A death certificate can contain any number of causes of death. If one of the causes listed is Covid-19, it is added to the figures even if it may well have made little or no difference to the time of death. OTOH, it is suspected that some deaths occurring away from hospitals are not being included as they will not have been tested for the virus. As I understand it, the same applies in many other countries.

It should be fairly easy to find the true figures worldwide as there will be average numbers of deaths for months of the year on record. If anyone wants to strip out those who would have died anyway, but just happened to catch Covid-19 while in hospital to finish them off a bit quicker, it should be a theoretical exercise that can be done.

 

I don;t believe that that many people who are dying of coronavirus just co-incidentally would have died anyway at the same time, so unless they caught the disease while sent to hospital for something terminal and unrelated, then they are actual covid-19 deaths and everything else is speculation.

 

Deaths in the community are not being reported, especially care homes. I hear from a Councillor that one part of London is "rife" with it as he has already been told his mother will only be coming out in a box if she gets ill for any reason. No doctors, no NHS. So as far as I'm concerned the death rate is actually more likely to be far higher than is reported, not only directly from Covid-19, but also from indirect deaths that wouldn't have happened had doctors and the NHS been doing their regular jobs saving lives for other conditions. Don;t forget you can die in 2 days. Another friend's neighbour was in a meeting 3 weeks ago, looking a bit grey last week and off colour, found by a friend checking up on him at the weekend, hospital, and dead yesterday. So he made the figures for yesterday but wouldn't have if he'd been found dead at home.

 

I bet they never test most of the elderly who have died at home, as a shoulder-shrug, never mind, eh, old anyway, as they'll want to get on with testing the alive and burying the dead asap.

 

Happy times.

I just got that letter from UK Government, straight into the recycle bin :o :lol: more paper to wipe my bum with :D

Worth noting that nearly 140,000 people died in January to March of last year (2019) in England alone.

 

Think the media are not always putting the deaths we are seeing in the country/worldwide in context with a 'normal' year to keep a slight edge of panic in the populace so that they keep taking quarantine seriously.

 

But I think it is important for those of us who already do, to keep it in mind. In any normal year thousands of people die in the country every month anyway.

Edited April 8, 20205 yr by J00ps*

Yes, I'm now getting confirmations from friends in London of people they know dying from it. It's hard to ignore when local people suddenly die from it. The USA equivalent for population will be around 4 or 5,000 a day. Anything less and they are doing better than the UK, anything more and they are doing worse. A lot of the US are isolated communities, a lot of them are big cities. The cities will be the ones with the huge death tolls, especially poverty-stricken areas with no health care. Or, "democrats" as Trump might call them, ahead of the election coming up where his fanbase is rural or small town..

 

The 'rust belt' areas like Detroit and Michigan are getting it bad, especially in black communities for some reason are being hit hard. But then again these people are the people trump will Try and prevent voting!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52219930

 

Staff working for Her Majesty's Passport Office believe their lives are being put at risk because of demands that they return to work.

 

Many have been asked to go back next week, despite the ongoing coronavirus crisis, the BBC has learned.

 

On Tuesday, staff were told by a Home Office scientific adviser 80% of people would get Covid-19 in the end and "we can't hide away from it forever".

 

Seems like some in the UK gov are still willing to sacrifice lives.

Worth noting that nearly 140,000 people died in January to March of last year (2019) in England alone.

 

Think the media are not always putting the deaths we are seeing in the country/worldwide in context with a 'normal' year to keep a slight edge of panic in the populace so that they keep taking quarantine seriously.

 

But I think it is important for those of us who already do, to keep it in mind. In any normal year thousands of people die in the country every month anyway.

 

Everybody dies. The only question is when do you die. There will be a lower death rate after covid because it will have already killed people who wouldnt otherwise have died. At what point does people dying in numbers become acceptable to society? 7,000 a month? If that's acceptable then why do we make such a fuss about 60 people getting blown up on the tube or a few people at a concert, and rush to say that's a terrible tragedy while we see people dying slowly drowning in their own lungs as something that we can say, oh well, carry on as normal then?

 

If those numbers of people were being killed by 3 planeloads of people crashing each day then we would all demand action about it and stop flying. I don;t see any difference. The end result of all this is that covid-19 has to be eradicated from the world because if it isn't then based on current reported rates of death vs surviving it will total 77 million dead, mostly the poor and elderly, and all we are doing is spreading it out over a longer period so that the hospital system doesnt get swamped and politicians dont get the blame for inaction. Doctors and nurses don;t usually die from caring for their patients, bus drivers don't usually die just for being at work. This is not normal.

 

If some countries can contain it and get to the point where there are no deaths then that suggests we can do something about it, even if that means quarantining people entering the country from infection-prone countries then we have to just give our holidays until it's been defeated (and I really need my holidays, so it pains me to say it!)....

