats could mean they would win imo but it’s great to see Greens hopefully giving them a kick up the arse and hopefully they learn they should be looking leftwards and not just rightward in terms of their policies in government

Amazing news 💚

That's a really bitter pill for Starmer to swallow though, and there's no sugarcoating it.

I gold y'all we needed Corbyn, that leftist policies were popular...

Like I told y'all 1000 veces, centrism is DEAD AND DONE.

Greens aren't to my liking, rhey are useless and full of Tories, but this is far better than Rwform winning. But people should have held their nerve and voted Labour srill. However, this result makes it more likely Labour will shift course back to Corbynism, sooo

Good thing about Polanski they can’t come at him with the antisemetic smear like they did with Corbyn so he’s free to tell the truth about Palestine. No doubt they’ll find something else though….

The Tories losing their deposit. hahahaha. Honestly that has made my day!

Honestly just great to see such an amazing candidate win on a hopeful platform that defeats the rhetoric of the far-right, when the legacy media were all working against her.

You'd hope Starmer would now completely change course and tack left, but I don't hold any hope of that whatsoever. Failing to recognise or even just not be completely deaf to the voting coalition that put them there in the first place has finally come to bite them. The weakness of blocking Burnham standing just epitomises his premiership. All the wrong decisions, capitulating to the smallest pressure and ending up in the worst possible position, every single time. Just for example in recent weeks when they were forced into holding the elections that they were going to delay. Trying to claim that they were always for removing the two child benefit cap when in reality they were forced into that position by the PLP and pressure from the left.. and when a year ago they were suspending MPs who voted for the SNP amendment, I'm sorry but they are reaping what they sowed.

I think it's clear that Starmer will be gone after the disasterous May local elections. I guess we'll have Wes 'startled pigeon face' Streeting to look forward to. 😔

2 hours ago, Steve201 said:

Good thing about Polanski they can’t come at him with the antisemetic smear like they did with Corbyn so he’s free to tell the truth about Palestine. No doubt they’ll find something else though….

The EXTREME centrists called Bernie Sanders an anti semite to promote Joe Biden lmaooo, as they saw it wprked vs Corbyn. It really won't stop them

2 hours ago, Doctor Blind said:

The Tories losing their deposit. hahahaha. Honestly that has made my day!

Honestly just great to see such an amazing candidate win on a hopeful platform that defeats the rhetoric of the far-right, when the legacy media were all working against her.

You'd hope Starmer would now completely change course and tack left, but I don't hold any hope of that whatsoever. Failing to recognise or even just not be completely deaf to the voting coalition that put them there in the first place has finally come to bite them. The weakness of blocking Burnham standing just epitomises his premiership. All the wrong decisions, capitulating to the smallest pressure and ending up in the worst possible position, every single time. Just for example in recent weeks when they were forced into holding the elections that they were going to delay. Trying to claim that they were always for removing the two child benefit cap when in reality they were forced into that position by the PLP and pressure from the left.. and when a year ago they were suspending MPs who voted for the SNP amendment, I'm sorry but they are reaping what they sowed.

I think it's clear that Starmer will be gone after the disasterous May local elections. I guess we'll have Wes 'startled pigeon face' Streeting to look forward to. 😔

Extreme centeists are boggled by the left. They don't understand that centrism is dead. It's all they have, and so they will NEVER countenance tracking left.

Both Reform and Labour acting like complete sore losers today as well, in that famous way of getting people to like you:

I mean it's expected of Reform to go delve into standard issue right populist reality-denying claiming that the other side cheated (the 'family voting' thing they've been spreading around the media is the most horrific dogwhistle), but for Labour and Starmer to insist that 'no, it's the voters who are wrong', to not even have the decency to congratulate Spencer on her appointment, and show no signs of contrition or change of tack even as their strategy implodes around them, they're deeply deeply out of touch.

Shows very clearly to voters like myself, who would be wavering between Labour and the Greens at the next election in order to best use my vote, that the current Labour leadership is contemptuous of my even daring to pick the other choice.

Fantastic news to wake up to this morning! It definitely seemed to take better advantage of the urban, liberal areas dissatisfied with Labour which won't necessarily be the same for other Reform seats, but great for the Greens either way and it not being even close when it was forecase to be is even better.

