Of course everyone should be allowed a vote. The point was more about the idea of Brexit, who quite frankly were living in a fantasy world. How many divorces run smoothly? Absolutely zero unless you agree on all the points.

 

Of course but that doesn't mean that Brexit cannot or shouldn't happen

This is very worrying.

 

Revealed: The true scale of London's economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations

 

An Evening Standard investigation: Saving Central London

 

• 50,000 West End jobs at risk

• 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport

• 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July

• 11 London branches of Pret shut down

• Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Whar

 

Central London is facing the biggest economic crisis in generations with tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of businesses at risk of being wiped out in Britain’s most vibrant economic powerhouse.

 

Normally heaving streets from Mayfair in the west to Docklands in the east have been left virtually deserted by a devastating double whammy of “no shows” from commuters and high spending tourists.

 

An Evening Standard investigation has unearthed the true scale of the crisis.

 

Alarmed business leaders predict that 50,000 jobs in the vulnerable retail, tourism and hospitality sectors could disappear in the West End alone this year with total spending down by half — a loss of revenue of about £5 billion — as a direct result of the coronavirus lockdown.

 

Nickie Aiken, Conservative MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, said: “Central London is usually first out of the traps after of a recession. But the conversations I’m having suggest this time it will be one of the last regions to recover — and that’s important because it is the engine of the whole UK economy.”

 

This is very worrying.

 

Revealed: The true scale of London's economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations

 

An Evening Standard investigation: Saving Central London

 

• 50,000 West End jobs at risk

• 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport

• 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July

• 11 London branches of Pret shut down

• Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Whar

 

Central London is facing the biggest economic crisis in generations with tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of businesses at risk of being wiped out in Britain’s most vibrant economic powerhouse.

 

Normally heaving streets from Mayfair in the west to Docklands in the east have been left virtually deserted by a devastating double whammy of “no shows” from commuters and high spending tourists.

 

An Evening Standard investigation has unearthed the true scale of the crisis.

 

Alarmed business leaders predict that 50,000 jobs in the vulnerable retail, tourism and hospitality sectors could disappear in the West End alone this year with total spending down by half — a loss of revenue of about £5 billion — as a direct result of the coronavirus lockdown.

 

Nickie Aiken, Conservative MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, said: “Central London is usually first out of the traps after of a recession. But the conversations I’m having suggest this time it will be one of the last regions to recover — and that’s important because it is the engine of the whole UK economy.”

 

Very worrying?

 

We don't know that much, if any, bad stuff will happen. It's all speculation at the moment.

Edited July 14, 20205 yr by blacksquare

The white collar firms that populate canary warf et al are all starting to look at lay-offs. Deloitte, globally, are starting lay-offs. Big4 firms tend to be a pretty good measure of the wider white collar economy in London as they literally depend on the sector for non-audit revenues. Big companies are looking to shed costs wherever possible.

 

 

Adding a no deal Brexit to this mess just is so reckless and unforgivable. This will kill people.

The white collar firms that populate canary warf et al are all starting to look at lay-offs. Deloitte, globally, are starting lay-offs. Big4 firms tend to be a pretty good measure of the wider white collar economy in London as they literally depend on the sector for non-audit revenues. Big companies are looking to shed costs wherever possible.

Adding a no deal Brexit to this mess just is so reckless and unforgivable. This will kill people.

 

Many businesses the big 4 support will have gone under or will be in the process of restructing and thus needing less support, so it's no surprise really.

 

We've got the economic fallout from Covid, which in turn will likely see an increase in crime and social problems. As well as that we have the undiscovered cost of Covid through people not being able to attend hospital for medical appointments.. it's completely crazy. I don't think there's any way any country across the world can win as by making one choice you sacrifice another.

Of course but that doesn't mean that Brexit cannot or shouldn't happen

 

No one is disputing that? But it is perfectly fair for us to hold those that lead us down this path to account.

Of course but to not understand how we got to this point and what made Brexit so attractive to not a minority but the majority of the British public is very Important imo.

 

Also many do still dispute its legitimacy. Only today I got a PM saying it wasn't legitimate.

Edited July 14, 20205 yr by Steve201

Of course but to not understand how we got to this point and what made Brexit so attractive to not a minority but the majority of the British public is very Important imo.

 

Also many do still dispute its legitimacy. Only today I got a PM saying it wasn't legitimate.

 

I’m guessing the massive lies and not so casual racism played quite a big part.

 

Unfortunately, I’m having rights stripped from me through no fault of my own. I’m done understanding why people voted for this, they now need to understand what they’ve done and own it.

It’s not a majority of the public tho. It’s a majority of the votes counted on the 23rd of June. Wasn’t even a majority of the registered electorate. Given the closeness of the vote and that repeatedly in the campaign every single representative of the Brexit side said we’d never leave the customs union or the single market - what is happening now is wholly on those enacting this ridiculous hard and damaging split, and the f***ing idiots without two functioning brain cells who just saw “no morez immigruntz” and voted for it thinking it would magically solve all of the problems that have heehaw to do with the EU or with immigrants and everything to do with the austerity and ideology of the very people they fell into line behind.

 

 

No absolving of liability at all. Every Brexit voter owns the mess their uninformed and racist and thick selves voted for.

 

 

This isn’t a hill you want to die on Steve

It’s not a majority of the public tho. It’s a majority of the votes counted on the 23rd of June. Wasn’t even a majority of the registered electorate. Given the closeness of the vote and that repeatedly in the campaign every single representative of the Brexit side said we’d never leave the customs union or the single market - what is happening now is wholly on those enacting this ridiculous hard and damaging split, and the f***ing idiots without two functioning brain cells who just saw “no morez immigruntz” and voted for it thinking it would magically solve all of the problems that have heehaw to do with the EU or with immigrants and everything to do with the austerity and ideology of the very people they fell into line behind.