 

I just got that letter from UK Government, straight into the recycle bin :o :lol: more paper to wipe my bum with :D

 

I hope you washed your hands Martin, it seems that there is a really bad community spread in Westminster/Whitehall - which makes it really bloody odd that they'd decide to send EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY a letter.

People in my estate have taped their letterboxes up 😂, I pick up the post and make sure to wash my hands afterwards.

I just hope the people that think, 'well, they were going to die anyway' realise that hundreds — per day — are dying alone and their families are now grieving without the opportunity of seeing their loves ones one last time. Families can't be together. That was preventable.

I find the whole 'they'd have died anyway' a really bizarre take. The Health & Social Care system is completely overwhelmed and is causing treatments for other things to be cancelled or delayed, yes many people dying have 'underlying conditions' that make their lives shorter than people without them, but they are treatable things and they weren't all going to die this Spring. I don't see the amount of deaths as anything other than a sad tragedy, and a total that could (should!) have been far less.

I find the whole 'they'd have died anyway' a really bizarre take. The Health & Social Care system is completely overwhelmed and is causing treatments for other things to be cancelled or delayed, yes many people dying have 'underlying conditions' that make their lives shorter than people without them, but they are treatable things and they weren't all going to die this Spring. I don't see the amount of deaths as anything other than a sad tragedy, and a total that could (should!) have been far less.

 

Exactly.

 

There is a lack of humanity, and understanding, when we focus solely on statistics.

Edited April 10, 20205 yr by blacksquare

Another 953 deaths announced in the UK today pushing the total above 9,000. There's usually a delay in reporting deaths because of registrations, which is why they fall every weekend before shooting up on Tuesday, so most of these 953 will have been before yesterday. The average time from first contracting the virus to death is over 20 days, so the majority of deaths up to this weekend will have been cases contracted before lockdown.

 

That'll make it in excess of 12,000 deaths before the government put in any kind of real measures. The pubs only closed 20 days ago. It really shows just how badly wrong they got it. Nothing at all learned from countries that got it right, or wrong. A true scandal which I hope that this government will be held properly to account for, but I don't hold out much hope of that!

 

Still, I got my letter from Boris yesterday saying we'll fight the virus with British spirit. Let me go and hang my union flag and salute the Queen, that'll show it!

Another 953 deaths announced in the UK today pushing the total above 9,000. There's usually a delay in reporting deaths because of registrations, which is why they fall every weekend before shooting up on Tuesday, so most of these 953 will have been before yesterday. The average time from first contracting the virus to death is over 20 days, so the majority of deaths up to this weekend will have been cases contracted before lockdown.

 

That'll make it in excess of 12,000 deaths before the government put in any kind of real measures. The pubs only closed 20 days ago. It really shows just how badly wrong they got it. Nothing at all learned from countries that got it right, or wrong. A true scandal which I hope that this government will be held properly to account for, but I don't hold out much hope of that!

 

Still, I got my letter from Boris yesterday saying we'll fight the virus with British spirit. Let me go and hang my union flag and salute the Queen, that'll show it!

I didn't bother reading mine. If I had done, I might have had to fight back the vomit at the "British spirit" bit. Perhaps he means that we should all douse ourselves in meths to fight it off.

Worth noting that nearly 140,000 people died in January to March of last year (2019) in England alone.

 

Think the media are not always putting the deaths we are seeing in the country/worldwide in context with a 'normal' year to keep a slight edge of panic in the populace so that they keep taking quarantine seriously.

 

But I think it is important for those of us who already do, to keep it in mind. In any normal year thousands of people die in the country every month anyway.

I think it's worth noting that without the measures taken it would be the biggest catastrophe seen in recent ages. If this isn't yet.

It's not a bad thing to scare people a bit and inform them that if this would've spread, they'd be dying by the thousands a day, even the youngsters

I didn’t read my letter either but I did note they’d bothered to translate it into Welsh as well. But even that wasn’t tempting enough to make me read it.

The one thing I did notice about the letter was that I have apparently become PM without knowing it. The words "The Prime Minister" were printed where the addressee's name should be.

The one thing I did notice about the letter was that I have apparently become PM without knowing it. The words "The Prime Minister" were printed where the addressee's name should be.

 

If only that were more than just Boris’ attempt to remind us he’s the prime minister as much as he possibly can.

3 weeks ago, France had recorded 8 times more hospital deaths than Britain. Britain now has 15% more and that gap will only grow further.

 

At this rate, Britain could become the country with the most deaths per capita in the world (excluding San Marino).

Edited April 10, 20205 yr by Harve

3 weeks ago, France had recorded 8 times more hospital deaths than Britain. Britain now has 15% more and that gap will only grow further.

 

At this rate, Britain could become the country with the most deaths per capita in the world (excluding San Marino).

Naturally, anyone pointing this out if it happens will be accused of being a traitor by the Tories and their friends in the press.