I guess it's less disastrous for Labour than if Reform had won, but still disastrous, I agree I can't see how Starmer lasts beyond the inevitable local election Labour wipeout. Y'know, maybe if he stopped trying to cater to a faction that will slate him in any case and to please everyone and pleasing no one...

Lol at Farage claiming 'family voting', poor thing was really hoping for those headlines x

I don't think this tells us much more than we did not already know at this stage. Don't think you can read too much in to anything .

Fair play to the Greens, but it's complete fantasy politics at the moment as a protest vote, much like Reform are finding out. Helps they have a good local candidate too. When you actually start to define proper policies and have them scrutinised they either end up being watered down (see Reform) or dropped (see Reform). Then you're just left with a group of Leaders who are all a slightly dodgy who know how to use TikTok.

I'm not sure Labour should or need to pivot to the left - I think that just opens the door to Reform. Clearly Starmer is looking really weak here and he probably needs a covid/Ukraine crisis to survive and increase his popularity as he does handle statesman affairs very well. I can't see him leading Labour in the next general election though, especially if Mandelson gets charged. Clearly the May elections are going to be fairly brutal, but I think this just tells us there is no loyalty in politics, people are voting based on vibes and as a country were are very fractured in our political beliefs and makeup!

1 hour ago, Rooney said:

I don't think this tells us much more than we did not already know at this stage. Don't think you can read too much in to anything .

Fair play to the Greens, but it's complete fantasy politics at the moment as a protest vote, much like Reform are finding out. Helps they have a good local candidate too. When you actually start to define proper policies and have them scrutinised they either end up being watered down (see Reform) or dropped (see Reform). Then you're just left with a group of Leaders who are all a slightly dodgy who know how to use TikTok.

I'm not sure Labour should or need to pivot to the left - I think that just opens the door to Reform. Clearly Starmer is looking really weak here and he probably needs a covid/Ukraine crisis to survive and increase his popularity as he does handle statesman affairs very well. I can't see him leading Labour in the next general election though, especially if Mandelson gets charged. Clearly the May elections are going to be fairly brutal, but I think this just tells us there is no loyalty in politics, people are voting based on vibes and as a country were are very fractured in our political beliefs and makeup!

Okay, so Rooney, I think this is a refusal to look at the mood of the country and voters in general, as it stands. What are Labour standing for right now? They have completely abandoned their base of voters, and pivoting to the left would be the bare minimum aimed at keeping some of those voters onside. The headlines about Mahmood sticking to immigration policy despite by-election defeat look ludicrously stubborn. Reform are coming up against their ceiling, they DON'T have good local candidates and they're stuck at this high 20s/low 30s number where beyond that, people see them beyond the pale.

In terms of numbers, we know at least before this that probably enough people still considering voting Labour were open to the Greens enough for the Greens to swap positions with Labour in the polls. This result proves the validity of Greens being able to win anywhere that has a Labour seat, potentially, and as such provides people dissatisfied with Labour but without another left option to vote for, that other left option. That's what I think the long-term of this result will be, a potential break on the former Green ceiling. They now have the confidence to go everywhere and I think really have the focus and enthusiasm to decimate Labour's inner-city seats.

Starmer is Hollande, I've said it before, but the parallels here are spooky and he is on his way to destroy the Labour Party in the same manner as PS got destroyed. Labour Together's alleged mission was to ensure that Labour would win, yet they've moved it away from the values of the people who vote for it and consequently are heading it on a path almost certain for destruction.

2 hours ago, Rooney said:

I don't think this tells us much more than we did not already know at this stage. Don't think you can read too much in to anything .

Fair play to the Greens, but it's complete fantasy politics at the moment as a protest vote, much like Reform are finding out. Helps they have a good local candidate too. When you actually start to define proper policies and have them scrutinised they either end up being watered down (see Reform) or dropped (see Reform). Then you're just left with a group of Leaders who are all a slightly dodgy who know how to use TikTok.

I'm not sure Labour should or need to pivot to the left - I think that just opens the door to Reform. Clearly Starmer is looking really weak here and he probably needs a covid/Ukraine crisis to survive and increase his popularity as he does handle statesman affairs very well. I can't see him leading Labour in the next general election though, especially if Mandelson gets charged. Clearly the May elections are going to be fairly brutal, but I think this just tells us there is no loyalty in politics, people are voting based on vibes and as a country were are very fractured in our political beliefs and makeup!

