It's a catch-22 though as we just kick the can down the road and don't solve the problem. I totally agree the Government have to do something, but State handouts can't just go on forever without some change somewhere. The fault here is we have taken energy for granted and use too much of it, not on about essentials here, more that people leave stuff on standby all the time, not turning lights off when not needed etc. - I don't think energy companies and the Government have done enough to educate people. Now, you can aruge this is a by-product of cheap energy, but I think there is a complete failure of the independent regulator here which does little to help consumers.

 

Energy consumption has been falling since 2005, despite the population increasing by ~7-8 million people. A lot of technologies now use much less electricity than previously and efficiencies continue to be made (TVs/Laptops/Computers/Light bubls etc). The biggest consumption of energy is most probably kettles of an evening when people have a cuppa. And I very much doubt you'll get people to reduce their tea consumption. :lol:

 

The biggest issue is the government and the regulator - both of which haven't done enough to ensure people are negatively effected in big ways. #

 

I would say the government have also kicked the can down the road regarding eletricity generation. Instead of phasing out coal for a number of renewnable resources, they pretty much put all their eggs in one basket with Gas. Renewables aren't expanding at a fast enough rate, with enough storage, to phase out fossil fuels completely (they could if the funding was there). Nuclear is another one that should've been taken more seriously as well. 4 of the UK's nuclear power stations are going offline this decade, with only 2 new ones replacing them. The others planned will likely not be built/up and running until the mid 2030s-2040s. With new nuclear power plants generating much more energy than previous generations, it would've been wise for the UK government to invest a lot more in them as it could've really helped with regards to the energy mix and reducing the exposure of the UK to fossil fuel prices. Instead, the government opted for private companies to fund and for them to take a back seat essentially. Something which has caused more headaches as investors have pulled out of projects and the UK government has allowed China to invest heavily into upcoming projects - which isn't wise at all. Another reason why energy should be nationalised.

 

 

It's a catch-22 though as we just kick the can down the road and don't solve the problem. I totally agree the Government have to do something, but State handouts can't just go on forever without some change somewhere. The fault here is we have taken energy for granted and use too much of it, not on about essentials here, more that people leave stuff on standby all the time, not turning lights off when not needed etc. - I don't think energy companies and the Government have done enough to educate people. Now, you can aruge this is a by-product of cheap energy, but I think there is a complete failure of the independent regulator here which does little to help consumers.

Could be helpful to know that modern light bulbs use next-to-no energy compared to basically anything else in your home.

 

The main drain on your bills is going determined how much you cook and heat. The amount you save from heating your home only to 16c is enormous compared to anything you save from unplugging phantom appliances, but of course the former is dangerous for elderly people which is why this winter will be so deadly.

 

The amount that bills are going up in the UK means that you can adopt a behaviour that's as energy-efficient as possible all you like, that won't be enough to cover even a fraction of the price increases. I'm not saying that that they're bad practices to have or that education doesn't have its place, but it's gaslighting - no pun intended - for governments or gas companies to talk about energy-saving tips when it won't stop you being cold.

Edited August 25, 20222 yr by Harve

It's a catch-22 though as we just kick the can down the road and don't solve the problem. I totally agree the Government have to do something, but State handouts can't just go on forever without some change somewhere. The fault here is we have taken energy for granted and use too much of it, not on about essentials here, more that people leave stuff on standby all the time, not turning lights off when not needed etc. - I don't think energy companies and the Government have done enough to educate people. Now, you can aruge this is a by-product of cheap energy, but I think there is a complete failure of the independent regulator here which does little to help consumers.

 

!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rodl:

 

Sure, it's the STAND-BY TV that is causing these MONSTROUS bills, not MASSIVE TORY AND NEOLIBERAL FAILINGS!!! :rofl:

 

JESUS H CHRIST!!!!

Could be helpful to know that modern light bulbs use next-to-no energy compared to basically anything else in your home.

 

The main drain on your bills is going determined how much you cook and heat. The amount you save from heating your home only to 16c is enormous compared to anything you save from unplugging phantom appliances, but of course the former is dangerous for elderly people which is why this winter will be so deadly.

