But see, just trying to quantify that in to words is impossible "iff you have a garden, use it, if you don't use the park and we will let you get the coronavrius". The Government spell things out and people get confused. Sending this message out is the exact thing people are tearing the Government a new one for, so you're just creating an even bigger problem.

 

It's not a go at you personally Klaus, I fully get the point you are making, but it's been said loads of times in this thread the average human is stupid. It's a nice idea but it's not practical. As I'm sure more people in this country don't have access to gardens than those that do. I can at least see some of the reasoning in some of the Government's announcement last night, although I just just fail to see why they wanted a televised speech that was akin to a strip tease. Boris probably thinks he's a war time hero and has the spirit of Churchill within him.

 

Google says about 87% of households have a garden in the UK, and the area covers one-third the area of Wales. Seems to me it's an obvious solution to stop people mingling in public spaces if they MUST do it (and have been given permission to by the Gov). As I say, it's moot since Friday and the Johnson-pushed assumption on relaxing rules, people were literally sat and walking about in the streets in mass gatherings, most 2m apart some not. I literally couldn't leave the house without invading other people's space and getting involved in a social gathering I wasn't comfortable taking part in.

I've linked previous COVID-19 event diary posts I think, but always worth seeing it nicely laid-out with the UK highlights focused on:

 

If you've time I suggest flicking through the January Wuhan virus timeline first, then read this bearing in mind Johnson should have been aware of all that was going on.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_t...in_January_2020

 

Ben Claimant

@imajsaclaimant

December 31st; China alerts WHO to new virus.

 

January 23rd: Study reveals a third of China’s patients require intensive care.

 

January 24th: Boris Johnson misses first Cobra meeting.

 

January 29th: Boris Johnson misses second Cobra meeting.

 

January 31st: The NHS declares first ever ‘Level 4 critical incident’. Meanwhile, the government declines to join European scheme to source PPE.

 

February 5th: Boris Johnson misses third Cobra meeting.

 

February 12th: Boris Johnson misses fourth Cobra meeting. Exeter University published study warning Coronavirus could infect 45 million people in the UK if left unchallenged.

 

February 13th: Boris Johnson misses conference call with European leaders.

 

February 14th: Boris Johnson goes away on holiday. Aides are told keeps Johnson’s briefing notes short or he will not read them.

 

February 18th: Johnson misses fifth cobra meeting.

 

February 26th: Boris Johnson announces ‘Herd Immunity’ strategy, announcing some people will lose loved ones. Government document is leaked, predicting half a million Brits could die in ‘worse case scenario’.

 

February 29th: Boris Johnson retreats to his Country Manor.

 

NHS warns of ‘PPE shortage nightmare’ Stockpiles have dwindled or expired after years of austerity cuts.

 

March 2nd: Boris Johnson attends his FIRST Cobra meeting, declining another opportunity to join European PPE scheme. Government’s own scientists say over half a million Brit’s could die if virus left unrestrained. Johnson tells country “We are very, very well prepared.”

 

March 3rd: Scientists urge Government to advise public not to shake hands. Boris Johnson brags about shaking hands of Coronavirus patients.

 

March 4th: Government stops providing daily updates on virus following a 70% spike in UK cases. They will later U-turn on this amid accusations they are withholding vital information.

 

March 5th: Boris Johnson tells public to ‘wash their hands and business as usual’.

 

 

I don't see how it's possible to read this and not come out of thinking the man is a first-class prick....

March 3rd: Scientists urge Government to advise public not to shake hands. Boris Johnson brags about shaking hands of Coronavirus patients.

 

 

Indeed, and the advice from SAGE at the time was not to. Following the science ?

So here finally are the new rules from Wednesday and they seem clear enough to me.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...can-and-cant-do

 

 

There will be a limited number of things you can do on Wednesday that you cannot do now:

 

spend time outdoors – for example sitting and enjoying the fresh air, picnicking, or sunbathing

meet one other person from a different household outdoors - following social distancing guidelines

exercise outdoors as often as you wish - following social distancing guidelines

use outdoor sports courts or facilities, such as a tennis or basketball court, or golf course – with members of your household, or one other person while staying 2 metres apart

go to a garden centre

At all times, should continue to observe social distancing guidelines when you are outside your home, including ensuring you are 2 metres away from anyone outside your household.