They need to go left. Corbyn was extremely popular before the press and elite establishment char assassination.

50 minutes ago, Iz様 🌟 said:

Okay, so Rooney, I think this is a refusal to look at the mood of the country and voters in general, as it stands. What are Labour standing for right now? They have completely abandoned their base of voters, and pivoting to the left would be the bare minimum aimed at keeping some of those voters onside. The headlines about Mahmood sticking to immigration policy despite by-election defeat look ludicrously stubborn. Reform are coming up against their ceiling, they DON'T have good local candidates and they're stuck at this high 20s/low 30s number where beyond that, people see them beyond the pale.

In terms of numbers, we know at least before this that probably enough people still considering voting Labour were open to the Greens enough for the Greens to swap positions with Labour in the polls. This result proves the validity of Greens being able to win anywhere that has a Labour seat, potentially, and as such provides people dissatisfied with Labour but without another left option to vote for, that other left option. That's what I think the long-term of this result will be, a potential break on the former Green ceiling. They now have the confidence to go everywhere and I think really have the focus and enthusiasm to decimate Labour's inner-city seats.

Starmer is Hollande, I've said it before, but the parallels here are spooky and he is on his way to destroy the Labour Party in the same manner as PS got destroyed. Labour Together's alleged mission was to ensure that Labour would win, yet they've moved it away from the values of the people who vote for it and consequently are heading it on a path almost certain for destruction.

People care about the cost of living and the economy. And I dare say this time in 12 months they will decide they need to do something to re-ignite the housing Market. I agree Labour are trying to do too many things at the moment, but Labour has always been a broadhouse of ideas and the best Leaders are the ones who can leep everyone in check. People are fed up so they get tempted by populism - quick wins to problems people want solving - I understand the attraction!

I think this idea that the Greens can win anywhere is complete fantasy. Yes, they will have a chance in a lot of consitintuencies but a vote in a council election or a by-election is a completely different prospect verses a general election. It will be "Vote Green, Get Reform". I'm actually surprised at how many people have been bought in by Polanski's populism. He's got great communication skills but at the end of the day he is just a populist. Clearly a decent guy and not like Farage and right-wing populism, but say the things people want to hear and you will get votes and traction. There are too many things they trip up on when pressed by the mainstream media (Nato, Russia, Nuclear Energy) . Many of our problems are extremely complex and the simple solutions proposed are not workable. He's not strong enough to persuade large bands of middle voters (e.g. me) and his economic knowledge is scarilly weak. The fact he refuses (or does not know) to answer simple economic questions is surpising. Oh and never trust someone who goes by a fake name :D

2 hours ago, Rooney said:

People care about the cost of living and the economy. And I dare say this time in 12 months they will decide they need to do something to re-ignite the housing Market. I agree Labour are trying to do too many things at the moment, but Labour has always been a broadhouse of ideas and the best Leaders are the ones who can leep everyone in check. People are fed up so they get tempted by populism - quick wins to problems people want solving - I understand the attraction!

I think this idea that the Greens can win anywhere is complete fantasy. Yes, they will have a chance in a lot of consitintuencies but a vote in a council election or a by-election is a completely different prospect verses a general election. It will be "Vote Green, Get Reform". I'm actually surprised at how many people have been bought in by Polanski's populism. He's got great communication skills but at the end of the day he is just a populist. Clearly a decent guy and not like Farage and right-wing populism, but say the things people want to hear and you will get votes and traction. There are too many things they trip up on when pressed by the mainstream media (Nato, Russia, Nuclear Energy) . Many of our problems are extremely complex and the simple solutions proposed are not workable. He's not strong enough to persuade large bands of middle voters (e.g. me) and his economic knowledge is scarilly weak. The fact he refuses (or does not know) to answer simple economic questions is surpising. Oh and never trust someone who goes by a fake name :D

They are only complex to you because you don’t belive in a more equal economic system so you demean people like Polanski and JC because you don’t want that system.