 

The amount that bills are going up in the UK means that you can adopt a behaviour that's as energy-efficient as possible all you like, that won't be enough to cover even a fraction of the price increases. I'm not saying that that they're bad practices to have or that education doesn't have its place, but it's gaslighting - no pun intended - for governments or gas companies to talk about energy-saving tips when it won't stop you being cold.

 

Yeah there are energy saving lightbulbs, but we have millions of homes which are poorly insulated and energy saving traps. I think it is OK to say have yout heating turned on the 16C, but if you have ever lived in an old terrace house with high ceilings, it doesn't do a great job of trapping heat. Totally agree that way too many people heat their house up way too much though without fully understanding it doesn't need to be that hot!

 

 

!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rodl:

 

Sure, it's the STAND-BY TV that is causing these MONSTROUS bills, not MASSIVE TORY AND NEOLIBERAL FAILINGS!!! :rofl:

 

JESUS H CHRIST!!!!

 

I didn't say that Michael, but nationalisation isn't going to solve the problem and nor is the root cause private sector the problem. A large part of the problem is we have been used to burning energy (and I'll include myself in this) with cheap prices and taking it for granted - in its current format it is a finite resource. Now a lot of that is down to the fact our renweable infastructure is not where it needs to be and won't be for some time. The companies are just not regulated properly and we've got in to a situation now which has spiralled out of control through poor regulation.

 

The energy price cap has increased by 80% to £3549. If you thought that was bad enough, there are some predictions it will increase to over £6k by Apr-June 2023. For many people and not just those on low incomes, this will cause real financial hardship.

Well, it's gonna by rise by 80% to £3,549 from October.

 

Something's really got to give.

Reason for current sorry state?

 

cheap imported gas for decades as an actual policy and consistently not investing in renewables. Privatisation took the pressure of the utility companies having to look for alternatives instead giving profits away to people who dabble in stock shares. Government removed incentives to go green. Chickens coming home to roost in a massive way due to Russia invading Ukraine.

I've just read one prediction that energy prices could top £10k next year. That is just unthinkable and extremely scary. I am already worried as I'm trying to take on a mortgage to avoid a big increase in my renting costs. Everything is going up and there is just no credible plan from either of the Tory candidates. We are not the only country facing the energy crisis but we have such an incompetent government at present that I have very little confidence that they will do anything that will be effective. A few tax cuts is not going to solve the problem and telling people to use less energy is patronising and shows how out of touch they really are.

Edited August 29, 20222 yr by slowdown73

well here's the thing - apparently the UK already produces almost enough oil and gas to meet it's own needs. Yet we export most of it and import a similar amount. It's almost as if the UK is making huge amount of cash out of it instead of using to "take back control" and make companies sell it to the UK at cost plus a bit of profit.

 

A few windfarms, solar farms and we might even be self-sufficient for the short term until more renewables - and we wouldnt be dependant on foreign fluctuating prices. There's no reason it should even be relevant. Except to make British companies richer at the expense of British citizens. In which case tax them heavily to compensate. Yes, they have to find further fields if we were not signing up to renewables. But we are signing up to renewables. So we can just leave future stocks under the North Sea and move on phasing it out gradually.

 

Or maybe I'm being too simplistic and market forces and profits are far too complex for poor people to understand, only the super-rich are smart enough to suggest national policies and the absolute need for huge profits and pollution....

I don't have any objection to the government offering advice on reducing energy use. At the very least they could provide information that helps people to take decisions such as an estimate of how much it costs to light a room for an hour.

 

However, that advice will not be anywhere near enough for a lot of people. Johnson's attitude of "Not my problem guv" is, unfortunately, not a surprise from somebody who has never taken responsibility for anything. The fact that the next PM hasn't yet shown any sign of understanding the urgency of the problem is not encouraging.

I've just read one prediction that energy prices could top £10k next year.

 

 

Do you have a link for that please?

Do you have a link for that please?

 

Enjoying your Brexshit and Blojo?

What's interesting is that in the UK all the discussion seems to be about the price, whereas in most other countries it seems to be about supply, although energy prices are also rising rapidly elsewhere, if not quite as obscenely as in Britain. The French PM has asked every business to put in place a strategy to reduce energy consumption in the next month and has warned that businesses, not households, will be the first to be cut off when shortages occur.

