US, Canada, Japan, China etc etc.

So. all those countries that are at best equal in size to the EU (the USA), but mostly weaker than the EU. In other words, the EU can negotiate with them from a position of strength. The UK, OTOH, are a piddly little island nation. Of course, if Scotland and/or Northern Ireland leave, it will be even more piddly.

General election incoming in early December then...

 

@1186737952313004032

Macron said to be unhappy with Tusks proposal. Key word there being unhappy, implies he will be grumpy but go with it. They just spunked any political capital they had on vetoing opening formal membership processes for Albania and North Macedonia so don’t have anything to spend on trying to veto an extension

Well it's true though isn't it.. the October 31st deadline is purely a strategic movement for a general election. This is an absolutely monumental descision and giving people a few days and no economic risk assessment is just f***ing ridiculous. These people don't care about anyone that is voting for them. Basically pushing something through which is going to make us all poorer. Honestly, the naivety in some people is ridiculous. Their lives will be no different on November 1st regardless of what happens, there's no going to be a magic money tree which grows.

Completely agree Roo. The timetable suggests they had malicious intentions they didn’t want found out by a close examination

Macron said to be unhappy with Tusks proposal. Key word there being unhappy, implies he will be grumpy but go with it. They just spunked any political capital they had on vetoing opening formal membership processes for Albania and North Macedonia so don’t have anything to spend on trying to veto an extension

 

He's been unhappy at every extension request, but should approve. He and the rest of the EU know a no deal would be a very bad thing, especially given the EU & UK's current economic situations.

Completely agree Roo. The timetable suggests they had malicious intentions they didn’t want found out by a close examination

 

 

No they didn't. Boris wanted to implement the will of the British people to leave the EU and he should be commended for that. MP's are just standing in his way. Well bring on an election and a majority for Boris and he can do what he likes then.

Oh dear, you’ve reset into Tory propoganda puppet mode

 

He's paused the bill to no doubt try to persuade the EU not to give an extension.

 

I don't agree with him pausing it at all when they could be discussing it tomorrow. Bad mistake Boris lad. He's acting like a petulant child as the timetable went against what he wanted.

 

No they didn't. Boris wanted to implement the will of the British people to leave the EU and he should be commended for that. MP's are just standing in his way. Well bring on an election and a majority for Boris and he can do what he likes then.

 

It is an MPs job to protect their constituents and the country. Making such a monumentous descison without reading the full impact and legislation is ridiculous. You wouldn't buy a house without knowing all the risks and variables. Many MPs voted for the Deal because they are worried about losing their cushy salaried job in their constituency. I've said it before, I can live with a Brexit, but pushing one through just because of the "will of the people" is utter bullshit. You don't make a descison this with generational consequences without knowing the full impact.

 

f*** these Tories, I think they will rightly find it difficult to het the majority they hope for.

No they didn't. Boris wanted to implement the will of the British people to leave the EU and he should be commended for that. MP's are just standing in his way. Well bring on an election and a majority for Boris and he can do what he likes then.

Johnson promised to include protection of workers' rights in the Bill. There is nothing in there on that subject.

 

The Bill as it stands makes it very easy for the government to take us out of the EU without a deal despite it being against the will of parliament.

 

They can both be seen very easily as malicious intentions they were trying to slip past MPs. If those two things can be spotted fairly quickly, what other horrors are also contained in the Bill?

No they didn't. Boris wanted to implement the will of the British people to leave the EU and he should be commended for that. MP's are just standing in his way. Well bring on an election and a majority for Boris and he can do what he likes then.

 

There is no 'will of the people' when the people are divided as ever. Leavers can't even agree on what they want. Nigel Farage, of all people, doesn't want this deal and would rather delay. The other half of the country is obviously not on board. It's not as simple as you like to pretend.

 

Focus groups show that people think this agreement is the end of Brexit — Brexit doesn't end on the 31 of October either way. 'Get Brexit Done' is purposefully misleading and there is a complete misunderstanding of the situation — it's simply the beginning of a transition period. This agreement isn't even as complex as future trade negotiations will be.

 

@1186219417836969984

The entire premise of a confirmatory vote is that it would very decisively decide what the people actually want. There would be no room for interpretation. People are more informed. It's not democracy to force something through that such a large number of the country don't want — including leavers themselves. I would accept it if the people actually voted for this deal, but they haven't.

 

I know — it has been years (if the government had a more centrist approach from the beginning then this wouldn't be happening), but this bill has existed for just a few days. MPs only received it last night. There has been no economic assessment released. The most important decision for generations shouldn't be decided in less time than how to handle salmon in suspicious circumstances.

 

I wish you would respond to points directed at you rather than ignoring. Constantly.

US, Canada, Japan, China etc etc.

In what world will you get a great tradedeal with countries that are way bigger and have more influence on the worldwide stage. The UK will be desperate for trade deals and everyone knows it

ISTM there *is* a majority for getting Brexit finished, one way or another, though!

 

BTW, has any Remainer *MP* suggested that the referendum result should simply be ignored, rather than just ordinary voters? :unsure:

BTW, has any Remainer *MP* suggested that the referendum result should simply be ignored, rather than just ordinary voters? :unsure:

It doesn't really matter what they think. Their job is to a) act in the interests of the nation (avoiding this shit show of a deal that Johnson has put before us, ruining our economy, etc) and b) act in the interests of their constituents (aka... potentially now remain in the EU or hold a second confirmatory referendum on a deal that actually holds up to scrutiny).

It will not be finished by leaving. If there is a majority for finishing it then it must be abandoned.

 

Alternatively make it the central issue of the rest of our lives, doesn’t that sound fun?

I mean it's not like there are any other important issues that need addressing over the next decade that will get flung to the wayside while we're dealing with all this shit, like idk, the ongoing climate crisis? I mean nothing major has happened YET so we should be fine right? Much better to focus on a three year old narrow, advisory referendum result to which most didn't even know what they were voting for, brilliant use of our time.

@1187073970526478336

 

Has there been a reason given for why the Lib Dems abstained?

Edited October 23, 20195 yr by blacksquare

That's a coalition law isn't it? Swinson will have voted in favour of it in the first place.

That's a coalition law isn't it? Swinson will have voted in favour of it in the first place.

Probably the worst piece of legislation introduced by the coalition. The Lib Dems managed to get some changes agreed, but not enough.

That's a coalition law isn't it? Swinson will have voted in favour of it in the first place.

 

Of course! That completely passed me by.

 

I expect Labour will use this in the GE then.

Probably the worst piece of legislation introduced by the coalition. The Lib Dems managed to get some changes agreed, but not enough.

I'd maybe argue some of their budgets were worse but that's because healthcare is a devolved issue so I'm mostly unimpacted by this. Interesting that this didn't get carved out as an EVEL vote

 

Of course! That completely passed me by.

 

I expect Labour will use this in the GE then.

Depending on any remain alliance, if i was them I would.