Why is it a fantasy that the Greens can win anywhere when they just won a seat which wasn’t in their top 100 targets and one which is in a Labour heartland with a huge local Labour machine. People most likely had this dismissive view pre 1914 about Labour “they’ll never win outside of South Wales/Manchester/Glasgow or other trade union seats.

Edited Saturday at 16:203 days by Steve201

1 hour ago, Steve201 said:

They are only complex to you because you don’t belive in a more equal economic system so you demean people like Polanski and JC because you don’t want that system.

Why is it a fantasy that the Greens can win anywhere when they just won a seat which wasn’t in their top 100 targets and one which is in a Labour heartland with a huge local Labour machine. People most likely had this dismissive view pre 1914 about Labour “they’ll never win outside of South Wales/Manchester/Glasgow or other trade union seats.

I don't think they are only complext to me, a lot of our problems are deep rooted societal challenges which are not going to be solved in 5 years. We have to face the facts we have an aging population, a publicly funded health system, adult social care costs only going to spiral and AI likely to increase unemployment. Just saying "tax the rich", "make the 1% pay more", "bring everything under public ownership!" are ignoring inter-connected societal issues. A lot of it is pure populism, and whether you like it or not, unless you completely change the system Brexit style. Fair play - I get it! I understand why people are attracted to it at face value, but don't see a way this starts some form of Green revolution. Perhaps it may make Labour re-think their strategy somewhat, or their messaging/pivot.

I wouldn't trust Polanski with my shopping trolley, never mind the economy. I don't want this to feel like I am attacking left wing policies, I am socially very left wing, but certainly far more right on the economy. I think there are some good long term practices that could be done, but the Greens under Polanski is pure left wing populism, much like Farage hooked the right in with populism before he tried to actually get some MPs and realise he's got the worst types of MPs. It would be exactly like the Greens too, probably get a load of people in who helped enable the worst foreign policy of the last 30 years, just like the Reform have done.

I think it's a bit dismissive to call the greens winning due to a protest vote/fantasy politics. They've been gaining a lot of ground in the last year or so which is being reflected in polling and the by-election. I think it's more so due to a shift of the labour-left now moving their votes to the green party and not as a protest but as a genuine movement to a different party after they've seen what Labour have been doing in the last year or two.

It's a positive thing overall as it shows there is a demand for more left-wing politics and that it should hopefully help direct labour more to the centre-left. Otherwise I'm hoping the next election we could see a 4-5 party split that leads to Greens/Lib Dems/Labour "coalition" with support from thes like of the SNP/Plaid Cymru + independents for certain areas. Perhaps finally get proportional representation through the next parliament as it would be in the interest of all parties except labour/cons which are unlikely going to be a majority between them.

1 hour ago, Envoirment said:

I think it's a bit dismissive to call the greens winning due to a protest vote/fantasy politics. They've been gaining a lot of ground in the last year or so which is being reflected in polling and the by-election. I think it's more so due to a shift of the labour-left now moving their votes to the green party and not as a protest but as a genuine movement to a different party after they've seen what Labour have been doing in the last year or two.

It's a positive thing overall as it shows there is a demand for more left-wing politics and that it should hopefully help direct labour more to the centre-left. Otherwise I'm hoping the next election we could see a 4-5 party split that leads to Greens/Lib Dems/Labour "coalition" with support from thes like of the SNP/Plaid Cymru + independents for certain areas. Perhaps finally get proportional representation through the next parliament as it would be in the interest of all parties except labour/cons which are unlikely going to be a majority between them.

But this is part of my point - if it comes down to a general election, are you really going to lend your vote to Greens vs Labour? Like I say, vote Green, Get Reform. They are riding on a wave of discontent and optimism, just like Reform have done. Loads of Polanski's soundbites are great, but he doesn't have the answer to difficult questions and their policies are (just like Reform's were 12 months ago) are just populism, appealing to people who lean left. They are a great idea on paper, but as soon as Polanski gets put under some serious scrutiny, good journalists will tie him in knots on key issues and certainly international politics regarding Russia.

I don't think we will ever get to a Labour/Green/Lib Dem coalition, possibly with Lib Dem/Labour but there are far too many key issues the Greens disagree on. Not sure that would be a healthy working relationship and even the Lib Dems might decide not to get in bed with Labour after selling out to the Tories previously.