It's what needs to be done though, I think, from what I have read amongst the science. The problem is rather than stringing it out over 4-6 months as we should be doing, alongside the vaccine rollout, we're seemingly doing it over 4-6 weeks. Seems like we're all gonna get a bout of covid over the summer although should be mild if you're double jabbed.

 

I'd argue the seeds have already been sowed for a while - Silverstone at full capacity etc. Wembley at about 80% full.

 

I disagree. It carries many risks as already highlighted and is totally unnecessary.

I think your username slowdown is so apt at the moment as a response to the UK government rushing through 'Freedom Day'!

Edited July 6, 20214 yr by sn👠ke

I do think they should've waited until September. By then every adult should've been able to have two jabs and they could have possibly gotten 12-17 year olds at least one dose of a vaccine by then before schools start their new year.

 

I wouldn't be surprise if there's another lockdown in the future, particularly this winter.

I do think they should've waited until September. By then every adult should've been able to have two jabs and they could have possibly gotten 12-17 year olds at least one dose of a vaccine by then before schools start their new year.

 

I wouldn't be surprise if there's another lockdown in the future, particularly this winter.

 

Another lockdown could well happen if a new variant develops which is more dangerous and less effective against the vaccines. This is one of the many risks with the approach being taken by the government.

The good news is that the public are against ditching masks - one of the few things that the public are getting right at the moment when polled IMO!

I disagree. It carries many risks as already highlighted and is totally unnecessary.

 

You can't close down forever though. At some point you open up and you increase infections unless you vaccinate to herd immunity (which is unlikely to be done until we get a safe vaccination for children imo). Every country across the world is going to be faced with the same challenges, England has just gone full throttle though which I do think is bloody stupid. Not against us opening up on the 19th though, it needs to be done.

You can't close down forever though. At some point you open up and you increase infections unless you vaccinate to herd immunity (which is unlikely to be done until we get a safe vaccination for children imo). Every country across the world is going to be faced with the same challenges, England has just gone full throttle though which I do think is bloody stupid. Not against us opening up on the 19th though, it needs to be done.

 

They could have opened up nightclubs, theatres etc. but still kept mask requirements in supermarkets and public transport for now. Instead of doing everything at once.

 

I mean ideally in my opinion the nightclubs and theatres should be require a negative covid test or vaccine passport for entry and/or open at only half capacity at first.

Edited July 6, 20214 yr by sn👠ke

You can't close down forever though. At some point you open up and you increase infections unless you vaccinate to herd immunity (which is unlikely to be done until we get a safe vaccination for children imo). Every country across the world is going to be faced with the same challenges, England has just gone full throttle though which I do think is bloody stupid. Not against us opening up on the 19th though, it needs to be done.

 

Agreed, wait any longer and it's too late. Opening up in September would be ridiculous and any later you're already into peak illness season. Not sure the updated mask policy is sensible on crowded places but like I said before, looks like a lot of ppl at the moment aren't wearing them regardless.

 

I don't like how they keep changing the herd immunity goalposts. First it was 70%, now they're saying it's 85%.

There has been a communication breakdown in my opinion.

 

Getting people invested in Following the Rules and then moving the goalposts every few months was a bad strategy for long-term compliance and risk recognition.

I don't like how they keep changing the herd immunity goalposts. First it was 70%, now they're saying it's 85%.

“They” didn’t. Variants that are more transmittable did. Alpha and Delta require a corresponding high rate of heard immunity in order to protect the population than the wild type. It’s why removing the conditions for mutation are so important. We also learn more about this virus daily that can inform science. Sometimes it’s easy to forget this didn’t exist 18 months ago

 

For example Measles is highly contagious and requires a heard immunity level of 95% to prevent outbreaks.

They could have opened up nightclubs, theatres etc. but still kept mask requirements in supermarkets and public transport for now. Instead of doing everything at once.

 

I mean ideally in my opinion the nightclubs and theatres should be require a negative covid test or vaccine passport for entry and/or open at only half capacity at first.

 

I agree. If everyone had a test or been vaccinated, and wore a mask there would be almost zero risk and everything could open for everyone.

 

As it is, the reality is a large proportion of the population will continue to self-isolate and businesses can't expect it will ever return to "normal" because there will be a lovely little reservoir of ongoing potential lethal variants circulating due to idiots with bizarre beliefs and a lack of concern about others dying.

 

So, they can all piss about until they've all caught it, and have recovered or have died of it, and those who don't agree with the policy will emerge when it looks as though "Herd immunity" is a thing, and there are no variants. Or until the whole policy is a massive disaster and there's another Lockdown as a new variant is immune to vaccines and starts killing young people as well as old vulnerable people. We've had those type of diseases before, we'll have them again. If young people were the ones dying off there'd be a very different attitude to it all.......

You can't close down forever though. At some point you open up and you increase infections unless you vaccinate to herd immunity (which is unlikely to be done until we get a safe vaccination for children imo). Every country across the world is going to be faced with the same challenges, England has just gone full throttle though which I do think is bloody stupid. Not against us opening up on the 19th though, it needs to be done.

 

 

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. The governments approach is reckless and dangerous and the British medical association along with the Irish government and many other health professionals have raised concerns about the timing and removal of all restrictions. If you are going to open up further, then you at least wait until everyone is double vaccinated and case numbers are at a more manageable level and keep some mitigation measures in place such as masks.