 

As with before, you cannot:

 

visit friends and family in their homes

exercise in an indoor sports court, gym or leisure centre, or go swimming in a public pool

use an outdoor gym or playground

visit a private or ticketed attraction

gather in a group of more than two (excluding members of your own household), except for a few specific exceptions set out in law (for work, funerals, house moves, supporting the vulnerable, in emergencies and to fulfil legal obligations)

If you are showing coronavirus symptoms, or if you or any of your household are self-isolating, you should stay at home - this is critical to staying safe and saving lives.

 

Here's a link to the 50 page exit strategy too.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go..._v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Edited May 11, 20205 yr by Crazy Chris

Google says about 87% of households have a garden in the UK, and the area covers one-third the area of Wales. Seems to me it's an obvious solution to stop people mingling in public spaces if they MUST do it (and have been given permission to by the Gov). As I say, it's moot since Friday and the Johnson-pushed assumption on relaxing rules, people were literally sat and walking about in the streets in mass gatherings, most 2m apart some not. I literally couldn't leave the house without invading other people's space and getting involved in a social gathering I wasn't comfortable taking part in.

 

Surely you don't actually believe 87% of people have a garden? I'm not one for going Trump but I'm totally calling fake news on that. Most terraced housing in the UK does not have a garden and nor does anyone who lives in any sort of flat/apartment. They may have access to a shared garden. But that is not what I would call a private garden, which I am assuming that is what people are infering.

 

Like I've said, I see the point and I'm not against it either, but to convey that in a message is difficult.

Thought actually weeks ago it was actually going to be eased in the Celtic countries first rather than England, as England has the biggest outbreak, probably even taking into account the population numbers of each constituent country of the UK.

 

One difference England is ruled by a right wing Tory government while the devolved states all have a leftist element to them be it SF in NI, SNP in Scotland and Labour in Wales.

87% having their own garden? Did they only take those living in suburbs and low density areas without apartment buildings into account? Or just the middle+ class? Sounds a bit sketchy.

Can we talk about Russia getting their most infections in a day, yet Putin announcing the lifting of restrictions soon :')

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...703/1750754.pdf

 

 

Gov figs from 2008 says 19% of property in England was flats. Likely to have risen since then so 87% having a garden can’t be so.

 

In the cities the percentage of flats will be significantly higher. And Gov figs above says that 40% of social housing was flats so again the garden lifestyle is not going to help the poorest amongst us in society who again are having to be sacrificed in order to keep our capitalist society ticking over and enriching the already wealthy

Surely you don't actually believe 87% of people have a garden? I'm not one for going Trump but I'm totally calling fake news on that. Most terraced housing in the UK does not have a garden and nor does anyone who lives in any sort of flat/apartment. They may have access to a shared garden. But that is not what I would call a private garden, which I am assuming that is what people are infering.

 

Like I've said, I see the point and I'm not against it either, but to convey that in a message is difficult.

 

Most of these stats depend on the person filling them in so someone with a 'yard' out the back of a terraced house may write yes to do you have a garden.

 

In fairness to Piers Morgan once upon a time he was editor of the Daiky Mirror traditionally a Labour Party supporting paper and he opposed he Iraq War its only in the past decade he's shown himself to be gammon and supporting the labour right tradition which voted Brexit as he tried to be 'like the man in the street common sense(no offence Chris) kinda guy.

Daily Briefing with Boris right now, BBC1 and Sky News.

There was also a response by Keir Starmer beforehand which was excellent highlighting the problems with the government approach from the off and splinting this into how things must change after all this in terms of decent pay for the real essential workers in the UK!

I also agree somewhat with Rooney in terms that the public must understand the general rules and use their common sense and take care. It's hard for the government to hold people's hands and make every one of the complex decisions that will result in these rules.

 

I get this quite a lot working in the councils housing department - there's very much a blame culture within people so that I give the best 'advice' I can to people but a lot of the time it's up to the person to take the advice if they want. So many people blame me as a housing advisor for everything that happens in their lives when a lot of the time it's their decisions they have to take some responsibility for.

However it’s difficult for people to make decisions when the rules are vague.

 

The town I work in was on the News tonight (the woman who cleans my classroom was actually interviewed *.* ) because it’s half in England and half in Wales and the confusion is too much. England going a different way is completely barmy and that’s down to Boris and his inept government.

I think the messaging is really important and I don’t think we’re expecting too much either when we are asking for it to be delivered well in a reasonable timeframe. Absolutely we have to take responsibility for our own actions and not just do something and blame everyone else... but this part has been a massive shambles and Boris is the leader of our country - it isn’t expecting too much to expect a leader of an entire country to understand how to structure and convey an important message. It isn’t too much to expect that government to structure the release of that message in a meaningful manner that allows people to take responsibility for doing their part and gives them time to put their own plans in place.