No absolving of liability at all. Every Brexit voter owns the mess their uninformed and racist and thick selves voted for.

This isn’t a hill you want to die on Steve

 

From what I remember, George Osbourne/David Cameron (can't rememeber which - perhaps both) said a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market. That was tossed aside as "project fear" but that's now become project reality.

Both did, but they were on the remain side. A lot more people said it repeatedly and as you say we’re drowned out as project fear.

 

 

Project reality indeed

This is very worrying.

 

Revealed: The true scale of London's economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations

 

An Evening Standard investigation: Saving Central London

 

• 50,000 West End jobs at risk

• 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport

• 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July

• 11 London branches of Pret shut down

• Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Whar

 

Central London is facing the biggest economic crisis in generations with tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of businesses at risk of being wiped out in Britain’s most vibrant economic powerhouse.

 

Normally heaving streets from Mayfair in the west to Docklands in the east have been left virtually deserted by a devastating double whammy of “no shows” from commuters and high spending tourists.

 

An Evening Standard investigation has unearthed the true scale of the crisis.

 

Alarmed business leaders predict that 50,000 jobs in the vulnerable retail, tourism and hospitality sectors could disappear in the West End alone this year with total spending down by half — a loss of revenue of about £5 billion — as a direct result of the coronavirus lockdown.

 

Nickie Aiken, Conservative MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, said: “Central London is usually first out of the traps after of a recession. But the conversations I’m having suggest this time it will be one of the last regions to recover — and that’s important because it is the engine of the whole UK economy.”

 

We're going to need to review the benefits system, no way we can afford to support so many people not working. Probably best to scrap it.

 

We're going to need to review the benefits system, no way we can afford to support so many people not working. Probably best to scrap it.

 

I think in the autumn budget they might scrap NI charges for new hires. I suppose the one good thing about Brexit, is at least companies won't be as tempted to tap in to the European visa-less restrictions which might help with some unemployment issues and the temptation to look elsewhere for talent.

On Chris' post above, I'd be very surprised if only 7000 of 120000 are back at work in Canary Wharf. There may only be 7000 back at the site itself but I'd imagine the nature of most jobs there would mean that the vast majority of the others are working from home.

 

The Pret stat isn't particularly useful either, 14 opened in the past year so we're still up 3 year on year - and there's still hundreds left!

 

 

 

Re Rooney's post, it will be interesting to see if we do end up with more talented people from the UK being employed. I know in many areas where I work, we don't employ people from outside the UK because they're cheaper, it's just that we don't really have any viable UK alternatives as the skill sets simply aren't there.

On Chris' post above, I'd be very surprised if only 7000 of 120000 are back at work in Canary Wharf. There may only be 7000 back at the site itself but I'd imagine the nature of most jobs there would mean that the vast majority of the others are working from home.

 

The Pret stat isn't particularly useful either, 14 opened in the past year so we're still up 3 year on year - and there's still hundreds left!

Re Rooney's post, it will be interesting to see if we do end up with more talented people from the UK being employed. I know in many areas where I work, we don't employ people from outside the UK because they're cheaper, it's just that we don't really have any viable UK alternatives as the skill sets simply aren't there.

 

There's a mass market, especially with R&D where the skills are needed for lots of UK businesses but from an Academic standpoint we lack behind Europe, especially in Packaging, Sensory, Product Development, Project Management. All key areas which businesses need, but we don't study it in the UK so how can you expect people to have the right skills needed. The problem is to build that skills gap it's longer term.

 

Likewise a lot of these gaps can be plugged by encouraging people to take early retirement etc. - but I think after this economic crash we're probably on the last generation of people that had final salary pensions, so unless you work in the public sector there's going to be a huge hole the next time we have an economic crash as those people 50+ won't be able to afford to retire.

I’m guessing the massive lies and not so casual racism played quite a big part.

 

Unfortunately, I’m having rights stripped from me through no fault of my own. I’m done understanding why people voted for this, they now need to understand what they’ve done and own it.

 

All my point is is that it's now been accepted no matter how many bring up the issues of legitimacy. Many people have seen their towns change a lot over the past 30 years and the British media running stories highlighting the ridiculous laws the Eu passed on a daily basis most likely helped the pro Brexit vote.

 

I didn't vote for Brexit but I'm a realist and will not fight a battle you can't win.

All my point is is that it's now been accepted no matter how many bring up the issues of legitimacy. Many people have seen their towns change a lot over the past 30 years and the British media running stories highlighting the ridiculous laws the Eu passed on a daily basis most likely helped the pro Brexit vote.

 

I didn't vote for Brexit but I'm a realist and will not fight a battle you can't win.

And, of course, many of those laws were total fabrications with one B Johnson being one of the most enthusiastic fabricators.

All my point is is that it's now been accepted no matter how many bring up the issues of legitimacy. Many people have seen their towns change a lot over the past 30 years and the British media running stories highlighting the ridiculous laws the Eu passed on a daily basis most likely helped the pro Brexit vote.

 

I didn't vote for Brexit but I'm a realist and will not fight a battle you can't win.

 

And once again, I have said nothing about not accepting Brexit. I can accept it, still not be happy about it and still hold people to account over the outcome.

Just a polite reminder of the forum rules and to keep on-topic please.

 

This thread is mainly for discussing the (admittedly moribund) discussions on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

And, of course, many of those laws were total fabrications with one B Johnson being one of the most enthusiastic fabricators.

 

And I always thought the one about the straight bananas was def true :P