 

I don't think the UK is prepared for rolling blackouts or having to ration supply this winter, and is about to elect a prime minister whose default tone seems to be optimism. Just like with Johnson there will be a recurring problem of minimising issues and avoiding telling the whole story until the problem gets too big to ignore and the costs are much higher than if action was taken earlier, and that goes for both policy problems and scandals.

Do you have a link for that please?

 

It was actually mentioned on the BBC news a few nights ago, so I don't have a link sorry. It's probably speculation more than anything at this stage but who would have predicted a year ago we would be facing energy prices of above £5k or £6k per year and that price seems to be increasing all the time so it's certainly not out of this question that it could climb much higher.

What's interesting is that in the UK all the discussion seems to be about the price, whereas in most other countries it seems to be about supply, although energy prices are also rising rapidly elsewhere, if not quite as obscenely as in Britain. The French PM has asked every business to put in place a strategy to reduce energy consumption in the next month and has warned that businesses, not households, will be the first to be cut off when shortages occur.

 

I don't think the UK is prepared for rolling blackouts or having to ration supply this winter, and is about to elect a prime minister whose default tone seems to be optimism. Just like with Johnson there will be a recurring problem of minimising issues and avoiding telling the whole story until the problem gets too big to ignore and the costs are much higher than if action was taken earlier, and that goes for both policy problems and scandals.

 

That's because Russia supply a much larger amount of gas to other European countries compared to the UK. Norway makes up for the majority of the UK's gas imports (75% of our imports are from Norway). Only ~5% of gas imports were from Russia previously. Additionally, countries like Germany don't only just import Gas from Russia. They also import significant amounts of coal and oil used for electricity generation from Russia as well.

 

There's also the current ongoing drought in large parts of Europe which is negatively affecting other forms of electricity generation. France gets ~75% of its electricity from nuclear power generation, however with the drought a lot of stations have had to decrease output due to not enough water to cool the reactors. It's also affected hydropower throughout Europe, as a lot of rivers are running a lot lower/have dried up significantly.

 

Between Russia invading Ukraine and the ongoing Drought, Europe's electricity generation has been really tested/strained in such a short period of time. If there is a cold winter this year, there are going to be very bad consequences throughout, including in the UK. Black outs may become regular occurences.

 

 

Enjoying your Brexshit and Blojo?

 

 

Yes thanks. Sad that Boris was forced out though. :angry:

 

No doubt you're looking forward to Labour winning the next election. I concede now that it is likely. :(

 

and is about to elect a prime minister whose default tone seems to be optimism. Just like with Johnson there will be a recurring problem of minimising issues and avoiding telling the whole story until the problem gets too big to ignore and the costs are much higher than if action was taken earlier, and that goes for both policy problems and scandals.

 

That is exactly the truth - at least Sunak seems to have some concept of the problem ahead but with Truss it's stick head in the sand, rely on outdated cliches from the 80s and claim that most people are not patriotic or optimistic enough. It's not going to work - it'll be fautly populism with a very unpopular leader.

That is exactly the truth - at least Sunak seems to have some concept of the problem ahead but with Truss it's stick head in the sand, rely on outdated cliches from the 80s and claim that most people are not patriotic or optimistic enough. It's not going to work - it'll be fautly populism with a very unpopular leader.

 

She's going to be really popular with her Party though and core members. Maybe she thinks she can get by on this strategy in 2024 on a small-ish majority and hope the tax incentives and hope for a small vote turnout to get through a majority. She is daft so maybe she can't see where the tide is going.

To avoid fuel poverty in Shetland, you need to earn 104k

 

While fairly isolated, Shetland is one of the most energy rich places on the entire f***ing planet. A set of islands so windy that f***ing trees can’t grow that is surrounded by oil. And yet it has outrageous transmission charges, even tho it generates a chunk of the nations power, and is facing staggering price hikes.

 

The UK Grid is fundamentally broken. Transmission fees are based on utilisation not generation and so Scotland pays staggering fees compared to London and SE England, even tho Scotland is an energy exporter and those scandalous transmission fees apply to energy that is generated and then used locally. The penalty should be on consumers who chose to live far from power generation. But that would negatively impact London so it’ll never happen

Has there been any indication of an EU-wide cap or effort to limit costs?