 

The lack of clarity and constant message changing around meeting people was really poor. The means of deploying the message around returning to work has been poor. They have had a long time to consider this step as it was inevitable that people would need to return at some point and the manner of delivery and the short timescales involved for the public was asking for confusion and panic.

Couple of stories that Sky News are reporting this morning.

 

Ryanair hopes to re-start 40% of it's flights by 1st July.

 

Boris and Macron are now said to be in talks for a sort of gentleman's agreement to allow Brits to go on holiday to France this summer and the French to come here to help stimulate both economies.

So here finally are the new rules from Wednesday and they seem clear enough to me.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...can-and-cant-do

There will be a limited number of things you can do on Wednesday that you cannot do now:

 

spend time outdoors – for example sitting and enjoying the fresh air, picnicking, or sunbathing

meet one other person from a different household outdoors - following social distancing guidelines

exercise outdoors as often as you wish - following social distancing guidelines

use outdoor sports courts or facilities, such as a tennis or basketball court, or golf course – with members of your household, or one other person while staying 2 metres apart

go to a garden centre

At all times, should continue to observe social distancing guidelines when you are outside your home, including ensuring you are 2 metres away from anyone outside your household.

 

As with before, you cannot:

 

visit friends and family in their homes

exercise in an indoor sports court, gym or leisure centre, or go swimming in a public pool

use an outdoor gym or playground

visit a private or ticketed attraction

gather in a group of more than two (excluding members of your own household), except for a few specific exceptions set out in law (for work, funerals, house moves, supporting the vulnerable, in emergencies and to fulfil legal obligations)

If you are showing coronavirus symptoms, or if you or any of your household are self-isolating, you should stay at home - this is critical to staying safe and saving lives.

 

Here's a link to the 50 page exit strategy too.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go..._v2_WEB__1_.pdf

Thanks Chris, this finally gives me the answers I need.

I also agree somewhat with Rooney in terms that the public must understand the general rules and use their common sense and take care. It's hard for the government to hold people's hands and make every one of the complex decisions that will result in these rules.

 

I get this quite a lot working in the councils housing department - there's very much a blame culture within people so that I give the best 'advice' I can to people but a lot of the time it's up to the person to take the advice if they want. So many people blame me as a housing advisor for everything that happens in their lives when a lot of the time it's their decisions they have to take some responsibility for.

 

Hang on, I didn't know that you were a Thatcherite Steve?! Her whole 'no such thing as society' speech was about not blaming our problems on society and not expecting society to take actions on our behalf. The government keep banging on about how the virus doesn't discriminate, which to an extent is true, but sadly our society effectively DOES and so those in less secure employment are put at a much greater risk. It's ok for people like Rooney and myself in middle class type jobs where we can mostly work from home or cycle safely to work but that option just isn't avaliable to everyone.

 

@1259809811379695616

 

I think there is a subtle shift here in trying to move the blame to the public, we've seen it already with the messages on social media shaming people for meeting in parks, sunbathing on beaches etc. Ultimately the government are entrusted by the public to protect us, and the multiple failings highlighted in this thread - of which an enquiry will no doutbt highlight many more - shows how much this trust has been broken and how entitled we all are to blame those in power.

87% having their own garden? Did they only take those living in suburbs and low density areas without apartment buildings into account? Or just the middle+ class? Sounds a bit sketchy.

 

Also, a lot of people's gardens are so small (especially with people who live in inner-city terraced houses) as to be unusable with social distancing too (too much risk of your neighbour being less than 2m away if they are in their garden too).

 

use outdoor sports courts or facilities, such as a tennis or basketball court, or golf course – with members of your household, or one other person while staying 2 metres apart

 

Even being 2m apart, how can you use a tennis or basketball court safely to play these games with one member not being from your household though, the virus is spread through contact with surfaces so could be on the ball!

Edited May 12, 20205 yr by dandruff*

The government keep banging on about how the virus doesn't discriminate, which to an extent is true, but sadly our society effectively DOES and so those in less secure employment are put at a much greater risk. It's ok for people like Rooney and myself in middle class type jobs where we can mostly work from home or cycle safely to work but that option just isn't avaliable to everyone.

 

@1259809811379695616

 

@1260151385754144768

 

This story has really broken me today. The UK has failed to protect workers — her employers knew she had underlying respiratory problems but didn't sign her off work. People have no choice — and all this talk of rushing to save the economy or going back to normal is at the expense of the working class and their lives.

 

@1259933518131535879