Edited July 7, 20214 yr by slowdown73

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. The governments approach is reckless and dangerous and the British medical association along with the Irish government and many other health professionals have raised concerns about the timing and removal of all restrictions. If you are going to open up further, then you at least wait until everyone is double vaccinated and case numbers are at a more manageable level and keep some mitigation measures in place such as masks.

 

Even when we fully double jab everyone, we're probably going to have 5 million adults who are unvaccinated. 5-10% of these will be for medical reasons, but that's still millions of people who are unvaccinated. The danger is if we open in say late August or September, then you push the infections to the autumn/winter. Don't get me wrong, I feel they have got the mask thing very wrong, but cases are going to rise no matter what unless we lockdown. You only need to start looking at Europe to see the trends there in certain countries, which are similar to the UK's with Delta.

 

It's a double edged sword and certainly not easy. If we don't open up on the 19th July things do get very bad, but I don't agree with the mitigations techniques being taken away.

 

Even when we fully double jab everyone, we're probably going to have 5 million adults who are unvaccinated. 5-10% of these will be for medical reasons, but that's still millions of people who are unvaccinated. The danger is if we open in say late August or September, then you push the infections to the autumn/winter. Don't get me wrong, I feel they have got the mask thing very wrong, but cases are going to rise no matter what unless we lockdown. You only need to start looking at Europe to see the trends there in certain countries, which are similar to the UK's with Delta.

 

It's a double edged sword and certainly not easy. If we don't open up on the 19th July things do get very bad, but I don't agree with the mitigations techniques being taken away.

 

Of course there will always be a portion of society who remain unvaccinated for various reasons and covid 19 isn’t going to disappear completely. That’s why, we need a more balanced and sensible approach particularly at a time when hospital admissions and infection levels are rising significantly. None of us want to be back in another lockdown in the winter but the reality is this could well happen if a dangerous new variant develops or hospitals become overwhelmed again. It is clear the government are pursing their herd immunity policy which they abandoned after widespread criticism before the first lockdown and its interesting that virtually no other countries are following this approach. I wonder why!!

I was just reading that a few hospitals in Scotland have declared code black status, effectively, some are at capacity and they're talking about postponing certain surgeries etc... To alleviate things which isn't really good news considering we are meant to be moving to level 0 in the 19th. It's likely I think, that that date will be pushed back. Over 1,500 people identified by contact Tracers also weren't notified by test and trace that they were to isolate last week.

I do wonder what hospital admissions will be like in a month or so. Whilst the vaccines are effective at preventing hospitalisation, if we end up with 100,000+ cases a day after opening up, then the hospitalisation numbers will still likely be quite large and have a knock on effect to other services.

 

Over 30,000 cases today and case numbers doubling every 10 days. We might be around 60-80,000 daily cases by the time the 19th comes.

 

 

 

 

I do wonder what hospital admissions will be like in a month or so. Whilst the vaccines are effective at preventing hospitalisation, if we end up with 100,000+ cases a day after opening up, then the hospitalisation numbers will still likely be quite large and have a knock on effect to other services.

 

Over 30,000 cases today and case numbers doubling every 10 days. We might be around 60-80,000 daily cases by the time the 19th comes.

 

 

Essentially, we have two choices in this country. Given covid is going to be around for some time, we either accept that and live with some form of restrictions in the foreseeable future such as masks / social distancing to help keep the virus more under control. Alternatively, we follow the current government strategy which only appears focused on short term gains of reopening with all the risks of long term significant problems caused by spiralling infection rates, increased deaths / hospitalisations, risk of further lockdowns if a more dangerous variant develops, organisations having to shut down due to the knock on effect of increased numbers of staff having to self-isolate and not to mention the impact of more cases of chronic health problems and disability caused by long covid. Whatever we decide to do in this country will also have an impact on the rest of the world as we have already seen by the dramatic spread of the new delta variant. We should all bear in mind that if our covid rates continue to rocket, then we are likely to be barred from travelling to other countries, hence so called ‘freedom day’ won’t give us all the freedoms we aspire.

 

For those people who think none of the above will happen, well it’s already started. Hospital admissions have already increased by 40% according to an article in the guardian today. In addition, cases of long covid are rising in young people. This has led to some hospitals already considering postponing non-urgent operations. With infections doubling every 10 days, these figures will only increase over time.

 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguard...covid-reopening

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by slowdown73

I do wonder what hospital admissions will be like in a month or so. Whilst the vaccines are effective at preventing hospitalisation, if we end up with 100,000+ cases a day after opening up, then the hospitalisation numbers will still likely be quite large and have a knock on effect to other services.

 

Over 30,000 cases today and case numbers doubling every 10 days. We might be around 60-80,000 daily cases by the time the 19th comes.

The Netherlands did what the English want to do but with more restrictions on access (vaccination or a negative tests) yet cases are EXPLODING again with a 277% gain in average cases in 7 days. Hopefully y'all will learn from the Dutch mistake

Boris being criticised for not wearing a mask as he left Wembley last night, despite his wife, driver and other protection officers all wearing one. One newspaper has discovered that people in Ministerial cars are exempts though so he wasn't breaking the law. Just not setting an example. Looks a bit the worse for wear in this Mirror pic too... :o

 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/bori...682#source=push

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by common sense

Finally England announces it will join half of the rest of the world in allowing quarantine-free travel for double jagged. I expect Scotland to follow next week when Sturgeon addresses Holyrood (it’s on recess currently).

 

 

Sadly the UK has decided against reciprocity at the moment. Which is BS considering there’s a long list of places that are already willing to accept the UKs. Also spits in The face about what Shaps said about reuniting families.